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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / October 2004LR3 Opinions.
Has anybody driven this vehicle yet? Or at least had the chance to examine the interior closely? How does it compare to the Discovery? We're looking at the Volkswagen Toureag V8 and the Volvo XC90 T6, and had skipped LR because we found the Disco unappealing. I'm wondering if the LR3 merits a trip to the dealer. Also, I notice that Land Rover's website only lists the 4.4 litre V8 powered model. Wasn't there a six-cylinder coming too? We're in North America so the diesel variants of Europe never make it here. Steve Grauman > Has anybody driven this vehicle yet? Or at least had the chance to > examine the interior closely? How does it compare to the Discovery? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > there a six-cylinder coming too? We're in North America so the diesel > variants of Europe never make it here. Steve Grauman It's sad IMHO that you consider the 3 vehicles to be in the same class. I guess that's marketing for you though - I'm not sure whose though ! The toerag and the vulva are both variants of a car with slightly raised suspension and 4 wheel drive added. If that's what you want then you should be looking at Freelanders not a Discovery 3. The Discovery 3 (or LR3 as the yanks are calling it) is an extremely capable vehicle that matches exceptional off road ability with comfort and luxury. The interior is OK for a modern car although I'm not keen on the body styling but as you are considering a vulva I guess body styling isn't high on your list of priorities :-) Personally I wouldn't touch one of the new Discoveries with a barge pole until it's at least a year further down the line in "customer led development". By that time they should have all the bugs ironed out of it. Very few people in the UK have road tested the Disco 3, primarily because they've been having problems keeping one of them running for long enough. The Land Rover Experience off road training on the vehicle has, according to rumour, been postponed and there were alledgedly 6 broken down Disco 3s scattered between Solihull and Glasgow last week when they tried to get a working one up to Scotland for a dealer launch. The reasoning behind the LR3 badge in the US is that the Discovery name has a bit of a bad reputation so the marketing chaps at Solihull thought it a good wheeze to launch it as the LR3 on the grounds that the yanks wouldn't figure out it was a Discovery until after they'd bought it ! It seems that buying a "new" car these days is like buying new major versions of computer software - best to wait for V3.11 to come along before you upgrade from V2.35. If you can afford one, look at the Range Rover, it's a well put together vehicle with a good reliablity record. If you can't afford a Range Rover, take a look at a Subaru Legacy Outback (if you can get them in the USA ???). It's a bit of a wolf in sheeps clothing both in on road and off road performance. If you want a superb off roader with a reasonable level of comfort then take another look at the Disco 2. There should be some good deals aroudn on these as the "outgoing" model. cheers Dave W. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/ > > Has anybody driven this vehicle yet? Or at least had the chance to > > examine the interior closely? How does it compare to the Discovery? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > styling but as you are considering a vulva I guess body styling isn't > high on your list of priorities :-) <SNIP> > cheers > > Dave W. > http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/ Damn are you hard on the other brands ! I agree with you on the XC90 - although I find it good looking. It's hardly a SUV, and not at all an OffRoader. The Touareg is more a climber than the Volvo (vulva and toerag ! LOL) but IMO does not worth the money. It already has seen some reliability problems. The Disco 3 (or LR3 like the guys at the other side of the pond say) looks a lot better in terms of Off Road capacities, according to every story that I'v read. Some say it can beat a Defender. (I'll have to say don't quote me on this one...) I only had a chance to sit in a HSE 7-Seater, so I don't know for the reliability, but there sure is some space for the wife and kids. But having had a 95' range P38, I'd be cautious with a brand new model and reliability. What you say here is appaling. So, Steve, what is the main use you'll have with this new vehicle ? In the price range, you have a large choice, inlcuding the AUDI Allroad, the Grand Cherokee, the New Range Rover (you can find some used...) and the needs you have should help you sort the car. For the Offroad, I'd say LR3 or grand Cherokee. If it's only to climb some mud, the Allroad and XC90 should do. If you can gather the money, the New Range is a blast, and if you have even more money, you can buy the former Range!! The V6 for the LR3 is the diesel engine. Stay away from the Tuareg for at least a year. They'll probably have a new version very quickly, that will be less prone to reliabilty problems. HTH -- Henry! -- "Pleasure in a thing of beauty is the essence of a good life." Zino Davidoff >So, Steve, what is the main use you'll have with this new vehicle ? It's really for my mother. She needs something large enough to haul groceries in and to (occasionally) be used to take our 2 dogs. I had her look at wagons (the Audi Allroad and A4 and A6 Avant, Volvo S60 