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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / October 20042.5D n/a lift pump
I have a Series2 fitted with a Sherpa Van Diesel. After fitting a new fuel filter today, I was unable to bleed the air from the system. The lift pump seemed to be useless. I eventualy took the outlet pipe off it, and it wouldn't even suck fuel up from the tank. Strange thing is, the vehicle was running perfectly before. Could the suction side of the injector pump have been doing most of the work before? And now I've got the lift pump on the bench should I be able to feel some suction with my thumb over the inlet? John > I have a Series2 fitted with a Sherpa Van Diesel. After fitting a new fuel > filter today, I was unable to bleed the air from the system. The lift pump > seemed to be useless. I eventualy took the outlet pipe off it, and it > wouldn't even suck fuel up from the tank. The pump operating lever was probably on the cam making the external lever ineffective. Rotate engine one turn and try again. > And now I've got the lift pump on the bench should I be able to feel some > suction with my thumb over the inlet? Yes. Pity that you've taken the pump off, though! > > I have a Series2 fitted with a Sherpa Van Diesel. After fitting a new fuel > > filter today, I was unable to bleed the air from the system. The lift pump [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The pump operating lever was probably on the cam making the external > lever ineffective. Rotate engine one turn and try again. Yep, tried that first. But still no suction. That's why I took the pump off. Still can't understand why it was OK before? > > And now I've got the lift pump on the bench should I be able to feel some > > suction with my thumb over the inlet? > > Yes. Pity that you've taken the pump off, though! Why, I thought I might be able to repair it. But it doesn't look as if it comes apart :-{ John I've had lift pump trouble on my sherpa engine recently too! I have bought a generic replacement lift pump from the local diesel engines place. It looked identical to the original one i had, but i now realise that it is slightly different - i think that the lever is bent very slightly differently - enough that it isnt possible to hand prime it with it on the engine as whatever position the cam is in it still wont let the external lever work. I now have to remove my lift pump from the block in order to prime it. Have you tried doing that?. leave the fuel pipes connected, and just pull it away from the block to prime it. I dont think you can feel that much suction on that with it off the car and your thumb on it. You may have to pump very hard/fast to initially get the air through the pump but once you get to fuel it should go fairly smoothly. A few years ago I had my injection pump recoditioned, and when i reassembled it i found that my lift pump wouldnt lift and was infact broken. Once the fuel system is fully bled it seems to run okay without a working lift pump - I had the injection pump reconditioned as the car had a tendancy to be very slow to loose revs. We thought this was the inejection pump, but it could just have been the lack of lift pump meaning that fuel didnt move through quick enough. Also, all the lift pumps that i have seen have been sealed units so you cant easily fix them yourself. You could possibly make up some sort of hybrid using a LR 2.25 petrol lift pump (which have replaceable diaphrams), and the lever off your old sherpa one (the only practical difference as far as i know - i tried to fit a petrol one to mine but the lever is wrong) > I've had lift pump trouble on my sherpa engine recently too! > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > prime it with it on the engine as whatever position the cam is in it > still wont let the external lever work. Hi Tom Thanks for that, I can see now that is exactly what this one was doing. I wonder if a thicker gasket would solve that problem. Aren't the Sherpa pumps the same as the Landrover pumps? > I now have to remove my lift pump from the block in order to prime it. > Have you tried doing that?. leave the fuel pipes connected, and just [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You may have to pump very hard/fast to initially get the air through > the pump but once you get to fuel it should go fairly smoothly. As I have the pump on the bench already, I've connected a bit of flexible pipe to the inlet and stuck the other end in a jerry can full of diesel. Then worked the lever like mad.(tried this with both levers) Result , no suction at all. Tried filling the pump with diesel to prime it too. Even tried blowing diesel through it to flush it, in case there was a bit of muck stuck under one of the valves. I think it's a duff pump....But the engine was running perfectly before I changed the fuel filter. > A few years ago I had my injection pump recoditioned, and when i > reassembled it i found that my lift pump wouldnt lift and was infact [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > inejection pump, but it could just have been the lack of lift pump > meaning that fuel didnt move through quick enough. Interesting. It's begining to look as if these engines will run without a lift pump, once they've been bled! > Also, all the lift pumps that i have seen have been sealed units so > you cant easily fix them yourself. You could possibly make up some > sort of hybrid using a LR 2.25 petrol lift pump (which have > replaceable diaphrams), and the lever off your old sherpa one (the > only practical difference as far as i know - i tried to fit a petrol > one to mine but the lever is wrong) Aren't these 2.5 pumps available from Landrover spares retailers? John >I think it's a duff pump....But the >engine was running perfectly before I changed the fuel filter. Sounds like its dead. >> A few years ago I had my injection pump recoditioned, and when i >> reassembled it i found that my lift pump wouldnt lift and was infact [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Interesting. It's begining to look as if these engines will run without a >lift pump, once they've been bled! I think they will, though you might notice a lack of power, or it racing like mine was (not enough fuel). Probably doesnt help the injection pump either >> Also, all the lift pumps that i have seen