 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / October 2004Which split charge system? Which battery?
Hi all, I need to put a split charge system into my 90 (1992 200Tdi). I know I could take the Barney Bodge-It approach and buy a 40A relay and switch and wire it up manually but I want a fit it and forget it type approach. Froggs Island suggested either a National Luna Battery Management system (£170 ish) or a split charge diode pack (£60 ish) (its red and was shown in LRO mag a couple of months ago). Scorpion Racing also suggested the same red diode pack thing (http://scorpionracing.co.uk) under performace/electrical section. Question is which is best? The national Luna is more than twice the price and all i can see it gives you is a visual representation of battery status and a switch to link both batteries in parallel when winching. I dont have a winch so all I would get is a few LED's to look at and a system that doesnt use any power (??). However, i have read that the diode pack's take about 1 volt to run and thus the leisure battery is never fully charged... So, is this a problem for running things like laptops, battery chargers, fridges, lights, etc etc? if not then i'll save my money ang get the cheaper solutuion! Also, when it comes to leisure batteries are the Optima's (yellow top) really that good or could I use a deep cycle Oddesy or Exide Maxximma Deep Cycle with just as good results / reliability and save a bit more cash? Thanks Jon > Froggs Island suggested either a National Luna Battery Management > system (?170 ish) or a split charge diode pack (?60 ish) (its red and > was shown in LRO mag a couple of months ago). I got the national luna from south africa for about 80 quid Its a time delayed relay system with a nice display - its a good system but I wouln't pay 170 quid for it Have a look at electrical wiring products they have a boat switch which can be used and you can choose either battery But whats wrong with the relay system for a few quid from a caavan shop > Also, when it comes to leisure batteries are the Optima's (yellow top) > really that good or could I use a deep cycle Oddesy or Exide Maxximma > Deep Cycle with just as good results / reliability and save a bit more > cash? The others are pretty much as good and I believe they have 2 year warrenties on them compared to optimas Rich >> Froggs Island suggested either a National Luna Battery Management >> system (£170 ish) or a split charge diode pack (£60 ish) (its red and >> was shown in LRO mag a couple of months ago). > >I got the national luna from south africa for about 80 quid Did you buy off the national luna website or ring them up in SA? What about customs / taxes etc etc? Is it just a case of giving them your visa details and waiting for the courier man? I like the sound of buying direct and saving cash! >Its a time delayed relay system with a nice display - its a good system but >I wouln't pay 170 quid for it [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Rich > >I got the national luna from south africa for about 80 quid > > Did you buy off the national luna website or ring them up in SA? What > about customs / taxes etc etc? Is it just a case of giving them your > visa details and waiting for the courier man? I like the sound of > buying direct and saving cash! Tucked it under my arm and wandered thru airport security with a box of electronics and wires, didn't get stoppped until switzerland who still let me through with it. Try the safari centre in cape town as they have shipped stuff direct to the UK (including roof tents !) Rich I'm sure Halfords sell a split charge kit.....not very expensive either.  SignatureWolverine Big Red '93 110 CSW >Try the safari centre in cape town as they have shipped stuff direct to the >UK (including roof tents !) Ask them to send it plain wrapped, marked as a gift then send the receipt by letter. You could then try to avoid the duty/tax. I did not say this, by the way, and have no knowledge of the person currently using my 'puter... honest... ang on a mo, there's a knock at the door, coupla suited blokes... Won't be a mo... erm... > Hi all, > > I need to put a split charge system into my 90 (1992 200Tdi). I know > I could take the Barney Bodge-It approach and buy a 40A relay and > switch and wire it up manually but I want a fit it and forget it type > approach. You could do what I've done - get the 40A relay and feed the coil on it from the sensor wire on the alternator - the relay will only activate under the same conditions as the charge warning light going out. Seems to work pretty well really. P. SignatureThe email address above is real. http://www.geekstuff.tv/Landies/ >You could do what I've done - get the 40A relay and feed the coil on it from >the sensor wire on the alternator - the relay will only activate under the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Friend has the same system to charge the batteries for lighting and water