T5, BMW 3 and 5 series wagons...) but she likes the higher seating position of the SUVs. It doesn't NEED to be a super-off roader but we want it to be competant enough for minor off-pavement stints. However we do have a 2003 4Runner that's more than competant off-road for when we need it. She currently has a Lexus RX300 and isn't real keen on the newer RX330, and since the Toyota Highlander is essentially the same vehicle, we aren't bothering with it. She doesn't want a second 4Runner (she thinks we should vary a little bit) and the Sequioa is to large for her. And she didn't like the new BMW X3 or X5 very much, nor the Chevy Trailblazer/GMC Envoy, nor the Subaru Forester XT. So far she really likes the Cayenne/Toureag the best, with the XC90 a close second. We are going tomorrow to test drive a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee (with the Hemi!) and to find out when the all-new 2005 Pathfinders will arrive so we can see one in "the flesh". I was just wondering if we should bother to look at the LR3 while we're at the auto-mall. Steve Grauman >So far she really >likes the Cayenne/Toureag the best, I have to admit, that if I had unlimited funds, I'd buy a Cayenne (with sports tuning pack) just for the hell of it. I could put it in the garage alongside the new Rangie and then decide which one to go and play in. meanwhile, back in the real world... >I have to admit, that if I had unlimited funds, I'd buy a Cayenne (with >sports tuning pack) just for the hell of it. It's a remarkablly competant vehicle, on road and off. You can view some very basic development films here: http://content3.us.porsche.com/prod/cayenne/cayenne_common.nsf/usaenglish/ cayenne_gallery_films?OpenDocument&sc=cayenneturbo.nsf Steve Grauman >>I have to admit, that if I had unlimited funds, I'd buy a Cayenne (with >>sports tuning pack) just for the hell of it. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >cayenne_gallery_films?OpenDocument&sc=cayenneturbo.nsf >Steve Grauman I've bene reading about it in the Car magazine among others. Apparently you can go on a desert-off-roading holiday in saudi, and play with cayennes in the sand dunes... This of course costs, but not stupid money. I presume Porsche hope that you'll buy one thereafter. >Apparently you >can go on a desert-off-roading holiday in saudi, and play with cayennes in >the sand dunes I'm a Porsche enthusiast so I read quite a bit about it. They did extensive sand testing with it before it was finalized for production, and it's apparently quite good. It also seems very competant to handle rocky terrain and just about anything else. I'd venture to say it's 85% as competant as a Disco off-road, and 200% as competant ON road. Equipped with the air-suspension it's capable of lapping sections of the Nurburgring faster than many sports sedans and coupes, especially the 450 horsepower Cayenne Turbo. Steve Grauman I saw this thing with a Porsche badge claiming to be a 4WD in a car park yesterday. It struck me as a posers car, whatever its capabilities, because it was too smart, and not at all utilitarian, Totally impractical if you ask me, could it carry a stuffed camel to the sheikhs banquet or Colonel Gadaffi's tent in the back ? I am sure a series Landie could lap anything at the nurburgring if you strapped a rocket to the back, but that would be equally impractical (or would it?)  Signature?T L'autisme c'est moi "Space folds, and folded space bends, and bent folded space contracts and expands unevenly in every way unconcievable except to someone who does not believe in the laws of mathematics" > >Apparently you > >can go on a desert-off-roading holiday in saudi, and play with cayennes in [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > and coupes, especially the 450 horsepower Cayenne Turbo. > Steve Grauman >> I have to admit, that if I had unlimited funds, I'd buy a Cayenne >> (with sports tuning pack) just for the hell of it. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > cayenne_gallery_films?OpenDocument&sc=cayenneturbo.nsf > Steve Grauman Have they any intention of fixing the headlight mountings so they don't blind drivers they are following! SignatureUR SHGb02+14 &ICMFP If at first you don't succeed, maybe skydiving's not for you! LR3. Given the prices, you'd better go for a vehicle with real OffRoad capacities, along good comfort on the tarmac. Plenty of space, and the trunk is so big you can fit two grown men. But there also is the new Lexus RX400h, with hybrid engine. Supposed to be far better than the 300 or 330. -- Henry! -- "Pleasure in a thing of beauty is the essence of a good life." Zino Davidoff > >So, Steve, what is the main use you'll have with this new vehicle ? > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > at the auto-mall. > Steve Grauman Your really in a different world to me, because if it was made after 1984 and if it has a cat then it is not and never will be a vehicle for me, they are all crap be they rolls royce, ferrari or whatever, the lot of them. My series 3 can haul groceries and a lot more it can haul any of that modern crap out of a ditch as well. SignatureLarry Series 3 rust and holes > >So, Steve, what is the main use you'll have with this new vehicle ? > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > at the auto-mall. > Steve Grauman >Your really in a different world to me, because if it was made after 1984 >and if it has a cat then it is not and never will be a vehicle for me, they >are all crap be they rolls