have been sealed units so >> you cant easily fix them yourself. You could possibly make up some [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Aren't these 2.5 pumps available from Landrover spares retailers? Paddocks list em, so most places most likely do them. I was just suggesting using the petrol one as an alternative if you happen to already have one lying around! > On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:38:12 +0100, "Oilierthanthou" > > Interesting. It's begining to look as if these engines will run without a > >lift pump, once they've been bled! > > I think they will, though you might notice a lack of power, or it > racing like mine was (not enough fuel). Probably doesnt help the > injection pump either This one was inexplicably racing occasionally. I think you've just solved the mystery for me. But why does a diesel race when it's sort of fuel? I would have expected it to just splutter and die. > >> Also, all the lift pumps that i have seen have been sealed units so > >> you cant easily fix them yourself. You could possibly make up some [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I was just suggesting using the petrol one as an alternative if you > happen to already have one lying around! Right,.. yes I do have one lying around, so I tried it in the hole. The stud centres are the same, but as you say the angle at which the lever meets the cam is different. I think it's probably easier to buy a new pump. My thanks to all who contributed to this thread. John > I have a Series2 fitted with a Sherpa Van Diesel. After fitting a new > fuel filter today, I was unable to bleed the air from the system. The [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > work before? And now I've got the lift pump on the bench should I be > able to feel some suction with my thumb over the inlet? It has to suck fuel from the bottom of the fuel tank and push it through the fuel system so yes, you should feel some suction. If your fuel pipes aren't too wide a diameter and there's no air in the system then the injector pump itself can sometimes provide enough suction to keep running. Once you get a little air in though it'll stop running and you'll then find the pump is knackered and wont bleed through. If the pump wont come apart it's time for a replacement one.  SignatureFZS600 - Silver/Black GS125 - Black/Rust Ford 100E Prefect - Black, naturally Whisky - Aberlour Cask Strength >I have a Series2 fitted with a Sherpa Van Diesel. After fitting a new fuel > filter today, I was unable to bleed the air from the system. The lift pump [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > John Most engines will operate perfectly without a lift pump until they need bleeding. If the pump is a non serviceable type then get a new one. If it can be dismantled and is obviously meant to be dismantled, then it is repairable. Most people don't bother any more. You have the option of installing an electric lift pump like a Passet unit. This is only really viable if you cannot get at the existing unit due to installation constraints. Huw >You have the option of installing an electric lift pump like a Passet unit. >This is only really viable if you cannot get at the existing unit due to >installation constraints. Oooh!. I was just wondering about wether i could get an electric one for mine. Do you mean a make called 'Passet', or do you mean Passat like the cars made by VW? (they seem to have loads of useful bits on!). On that note is there many old cars which have electric diesel pumps that i might find in the scrap yard? >>You have the option of installing an electric lift pump like a Passet >>unit. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > like the cars made by VW? (they seem to have loads of useful bits > on!). I mean a make called Passet or similar. Its been a while since I fitted one and that was to a vehicle that had a failed electric pump which was costly in time to replace because it was inside a fuel tank which was itself in a difficult position. The replacement was plumbed outside the tank and the old one was left in place with the new pump sucking fuel through it. > On that note is there many old cars which have electric diesel pumps > that i might find in the scrap yard? The preferred method would be to repair/replace your existing mechanical pump. Huw >I mean a make called Passet or similar. Its been a while since I fitted one >and that was to a vehicle that had a failed electric pump which was costly >in time to replace because it was inside a fuel tank which was itself in a >difficult position. The replacement was plumbed outside the tank and the old >one was left in place with the new pump sucking fuel through it. ITYM 'Pacet', well known for fuel pumps. I have one on the 101... SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt" '03 Volvo V70 My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com >>I mean a make called Passet or similar. Its been a while since I fitted one >>and that was to a vehicle that had a failed electric pump which was costly [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >ITYM 'Pacet', well known for fuel pumps. I have one on the 101... Thanks. I can find google hits for 'pacet'. Think i might still look round at the scrappy. I have to get some bits for mine as it is. Huw - I think id rather have an electric pump. I dont seem to have much luck with mechanical ones! (my engine is on its 3rd!). I wouldnt mind so much if they were servicable items. I just dont like throwing the whole thing away for a simple failure! >>I mean a make called Passet or similar. Its been a while since I fitted one >>and that was to a vehicle that had a failed electric pump which was costly [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >ITYM 'Pacet', well known for fuel pumps. I have one on the 101... That's rubbish Hobbs! Pacet make fans. Facet make fuel pumps! Nurse! SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt" '03 Volvo V70 My Landies? http://www.seriesii.co.uk Barcoding? http://www.bartec-systems.com Tony Luckwill web archive at http://www.luckwill.com >That's rubbish Hobbs! Pacet make fans. Facet make fuel pumps! I managed to find google hits about pacet fuel pumps so they must make pumps too, or there are a lot of similarily confused people! :) |
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