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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / October 2004Lethal tyres on my SWB - any ideas?
I have a SWB Series IIa running 7.50 Kingpin remoulds on the back, 7.50 General SAGs on the front. Tyre pressures at about 28-30 all round, plenty of tread left on the Kingpins. However, in the wet it has a lethal tendancy for the back end to lose it on bends. Roundabouts in particular, the slightest provocation causes the back end to step out of line. In the dry, not a problem, you have to slam it round corners to get the back to shift, often lifting one wheel rather than slide. Anybody else have this problem with Kinpin remoulds? Anything I've missed on the rear suspension that could cause it? I had planned to buy another pair of SAG's for the back at some time in the near future, but right now I can't afford it. I thought about swapping fronts/rears, but I hate to think what would happen if I had the front end lose it instead. Alex > I have a SWB Series IIa running 7.50 Kingpin remoulds on the back, > 7.50 General SAGs on the front. Tyre pressures at about 28-30 all [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Alex Simplest thing is probably to try what you suggest - swap front and back. While I am not familiar with the tyre types, front end letting go is less likely to kill you than back letting go - under braking at least you tend to keep in a straight line, and under acceleration the rear wheels only will be driven most of the time, so if the SAGs are gripping better you will be better off. This is the sort of problem you can expect with different tyres front and rear, and is why it is generally considered preferable to have the same front and back. JD >I have a SWB Series IIa running 7.50 Kingpin remoulds on the back, >7.50 General SAGs on the front. Tyre pressures at about 28-30 all [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >you have to slam it round corners to get the back to shift, often >lifting one wheel rather than slide. flog 'em and get some decent radials. seriously though, you have agressive off-road treads, they're likely to be iffy on road in the wet. If you don't do a lot of off-road in sticky mud, you've probably got the wrong tyres on it. a good set of radial MT pattern would be better, perhaps, but even so, they're 80% off-road typically and so the on-road performance is sacrificed FWIW, sister's boyfriend runs his Rangie on Pirelli STs (80% ON-road), and claims not to have got it stuck on the farm yet. On my 110, I found Nankang wide conquerors were quite good. Pirelli AT grip like toffee on a blanket on road, but aren't really very good in mud. The Nankangs are both cheaper and have a slightly more open tread pattern, but are slightly less confidence-inspiring on wet tarmac. >> I have a SWB Series IIa running 7.50 Kingpin remoulds on the back, >> 7.50 General SAGs on the front. Tyre pressures at about 28-30 all [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Nankangs are both cheaper and have a slightly more open tread pattern, but > are slightly less confidence-inspiring on wet tarmac. I have the Nankang Wide Conquerors on my 109 Srs One and have failed to get stuck anywhere cept once when a tree jammed itself under the chassie. Good tyers and cheepish too with acceptable road manners at top speed (55mph!!!). >flog 'em and get some decent radials. My 110 came with some far-eastern cross-ply tyres labelled in hieroglyphics. After the machine has been standing for some time they assume a nice flat-spot where they touch the road. So we bounce along bump bump bump bump for about the first quarter mile. This helps shake off the surface rust and the leaves, but the spiders hang on fine. On roundabouts in the wet it's a question of really slowing right down and just ignoring the other drivers astern. I just thought this was a feature of 110's in the rain. It can be really wild at the point where the camber of the road changes suddenly. But if I did save up and buy radials, would I be able to move the steering wheel? Would I need to invest in power steering or a Charles Atlas course?  SignatureBill Holt >On roundabouts in the wet it's a question of really slowing right down >and just ignoring the other drivers astern. I just thought this was a >feature of 110's in the rain. It can be really wild at the point where >the camber of the road changes suddenly. The 110 on suitable radials, while it doesn't handle exactly like a sports car, will embarrass many ordinary saloons. as will a range rover or disco, and no surprise really, similar suspension, although the 110 is a bit stiffer and has less body roll as a result. >But if I did save up and buy radials, would I be able to move the >steering wheel? Would I need to invest in power steering or a Charles >Atlas course? wouldn't think so. You could fit PAS, of course :-) Twas Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:30:24 +0100 when Austin Shackles <austin@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> put finger to keyboard producing: >>On roundabouts in the wet it's a question of really slowing right down >>and just ignoring the other drivers astern. I just thought this was a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >wouldn't think so. You could fit PAS, of course :-) My old 110 didn't have PAS and came with michelin xzy's on (radial truck tyres) and I could steer lock to lock one handed with a steering knob fitted, that includes while parking. At the time I was stronger than the aaaverage bear mind... Regards. Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.) Signature_________________________________________ www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk 1984 110 CSW 2.5(na)D (3,000 rivets flying in close formation) _________________________________________ >>On roundabouts in the wet it's a question of really slowing right down >>and just ignoring the other drivers astern. I just thought this was a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >wouldn't think so. You could fit PAS, of course :-) Fitting Trac Edges over Kingpins and having the swivels reshimmed made a massive difference to my Series 2. I'd say the steering was no heavier either at rest or moving, but cornering is a far less approximate affair! SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt" '03 Volvo V70 My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com So Bill Holt was, like > > But if I did save up and buy radials, would I be able to move the > steering wheel? Yes. I changed from 205 cross-plies to 235/85 radials on the S2a, and I can still steer it fine. No power steering or Charles Atlas involvement. Mind you, I am incredibly butch <cough> ;-) SignatureRich Series 2a RR 4.6 V8 trialler dog, wife, kids, whatever >>I have a SWB Series IIa running 7.50 Kingpin remoulds on the back, >>7.50 General SAGs on the front. Tyre pressures at about 28-30 all [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >iffy on road in the wet. If you don't do a lot of off-road in