royce, ferrari or whatever, the lot of them A pretty bold statement. Frankly I believe the more modern Defender 90 and 110 to be Land Rover's best vehicles. All the neccesary updates of today combined with all the proven hardware of the past. The last 2 generations of Range Rover have been gorgeous, competant vehicles. But the most recent version is the only one I'd have any confidence in, build-wise. Steve Grauman I just do not like the unreliability of complex systems which involve engine management and the like. Take Ferrari, no-one can service them these days, you plug them into the central diagnostic computer, not the way I want to go. I want something simple mechanically, that will go and keep on going, that can be fixed with all manner of bodged temporary repairs when the going gets rough to get you out of trouble. I am not looking for high performance, comfort even, or style, a vintage landie has all the style I need. SignatureLarry Series 3 rust and holes > A pretty bold statement. Frankly I believe the more modern Defender 90 and 110 > to be Land Rover's best vehicles. All the neccesary updates of today combined > with all the proven hardware of the past. The last 2 generations of Range Rover > have been gorgeous, competant vehicles. But the most recent version is the only > one I'd have any confidence in, build-wise. > Steve Grauman >The toerag and the vulva are both variants of a car with slightly raised >suspension and 4 wheel drive added. WRT the touareg, I reckon you're talking bollox. It's not in the same league as the LR, necessarily, but it isn't just a jacked up saloon with 4x4 either. It and the Porsche Cayenne (same platform) are in fact apparently seriously capable vehicles. Not to my tatse, admittedly... and in fact, I saw an volvo XC today, and it's got a very uncluttered underside and summat like 8" ground clearance, which is no less than the diff clearance on a typical live-axle LR. I reckon the touareg is about in the same league as the latest Range Rover, meself. Mind, reading the report on the LR3 in LROI recently, it's one hellova piece of kit, provided all those electronics keep working. Not sure they've done a V6 petrol yet. There might be plans for one. The V6 I've heard about is the diesel one. Well there's capable vehicles and theres capable vehicles, I am sure an old Fergie tractor can go places on surfaces even a series landie cannot, Its all horses for courses. As for longevity and staying powere of these newer 4x4's only time will tell, but as far as old landies go, you see more of them about than any other vehicle of there age, and as everyday transport as well, not cosseted classics. SignatureLarry Series 3 rust and holes > WRT the touareg, I reckon you're talking bollox. It's not in the same > league as the LR, necessarily, but it isn't just a jacked up saloon with 4x4 [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Not sure they've done a V6 petrol yet. There might be plans for one. The > V6 I've heard about is the diesel one. >>The toerag and the vulva are both variants of a car with slightly raised >>suspension and 4 wheel drive added. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >either. It and the Porsche Cayenne (same platform) are in fact apparently >seriously capable vehicles. Not to my tatse, admittedly... Toerag is allegedly very good off-road, and has options for locking axle diffs IIRC. Recently went round an off-road course at Slaley Hall. Pretty dry and tame and it was only on the last climb that I noticed that the driver hadn't even locked the diff on the 110. The tyres were about bald too, and it didn't struggle. However Porsche had used the course to host an event for potential Cayenne customers. The course had, apparently, been much wetter and the Cayenne walked round, albeit on ATish tyres rather than road ones. The instructor I was with was very impressed with it in the hands of the Porsche demo driver. Oh, and apparently it was also completely buggered bodywork wise by the end of the event! The Volvo seems pretty pointless to me (and I like Volvos). It's a very well constructed vehicle and has all the brilliant ergonomics that my V70 has. But I don't see why it is useful to anyone over the AWD version of the V70. Each to his own, and the important thing is for buyers not to kid themselves about their off-road aspirations. If you want a 'style' SUV then the last Discovery was probably not the best vehicle to own. SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt" '03 Volvo V70 My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com >>The toerag and the vulva are both variants of a car with slightly >>raised suspension and 4 wheel drive added. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > fact apparently seriously capable vehicles. Not to my tatse, > admittedly... We'll have to agree to disagree on that one then although me talking bollox is not a completely alien concept :-) By some HUGE coincidence I was watching a home video this evening taken on some green lanes in the Lake District last weekend. For no reason other than it was a "drive your daily transport" kind of a weekend there were 5 vehicles.... A VW Touareg, a Mercedes M Class, A Jeep Grannd Cherokee (old style) a Foers Ibex and a 90. When watching all of them descending a pitifully easy series of rock steps the Touareg and the M class were both very similar in the way they handled. Very stiff suspension leading to the constant lifting of wheels and horrible grating sounds as the centre of the vehicle grounded out on every step. No matter what line they took or how they drove it (and there was a LOT of pissing about piling up rocks and so on) they were getting hung up on every step. The Jeep, the Ibex and the 90 drove down it without even thinking about it. These steps weren't a lot worse than the ones you'd get on a flight of stairs BTW. Unfortunately there wasn't a Porsche or a Volvo there to compare them with. To my mind there are a whole raft of cars that have 4wd capability, including the Freelander, the Touareg and the Cayenne. They are great on wet grass but off roaders thay ain't. Cars with 4wd is what they are and cars with 4wd is all they will ever be. The upside of this is that they are great on the road (compared to any of my vehicles anyway)... the downside being they are "limited" on the road. A racing slick has almost all the same properties as a mud tyre, it's round, black, has a hole in the middle etc... but I know which I'd rather have in the middle of a mud run ! The only people who would describe any of these vehicles as "seriously capable vehicles" are those selling them or those who have bought them. Unless, of course, they are referring to their ability to climb kerbs or cross grass verges. It is probably also fair to point out that the Ibex driver managed to put his vehicle on it's side on the day but he claimed to have fallen asleep waiting for the VW and the Merc to inch their way down the gravel track and tried a more "interesting" approach to relieve the boredom :-) ps If any Touareg drivers out there fancy competing against me at the next club trial or the next challenge event (Ireland, weekend after next) feel free to try and make me eat my words ! Anyway, what was the original question again ??? cheers Dave W. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/ >>> The toerag and the vulva are both variants of a car with slightly >>> raised suspension and 4 wheel drive added. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> saloon with 4x4 either. It and the Porsche Cayenne (same platform) >> are in fact apparently seriously capable vehicles. Not to my tatse, >> admittedly... > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > on wet grass but off roaders thay ain't. Cars with 4wd is what they > are and cars with 4wd is all they will ever be. The upside of this is > that they are great on the road (compared to any of my vehicles > anyway)... the downside being they are "limited" on the road. A [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > capable vehicles" are those selling them or those who have bought > them. Unless, of course, they are referring to their ability to climb > kerbs or cross grass verges. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > next club trial or the next challenge event (Ireland, weekend after > next) feel free to try and make me eat my words ! The point is that 99.9% of people have absolutely no intention of putting their vehicle through a club trial though they might expect to complete regular farm work or site work perhaps. For this kind of work the Volvo Mercedes and VW are certainly capable as long as their drivers avoid places where clearance could be an issue. This is easily done. Good drivers always drive their Land Rover or any vehicle *around* an obsticle not through it, when there is a choice, as there mostly always is. Huw >The toerag and the vulva are both variants of a car with slightly raised >suspension and 4 wheel drive added That's actually not entirely true. The Volvo is based on the S80 car platform but the Toureag's chassis is unique and not VW or Audi car based. It's also got a low range transfer case which the Volvo and other car-based SUVs lack. I've seen some impressive off-road test video of the Toureag, although off-road ability isn't our primary concern. >The Discovery 3 (or >LR3 as the yanks are calling it) is an extremely capable vehicle that >matches exceptional off road ability with comfort and luxury I'm not sure that it's a match for the LR, but you might be surprised what the Toureag/Cayenne are capable of off-road. But as I said, this isn't our primary concern. We have a year-old 4Runner here which is more than competant for the off-roading we do. >I'm not keen on the body >styling but as you are considering a vulva I guess body styling isn't >high on your list of priorities :-) To each his own. The XC90 isn't horrible looking. >Personally I wouldn't touch one of the new Discoveries with a barge pole >until it's at least a year further down the line in "customer led >development". I tend to agree. We knew people with Discos that had endless problems. I was hoping that the LR3 would be better, considering as it was designed under Ford's ownership...I guess not. >If you can't afford a Range Rover, >take a look at a Subaru Legacy Outback (if you can get them in the USA ???). Yes, we have them here. And we've looked at the brand new Legacy and Outback as well as the Forester XT. Nice enough, I guess. But not nearly the same quality level as the VW. Plus they lack the higher seating position. >It's a bit of a wolf in sheeps clothing both in on road and off road >performance Considering that those are cars, not SUVs and that they lack high ground clearence and low-range transfer cases I'm not sure why you think they'd be any better off road than the VW or Volvo. >If you want a superb off roader with a reasonable level of >comfort then take another look at the Disco 2. No thanks. If we wanted