pumping on his narrow boat. Seems to work fine. Richard >Also, when it comes to leisure batteries are the Optima's (yellow top) >really that good Yes. >or could I use a deep cycle Oddesy or Exide Maxximma >Deep Cycle with just as good results / reliability and save a bit more >cash? Exide are made by Optima and are just as good IMO. I will probably replace my 3 Yellow Top Optimas with tham when they die (I've had a good 4+ years from them - with some rather serious abuse, and they show no sign of losing their charge or reliability yet, though). SignatureSome Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/ I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info Try Towsure (caravan camping specialist) in Sheffield or a local motor factors. My local Romac store does a caravan split charging system for less than ?25 if I remember rightly. Stew. -- 1990 LR ninety (Jasmine) with bits on! 2002 Freelander Td4 ES (wifes) > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Thanks > Jon Found this website whilst looking for something else. This should take you straight to the split charger page http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/VWPweb2000/towing/towing.html Nigel SignatureLightweight 1979 nigelATleginDOTorg Google first ask later Then I got bored and googled some and found: Lead Acid Battery Split Charge Module for ?7.99 from http://www.maplin.co.uk Nigel SignatureLightweight 1979 nigelATleginDOTorg Google first ask later Funny, I looked at this yesterday in the maplin catalogue whilst I was supoposed to be designing some briudge foundations (funny how landy's take over your life!). Anyway, the description in the catalogue reads: "bla bla bla... The charging current is distributed in such a manner that a discharged battery is charged more intensively than a battery which is almost charged. ...bla bla bla" As I understand it the split charge system should "ideally" charge only the starter battrery and then drop over to the leisure battery when the voltage of the starter battery is at 13.2V. The maplin systems would seem to charge both at once but at different intensities? Also, I wonder how much power this system uses to run? Has anyone got one of these installed and could comment on it? Jon >Then I got bored and googled some and found: > >Lead Acid Battery Split Charge Module for £7.99 from >http://www.maplin.co.uk > >Nigel > Then I got bored and googled some and found: > > Lead Acid Battery Split Charge Module for £7.99 from > http://www.maplin.co.uk > > Nigel I've just bought one of these as I intend to fit a second battery to my 110 at some point. Just recently one of these modules went for £25 on ebay and there is another one up at the moment, people just don't check prices out before they buy do they. Now I've got the module and have had a chance to check it out I suspect it may be just two schottky diodes potted in a plastic box with attached wires. It certainly measures that way with voltage drop of under 0.1V between the + in and each of the alternator outs. Not sure how much schotkkys cost but it may be cheaper to just buy the diodes ad make it. Signaturesimon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk Simon Barr. '97 110 300Tdi. > Now I've got the module and have had a chance to check it out I suspect it > may be just two schottky diodes potted in a plastic box with attached wires. > It certainly measures that way with voltage drop of under 0.1V between the > + in and each of the alternator outs. 0.1 V sounds very very low for a schottky. What bias current were you using ? Sounds more like a little relay to me ! Steve >> Now I've got the module and have had a chance to check it out I suspect it >> may be just two schottky diodes potted in a plastic box with attached wires. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Steve ISTR that schotkkys vary from about 1V downwards depending on the current and the model of diode itself. I was using a fluke 77 on the diode test setting. I'm a bit (very!) rusty on my electronics and was hoping to dig out my copy of the art of electronics at the weekend to refresh my mind but it didn't happen. Signaturesimon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk Simon Barr. '97 110 300Tdi. > ISTR that schotkkys vary from about 1V downwards depending on the current > and the model of diode itself. I was using a fluke 77 on the diode test > setting. ANY silicon diode will have a Vf of 1V downwards, NO silicon junction diode can have a Vf of less than 0.6-0.7 and NO Schottky will have a Vf of less than about 0.2V ! So what the hell IS in the box ? Steve > ANY silicon diode will have a Vf of 1V downwards, NO silicon junction > diode can have a Vf of less than 0.6-0.7 and NO Schottky will have a Vf [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Steve Oh well, I was thinking it may just be an input that was split with a schottky in each output, I was thinking schotkky as they (can) have a lower forward