sticky mud, >you've probably got the wrong tyres on it. Which is why I am puzzled. The SAG's on the front are a off-road tyre, while the Kinpins are a road-bias tyre. Theyre much the same as the old Avon Rangemasters that used to be OEM on Series landrovers. I'd expect the off-road tyres to lose grip rather than the road-bais tyre, but it's the back that loses it, despite being a road tyre. Alex We used to have some firestone SAT's on a series II and they were lethal on a wet road. Once on a roundabout at normal speed in town I ended up facing the wrong way, thank God we never hit anyone. On a series III we used to have we had Avon Rangers which were better but not great, then we changed for BFG All Terrain T/A which are superb. We also have them on a V8 90 now for road use but change the wheels over to mud terrains to go off roading. Even so, they are still slippery on a wet road. Its all a compromise and you have to drive within the limits of the tyre. Richard >I have a SWB Series IIa running 7.50 Kingpin remoulds on the back, > 7.50 General SAGs on the front. Tyre pressures at about 28-30 all [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Alex Twas Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:48:54 GMT when Alex <nospam.alex@cbmsys.co.uk> put finger to keyboard producing: >I have a SWB Series IIa running 7.50 Kingpin remoulds on the back, >7.50 General SAGs on the front. Tyre pressures at about 28-30 all [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Alex I have these on my 110 http://members.lycos.co.uk/markvarley/IMAGES/landrover/P1273213a.jpg they are cross plies and they are very good off-road in the mud, but on a wet road that back end comes out very easily, I simply drive as appropriate but I will be replacing them with michelin XZY's if I can afford it when the time comes, I'm a big fan of XZY (random google for michelin XZY - http://www.1010tires.com/Michelin_XZY_tires.html ). Regards. Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.) Signature_________________________________________ www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk 1984 110 CSW 2.5(na)D (3,000 rivets flying in close formation) _________________________________________ >Twas Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:48:54 GMT when Alex ><nospam.alex@cbmsys.co.uk> put finger to keyboard producing: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >afford it when the time comes, I'm a big fan of XZY (random google for >michelin XZY - http://www.1010tires.com/Michelin_XZY_tires.html ). What are they? They look like a SAT/SAG pattern tyre? They look suspiciously like a tyre my mate has on his IIa, some odd chinese make, marked "Security" Alex > What are they? They look like a SAT/SAG pattern tyre? They look > suspiciously like a tyre my mate has on his IIa, some odd chinese > make, marked "Security" The Security branded tyres on my Hilux carry an E4 marking which implies they originate in the Netherlands. SignatureEMB change two to the number to reply > I have a SWB Series IIa running 7.50 Kingpin remoulds on the back, > 7.50 General SAGs on the front. Tyre pressures at about 28-30 all [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Alex Try putting the SAGs on the bag just in case this helps but realistically neither of these tyres are going to do that well on a wet road at any speed!! Best bet would be to switch to radial tyres - the crossplies have a tendancy to 'tuck under' when cornering. Radials are less prone to this as the softer sidewalls allow for the tyre wall to bulge out keeping the whole tread on the road rather than just the one edge. If you go for a decent quality MT ( eg. BFG, GoodYear ) then they will handle offroad as you would expect your SAGs to and would more than cope with the road speeds of a LR. If on road handling is your priority move away from mud tyres altogether - and start to look at your suspension - rusted up leaves don't lend themselves to giving any tyre a fighting chance! David LLAMA 4x4 www.llama4x4.co.uk are you entirely sure you have radials all round . it sounds to me like you have KINGPIN radials and SAG are possibly crossply? , if so no wonder they skid all over place and totally illegal to use that way . . you should have same tyres all round . i use 7.50x16 kingpin mudtrack on my defender and i can pretty much throw it around all over the place without losing traction . >are you entirely sure you have radials all round . > it sounds to me like you have KINGPIN radials and SAG are possibly crossply? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >i use 7.50x16 kingpin mudtrack on my defender and i can pretty much throw it >around all over the place without losing traction . Even if you are right about the Kingpin's being radial, there is nothing illegal about it. Quoting from Dunlop website (although there are many other references out there to corroborate it) "Tyres of different types must not be fitted to opposite wheels of the vehicle (for example, radial-ply tyres must not be fitted to a wheel on the same axle as wheels already fitted with cross-ply tyres and vice versa, and a two-axle vehicle with single rear wheels must not have radial ply tyres on the front axle if cross ply tyres are fitted to the rear axle). " SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt" '03 Volvo V70 My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com I had no-name-special remoulds on the rear of my RRC and Michelin M-something-or-other on the front and managed to spin it through 360 deg one wet day. Very entertaining . . . . . in hindsight, especially as I gracefully negotiated a right bend and oncoming traffic whilst executing said pirouette. I quickly bought another pair of Michelins and a replacement for the wheel that stopped the girations by smashing into the curb. All this started at sub 30mph Richard >>are you entirely sure you have radials all round . >> it sounds to me like you have KINGPIN radials and SAG are possibly crossply? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Even if you are right about the Kingpin's being radial, there is >nothing illegal about it. It is illegal to fit X-plys on the rear and radials on the front, it must be the other way round. Alex >are you entirely sure you have radials all round . > it sounds to me like you have KINGPIN radials and SAG are possibly crossply? >, if so no wonder they skid all over place and totally illegal to use that way >. > . > you should have same tyres all round . They're X-plys all round. Alex >>are you entirely sure you have radials all round . >> it sounds to me like you have KINGPIN radials and SAG are possibly crossply? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >They're X-plys all round. the 110 on Colway radial AT remoulds handled nicely. But I still rate the Nankang Wide Conqueror as a good compromise all-round tyre, for reasonable money. set of 4 in 31x10.5R15 size came to about 250 quid fitted - 235/85R16 are about the same price. |
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