something large and unreliable there are plenty of less expensive options. Steve Grauman > >If you want a superb off roader with a reasonable level of > >comfort then take another look at the Disco 2. > > No thanks. If we wanted something large and unreliable there are plenty of less expensive options. My wife said something similar about me the other day. Cutting. Rich >My wife said something similar about me the other day. Cutting. I dread the day our respective partners all decide to form a fringe organisation at Billing* [* or any other show - we're thinking of not doing Billing next year] SignatureSome Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/ I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info >Subject: Re: LR3 Opinions. >From: Mother "@{mother} @"@101fc.net >Date: 15/10/2004 16:08 GMT <snip>[* or any other show - we're thinking of not doing Billing next year] Why is that Martyn? Steve. Suffolk. remove 'knujon' to e-mail ><snip>[* or any other show - we're thinking of not doing Billing next year] > >Why is that Martyn? I've long since lost my enthusiasm for 'just looking at Landies' and tend to go to the shows to meet up with 'people'. Most of the people I know and want to meet <g> go to other shows which aren't as much of a circus, with friendlier organisers, more space, better safety and adequate security. I sort of keep getting the feeling that Billing is determined to filtch as much from my pockets as possible whilst giving me progressively less in return compared to other shows. Apart from Alex and Andy (ruftraks) - who only do Billing to my knowledge - we have a far nicer time elsewhere and just don't know whether we can endure another Billing for the limited gain of meeting up with a few who don't do the other shows. Mind, Alex owes me a drink - so my plans may change ;-) SignatureSome Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/ I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info >Subject: Re: LR3 Opinions. >From: Mother "@{mother} @"@101fc.net >Date: 15/10/2004 18:26 GMT <snip> we have a far nicer time elsewhere and just don't know >whether we can endure another Billing for the limited gain of meeting >up with a few who don't do the other shows. Hmmmm - I think you just about summed up my own views nicely too :-) Steve. Suffolk. remove 'knujon' to e-mail >><snip>[* or any other show - we're thinking of not doing Billing next year] >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Mind, Alex owes me a drink - so my plans may change ;-) I was at Peterboro. You weren't about when I called at the rubber rope stand. Usually P'boro and Billing I go to. Mind you, I may start travelling to the other ones once I get my SWB camperised Alex >Usually P'boro and Billing I go to. Mind you, I may start travelling >to the other ones once I get my SWB camperised I can recommend LRW at Eastnor Castle - not too fussy, they'd probably even let you in... SignatureSome Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/ I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info >>Usually P'boro and Billing I go to. Mind you, I may start travelling >>to the other ones once I get my SWB camperised > >I can recommend LRW at Eastnor Castle - not too fussy, they'd probably >even let you in... Cheeky bugger. Get to bed. Alex >>Usually P'boro and Billing I go to. Mind you, I may start travelling >>to the other ones once I get my SWB camperised > >I can recommend LRW at Eastnor Castle - not too fussy, they'd probably >even let you in... I might even get there next year - half these shows are a fecking long way from here, and Eastnor is about the nearest. >I might even get there next year - half these shows are a fecking long way >from here, and Eastnor is about the nearest. How long is the drive from one end of England across to the other? I'm just curious. Steve Grauman >How long is the drive from one end of England across to the other? I'm just >curious. Depends... Southend-on-Sea to Bristol is about 170 miles Great Yarmouth to Carmarthen is more like 350 miles Also depends upon whether you recognise that Carmarthen isn't in England ;-) SignatureSome Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/ I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info So Mother" <"@ {mother} @ was, like >> How long is the drive from one end of England across to the other? >> I'm just curious. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Also depends upon whether you recognise that Carmarthen isn't in > England ;-) Lowestoft to St Davids (about as far West as you get in Wales) is 392 miles by road. As Martyn says, that's the Welsh bit of England ;-) SignatureRich Series 2a RR 4.6 V8 trialler dog, wife, kids, whatever >As Martyn says, that's the Welsh bit of England ;-) Why do I feel there may be some need to doth flamesuits soon? >>As Martyn says, that's the Welsh bit of England ;-) > >Why do I feel there may be some need to doth flamesuits soon? 218 miles from here to the end of the motorway by peterboro'. Billing is prolly a bit nearer, but not a lot. makes it a long journey for a day trip - not so bad if you camp and attend for 2 or more days, but then again, that costs in itself. >218 miles from here to the end of the motorway by peterboro'. Billing is >prolly a bit nearer, but not a lot. makes it a long journey for a day trip >- not so bad if you camp and attend for 2 or more days, but then again, that >costs in itself. Austin, IIRC you live near Lampeter? Eastnor Castle is a couple of miles