voltage drop. Maybe that's why I don't work in electronics anymore :-) Signaturesimon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk Simon Barr. '97 110 300Tdi. What if you parallel these? I've always wondered if the dreaded voltage drop of diodes could be reduced in this way. >> ISTR that schotkkys vary from about 1V downwards depending on the current >> and the model of diode itself. I was using a fluke 77 on the diode test [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Steve > What if you parallel these? I've always wondered if the dreaded voltage > drop of diodes could be reduced in this way. Not really.The graph of forward voltage drop against current looks like a letter 'J'(its actually exponential) . Until there is a "reasonable" current flowing (relative to the maximum continuous current), the forward voltage could be said to be proportional to current, until the voltage reaches 0.6 volts. Since its proportional to current, even if you share it out, the total dissipation would remain the same or worsen when split over multiple diodes Steve Thanks. I should have figured that out myself. Each diode requires the same forward bias before it will conduct. Nothing like resistors in parallel ! >> What if you parallel these? I've always wondered if the dreaded voltage >> drop of diodes could be reduced in this way. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Steve > > ISTR that schotkkys vary from about 1V downwards depending on the current > > and the model of diode itself. I was using a fluke 77 on the diode test [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > So what the hell IS in the box ? It depends on the cost of the box. Probably a relay and the volt drop is caused by the thin wires used to connect it. If expensive then FETs could be used - Field Effect Transistors. However I have a similar 'black box' (and yes it is black) with one input for the alternator output and three outputs. One for the existing starter battery and two for aux. deep discharge batteries. But I have a Td5 Defender. From my previous experience of installing split charge devices, the alternator output is a medium thickness brown wire that goes from alternator direct to the battery. This wire is cut and connected to the split charge input and one o/p. Having received some help here, I've had a quick look under my Defender. The alternator o/p goes direct to the starter. It looks like I'm going to have to remove this wire from the starter and extend it to the split charge box and thence to the battery. But some have told me there are other problems. Reg. (electronics eng.) > It depends on the cost of the box. Probably a relay and the volt drop > is caused by the thin wires used to connect it. > > If expensive then FETs could be used - Field Effect Transistors. It's definitely some sort of semiconductor affair. I've had it rigged up with a battery charger and two sealed lead acid batteries in different states of discharge and it seems to work fine. You can only use it to charge batteries with though, you won't be able to pull any power from the alternator through the unit as its only rated upto 8A. Signaturesimon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk Simon Barr. '97 110 300Tdi. Hi Jon, I get the imprestion you are not into electrics, you don't need to go for the expencive type, just use a 40A relay and that will cost you about ?2 ish, if you send me a email I will send you a attatchment of a circuit of a split relay system. stevewright@ntlworld.com The theory about batterys, a battery will only charge if it requires it, ie if the battery is fully charged it take any current but if the battery is down it will take current, so the lower the state of the battery the more the current !so if both batterys are down they will both get a charge. Hope that makes sense, but these people like to make money and it only requires the simple one ! Steve > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Thanks > Jon > The theory about batterys, a battery will only charge if it requires it, ie > if the battery is fully charged it take any current but if the battery is > down it will take > current, so the lower the state of the battery the more the current !so if > both batterys are down they will both get a charge. Except you must limit the charging current, if the battery is demanding too much for its own good. Steve > > The theory about batterys, a battery will only charge if it requires it, ie > > if the battery is fully charged it take any current but if the battery is [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve There is no need to limit the current, The alternater will limit that ! Steve >just use a 40A relay and that will cost you about £2 ish If you have an 85A alternator? I use a 120A relay, seems fine - still only cost a couplaquid. SignatureSome Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/ I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.