north of Ledbury. Total distance around 90 miles. All you need to do is book the time and start saving for the fuel (you have around 8 months). I'll happily make you a member of the 101 club for the duration of the show, so it'll cost you nout to get in. Charlotte always takes far too much food and we generally have a good supply of falling-over water. So, what fecking excuse do you think you can come up with fer not goin' now? >>218 miles from here to the end of the motorway by peterboro'. Billing is >>prolly a bit nearer, but not a lot. makes it a long journey for a day trip [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >So, what fecking excuse do you think you can come up with fer not >goin' now? didn't it clash with something else, this year? I was planning on going, but there was some reason I didn't. Might have been harchery. if it doesn't clash, I'll be more likely to show up there than at the more distant places. So Mother" <"@ {m} @ was, like > Austin, IIRC you live near Lampeter? Eastnor Castle is a couple of > miles north of Ledbury. Total distance around 90 miles. All you need > to do is book the time and start saving for the fuel (you have around > 8 months). I'll happily make you a member of the 101 club for the > duration of the show, so it'll cost you nout to get in. What are the dates for the next Eastnor? It's closer to me than I thought. SignatureRich Series 2a RR 4.6 V8 trialler dog, wife, kids, whatever >What are the dates for the next Eastnor? It's closer to me than I thought. I'm not sure as yet, prolly same(ish) time in June. It's worth going - not too heavy and a good croud. So Mother" <"@ {m} @ was, like >> What are the dates for the next Eastnor? It's closer to me than I >> thought. > > I'm not sure as yet, prolly same(ish) time in June. > > It's worth going - not too heavy and a good croud. Right, that's a date then. Thanks. SignatureRich Series 2a RR 4.6 V8 trialler dog, wife, kids, whatever >> It's worth going - not too heavy and a good croud. > >Right, that's a date then. Thanks. Smashing, be good to see you in the North East corner of the ground. (Where we usually 'claim' our sacred 101 club pitch!) Try an drag that lazy git Shackles down with you :-) So Mother" <"@ {m} @ was, like >>> It's worth going - not too heavy and a good croud. >> >> Right, that's a date then. Thanks. > > Smashing, be good to see you in the North East corner of the ground. But I'm not newly admitted to the LR fraternity - I've been doing this for ages. By next May I should be a master at it. > (Where we usually 'claim' our sacred 101 club pitch!) > > Try an drag that lazy git Shackles down with you :-) I'll pick him up on the way, like they used to do with mail bags when British Rail still operated. I'll try to get him to lose the tea-cosy, though. SignatureRich Series 2a RR 4.6 V8 trialler dog, wife, kids, whatever >> Smashing, be good to see you in the North East corner of the ground. > >But I'm not newly admitted to the LR fraternity - I've been doing this for >ages. By next May I should be a master at it. When you're a past master you can comfortably sit in our NE corner, til then, you'll have to bring your own toast like the rest... The 101 club's quite laid back though, we won't make you stand on ceremony, any leaking landie will do... >> Try an drag that lazy git Shackles down with you :-) > >I'll pick him up on the way, like they used to do with mail bags when >British Rail still operated. I'll try to get him to lose the tea-cosy, >though. Mind, the hook will have to grab summat - tea cosy seems less painful than... erm... >>> Smashing, be good to see you in the North East corner of the ground. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Mind, the hook will have to grab summat - tea cosy seems less painful >than... erm... watch it... I'll hope to bring the disco, if it's still working by then. Just worked out that I've done a bit over 4000 miles since the end of August. >Subject: Re: LR3 Opinions. >From: Mother "@{m} @"@101fc.net >Date: 19/10/2004 20:50 GMT >When you're a past master you can comfortably sit in our NE corner, >til then, you'll have to bring your own toast like the rest... Tut tut tut ;-) Steve. Suffolk. remove 'knujon' to e-mail >Why do I feel there may be some need to doth flamesuits soon? I'm not trying to start a flame-thread. Just asking... Steve Grauman >>Why do I feel there may be some need to doth flamesuits soon? > >I'm not trying to start a flame-thread. Just asking... I think it'd help if you read the context within which I made the comment, and learn not to take anything I say too seriously. >> Why do I feel there may be some need to doth flamesuits soon? > > I'm not trying to start a flame-thread. Just asking... > Steve Grauman They all say that! SignatureUR SHGb02+14 &ICMFP If at first you don't succeed, maybe skydiving's not for you! >Depends... >Southend-on-Sea to Bristol is about 170 miles Well then if you could average 65+ (MPH, sorry, I don't use KPH) then you could go end to end in less than 3 hours. Steve Grauman >Well then if you could average 65+ (MPH, sorry, I don't use KPH) then you could >go end to end in less than 3 hours. And the M25 would obviously help, wouldn't it... >>Depends... >>Southend-on-Sea to Bristol is about 170 miles > >Well then if you could average 65+ (MPH, sorry, I don't use KPH) then you could >go end to end in less than 3 hours. >Steve Grauman no chance, except perhaps at 3 in the morning. mostly, these days, I reckon averaging 40 is good going on the roads in this country - you can do a bit better on motorways, but doing more than 80 tends to attract unwanted attention from the boys in blue. If I were doing 80 I am sure I would attract lots of attention with all the bits flying off in all directions :) 60 is pushing it. There is an advantage to back roads, if they are not jammed up with traffic in that they are far more suited to a leisurly pace, Motorway driving is unpleasant in the extreme, without the power to get out in the middle lane, and with all that wind turbulence rattling the doors. SignatureLarry Series 3 rust and holes > no chance, except perhaps at 3 in the morning. mostly, these days, I reckon > averaging 40 is good going on the roads in this country - you can do a bit > better on motorways, but doing more than 80 tends to attract unwanted > attention from the boys in blue. >If I were doing 80 I am sure I would attract lots of attention with all the >bits flying off in all directions :) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Motorway driving is unpleasant in the extreme, without the power to get out >in the middle lane, and with all that wind turbulence rattling the doors. hehe. I used to get the 110 up to 70-odd. but the disco is happy to cruise at 80. >>Depends... >>Southend-on-Sea to Bristol is about 170 miles > >Well then if you could average 65+ (MPH, sorry, I don't use KPH) then you could >go end to end in less than 3 hours. >Steve Grauman www.multimap.com reckons 161 miles for the trip (shortest, not quickest), and 3 hours 40 minutes. From experience I usually add about an hour to a multimap trip, more in a rush hour. On a weekday afternoon I would allow 5 hours for that trip. Of course, you could go across England from Lands End to Berwick upon Tweed. That's 543 miles and 11 hours. It's 2 1/2 hours before you actually get to a motorway... SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt" '03 Volvo V70 My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com >> Depends... >> Southend-on-Sea to Bristol is about 170 miles > > Well then if you could average 65+ (MPH, sorry, I don't use KPH) then > you could go end to end in less than 3 hours. > Steve Grauman Not a chance, maybe once you got to the M4, but 65mph on the A127 and then the M25 you must be joking! Mind you we used to regularly do St Ives to Chelmsford in about 6hrs but that was in the late 60s before Motorways and breathlizers were invented in that part of the world! Mind you had the invulnerability of youth then. Doubt I could remember the way out of Cornwall now. SignatureUR SHGb02+14 &ICMFP If at first you don't succeed, maybe skydiving's not for you! >I might even get there next year - half these shows are a fecking long way >from here, and Eastnor is about the nearest. And about time, too. Bring the tea cosy ;-) SignatureSome Land Roveresque (101 biased), links available from: http://links.solis.co.uk/Geek/X4_Land_Rover/ I also have a little Land Rover site biased toward my beloved 101 "Grumble", at: http://www.101fc.net Reading this in 'alt.fan.landrover'? Did you know there's a group FAQ: http://www.aflfaq.dyndns.info > Has anybody driven this vehicle yet? Or at least had the chance to examine the > interior closely? How does it compare to the Discovery? We're looking at the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > so the diesel variants of Europe never make it here. > Steve Grauman The new vehicle is known as the LR3 in the USA and the Discovery 3 here in the UK. On first reports it is a completely new vehicle compared to the Series 2 Disco. You're asking if it's worth a look - well, obviously yes - see the title of this NG ;-) If you are looking at the VW and Volvo as well, I'm guessing that off-road ability is not top of your shopping list, in which case the LR is probably too much off-road star and not enough highway cruiser for your tastes and needs. The LR has Terrain Response, which is supposed to be able to turn a city futures trader into an expert off-road driver at the flick of a cheque-book. My guess is that it will let morons get even further off tarmac before they get it stuck. Yeah, go on, give it a look. The dealer isn't that far away, is it? JM2cW Rich Series 2a SWB RR 4.6 HSE Stuff > > Has anybody driven this vehicle yet? Or at least had the chance to examine the > > interior closely? How does it compare to the Discovery? We're looking at the [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > RR 4.6 HSE > Stuff I thought i didn't like the Disco3 but its grown on me. Still think that they forgot to design the back though! I seem to remember reading a review on it that the designers didn't add any design cues that were not needed. Stuff like air intake grille only on one side because it only needs one, not like on the new Rangie. Its got plenty of cool features though, the one I really liked was the remote locking battery in the key charges up as soon as you put the key in the ignition, how cool is that!? The boss has just taken delivery of his new Range Rover, bloody lovely too. Lots of toys such as a diplay on the LCD screen that tells you which way the wheels are pointing and how far the wheels are moving up and down. Also "venture cam" (best said with American accent) which is a wire free camera that displays its picture in the vehicle. I think it's supposed to be for hitching up but I can see it being used for lots of other uses! I wonder if the new diso's technology makes the Rangie seem a little out of date (especially with terrain response)but the Rangie still looks the better vehicle. As far as i'm concerned, as long as the don't mess up the new Defender, I don't care what they do with the Disco! I hope the rumours of basing the new vehicle on the T5 platform that the Disco sits on are unfounded. Dave > As far as i'm concerned, as long as the don't mess up the new >Defender, I don't care what they do with the Disco! I hope the rumours >of basing the new vehicle on the T5 platform that the Disco sits on >are unfounded. It's called T5 as it was originally planned to host 5 different vehicles. What's wrong with using it for the Defender replacement? 'Proper' separate chassis. Not sure how 'modular' they can make it, but a separate chassis is a good start. SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt" '03 Volvo V70 My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com >Also "venture cam" (best said with American >accent) LOL! I hope you guys are better than me in that area. I can't sound British for the life of me. I always come out sounding Irish when I try, or like a Pikey. Steve Grauman > >Also "venture cam" (best said with American > >accent) > > LOL! I hope you guys are better than me in that area. I can't sound British for > the life of me. I always come out sounding Irish when I try, or like a Pikey. > Steve Grauman Now I understand! Beer makes me an American! Rich >Now I understand! Beer makes me an American! I can't drink some of the beers you folks enjoy. Really dark, bitter drafts have never been my favorites. And no offense, but I'll take my cold, thank you. Steve Grauman There is beer and then there is beer, warm or cold whatever, if it is piss weak you can keep it. SignatureLarry Series 3 rust and holes > I can't drink some of the beers you folks enjoy. Really dark, bitter drafts > have never been my favorites. And no offense, but I'll take my cold, thank you. > Steve Grauman > >Also "venture cam" (best said with American > >accent) > > LOL! I hope you guys are better than me in that area. I can't sound British for > the life of me. I always come out sounding Irish when I try, or like a Pikey. > Steve Grauman Alright then, try saying "beer can, beer can, beer can" without sounding like a Jamaican asking for some bacon Dave So Dave Reynolds was, like > Alright then, try saying "beer can, beer can, beer can" without > sounding like a Jamaican asking for some bacon > > Dave <splutter> SignatureRich Series 2a RR 4.6 V8 trialler dog, wife, kids, whatever >Yeah, go on, give it a look. The dealer isn't that far away, is it? No, not particularly. I think you're right. ;-) Steve Grauman I work at a dealer in NY. We got our first LR3 yesterday. $50,550. With about 40 people waiting for them, it hasn't shut off since. It's laid out well, the seating is far better than the previous Discoveries. There will be plenty of room for groceries and dogs. An adult can actually sit in the rear seat as well, it has a footwell. (3rd row seat.) Standard and only engine is the 300hp 4.4 here. It not only has more power than previous Discos, but it gets better fuel economy. Not much better, but better. After two days of constant driving, it has shown no issues of any kind. I have no ideas of mom's abilities or health, but entry and operation are pretty easy. The warranty is 4 years, 50K miles. It's new, and Ford is involved now. We're not sure what that means. The new Range Rover is proving itself to be quite reliable so far, with the exception of minor annoyances. Busted cupholders and various plastic bits. We've yet to have any major failures on a new Range. That's a BMW thing, though, from inception to construction. >Has anybody driven this vehicle yet? Or at least had the chance to examine the >interior closely? How does it compare to the Discovery? We're looking at the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >so the diesel variants of Europe never make it here. >Steve Grauman The new Range Rover is proving > itself to be quite reliable so far, with the exception of minor > annoyances. Busted cupholders and various plastic bits. We've yet to > have any major failures on a new Range. That's a BMW thing, though, > from inception to construction. I am glad to hear this. Did you know that they have recently changed to fibre optic wiring for the 2005 model? Next Spring you will find the Jaguar V8, as in LR3, taking over from the BMW unit. Huw > We've yet to >have any major failures on a new Range. That's a BMW thing, though, >from inception to construction. That's the catch. The Range Rover is said to be very well built and very reliable but it's more or less a product of BMW. Land Rover never had much of a reliability record on their own, and while Ford's trucks tend to be 1,000% more reliable than their cars, some of their products are still questionable. Steve Grauman Reliability is relative it depends what you are prepared to contribute to it. If it is still running after thirty years there has got to be something going for it British Leyland and there reputation notwithstanding. The less luxury, the less fripperies the longer and the better it will last, and I should know my last motor was a limo. SignatureLarry Series 3 rust and holes > > We've yet to > >have any major failures on a new Range. That's a BMW thing, though, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > reliable than their cars, some of their products are still questionable. > Steve Grauman |
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