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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / October 2004Inverter wattage output.
This is on topic as I want to put an old PIII machine in the 101 to use for navigation software and also when parked up to use a TV card through to allow viewing of Satelite reception save carrying yet more bulky tv stuff with me (note therefore it won't be viewable on the move) How do I work out what size inverter to fit? When parked up we will be running off the mains on site or from a generator when in the field...literally. I'm keen to keep costs down so not interested in a 12 volt power supply, I also understand inverters help stabalise the power spikes from the alternator etc. Only other expense should be... re-radiating gps antenna and a tft screen. The other kits ready to go... Lee D  Signaturewww.lrproject.com Workshop photos from Landrover repairs & other such tinkerings. Home of Percy the Jag powered Landrover Am i correct in assuming that you are not planning on using the nav software on the go? I can assure you that your HDD will not survive long if you are. Most PSU are typically around 300watts for a PC so that should give you a good point to start from. Regards Stephen >Am i correct in assuming that you are not planning on using the nav software >on the go? I can assure you that your HDD will not survive long if you are. for a limited-use PC it should be possible in theory to have it work without a HDD at all, just have lots of RAM... On Monday, in article <c65qn0ts73pqgh6svcerfvmloj0nfdr3cn@4ax.com> > >Am i correct in assuming that you are not planning on using the nav software > >on the go? I can assure you that your HDD will not survive long if you are. > > for a limited-use PC it should be possible in theory to have it work without > a HDD at all, just have lots of RAM... The other "trick" is to get an adaptor which allows a Compact Flash card to look like an IDE drive. I am not sure that all this will work well with Windows software. You really need to run a RAM-disk for writing data, and Windows is a bit slapdash about where in the system it needs to write to. Cheap computing while static -- easy. Cheap computing while moving -- hard SignatureDavid G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger. "History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee was bitten by a radioactive spider." David G. Bell wrote: > The other "trick" is to get an adaptor which allows a Compact Flash card > to look like an IDE drive. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Cheap computing while moving -- hard David, I am working on a project with With a 512M USB2 card and a mini-itx motherboard, power consumption is around 15 W Still playing with a Linux distie, with X and Wine on it. Any suggestions ? Steve > David G. Bell wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Steve Good luck with Wine - I haven't managed to get it to do anything useful. JD >> David G. Bell wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> Steve >Good luck with Wine - I haven't managed to get it to do anything useful. if you've enough resources on the machine, you could use VMware. Virtual machine, you install windows on the virtual one and then you can always exit to the linux shell and terminate it when it hangs :-) > I am working on a project with With a 512M USB2 card and a mini-itx > motherboard, power consumption is around 15 W > > Still playing with a Linux distie, with X and Wine on it. Any suggestions ? > > Steve Hey is there some kind of linux-landrover analogy here? I've always believed that my interest in the linux-way-of-thinking (downloading source/compiling/fixing-without re-booting) was very similar to my reasons for running a land (sourcing from a variety of places/ building from chassis upwards etc) - though I have yet to try and see how much of the wagon I can fix without at least pulling over to the side of the road ;-) Meanwhile ... back at the topic, Have a look at the quality of the sinewave output of the inverter. Many inverters use a very crude stepped quasi-sinewave which could freak out some PC power supplies (or at the very least cause some irritating whining and whistling from the supply). Also, since the voltage is being stepped up by a factor of 20 or so then the current going into the inverter will be huge. Huge currents mean huge magnetic fields mean huge data loss from magnetic media. Careful how close to the inverter, you fit the PC. Hey, just had a thought (and too bone idle to see if anyone else in the thread has mentioned it)... Your peripherals will use 12V,5V and 0V and your mobo will use a variety of fixed value regulated dc voltages. Is there no project out there to turn the 13.6V car battery into all the voltages you need without ever going through the a.c. stage at all? I'm sure a few 7812, 7809, 7805's and some zener diodes will give you all you want. Hmm, maybe my first million is in the oven. SignatureAndy Richardson <andy@mrbumpy.co.uk> 99% of Linux users moved away from Windows 99% of Windows users don't know there's a choice > Huge currents mean huge magnetic fields mean huge > data loss from magnetic media. Only if huge current is wrapped around by huge numbers of turns. > Hey, just had a thought (and too bone idle to see if anyone else in the > thread has mentioned it)... Your peripherals will use 12V,5V and 0V and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'm sure a few 7812, 7809, 7805's and some zener diodes will give you > all you want. And the negative rails ? ;-) Steve There are PSU's available which will supply an ATX connector from 12v dc ( includes -rail) they come in at around ?60 though >> Huge currents mean huge magnetic fields mean huge data loss from magnetic >> media. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Steve > There are PSU's available which will supply an ATX connector from 12v dc ( > includes -rail) > they come in at around £60 though ...and they're switch-mode PSUs, not linear ones made from 7812 and 7805... Steve > And the negative rails ? > ;-) > > Steve I guess you'd need a few 7660, a luvly little 8pin chip. you provide the +ve voltage, it inverts it for you... among other functions. gorgeous! SignatureAndy Richardson <andy@mrbumpy.co.uk> 99% of Linux users moved away from Windows 99% of Windows users don't know there's a choice >> And the negative rails ? >> ;-) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > +ve voltage, it inverts it for you... among other functions. > gorgeous! Oh Aye, maximum o/p current about 40mA, and dreadful regulation.... Steve > Only if huge current is wrapped around by huge numbers of turns. Buggar! you're right there, I was still thinking big transformers. :-( Perhaps fast switching of big currents? OK ok, no more smug-mode. SignatureAndy Richardson <andy@mrbumpy.co.uk> 99% of Linux users moved away from Windows 99% of Windows users don't know there's a choice > Perhaps fast switching of big currents? Tends to lead to RF noise, from ringing edges, fast changing mag. fields, high induced voltage transients ? That what you're after ? Steve >I'm sure a few 7812, 7809, 7805's and some zener diodes will give you >all you want. should work, provided the current capacity of the 78xx are sufficient. ISTR that some bits of PCs run -5 and -12V, but that should be possible. might not be quite so easy, but there may be a regulator which does it. dunno how much current it all takes, mind. >>I'm sure a few 7812, 7809, 7805's and some zener diodes will give you >>all you want. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > dunno how much current it all takes, mind. A 7805 won't handle more than 3A - and that might need heroic heatsinking, or an extra radiator on the front. You can't GET -ve supplies from a +ve one with a linear method. Steve >for a limited-use PC it should be possible in theory to have it work without >a HDD at all, just have lots of RAM... Been here... It's reasonalby easy to keep the o/s on an eprom chip (or memory that can be made bootable). Given some of these USB memory stick jobbies are now available for around a 100 quid for 2gig - you could easily have something you could remove from the vehicle without too much hassle for security reasons too. >>for a limited-use PC it should be possible in theory to have it work >>without [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > could easily have something you could remove from the vehicle without > too much hassle for security reasons too. I like this idea.. whats more I can move the planned routes and points of interest too with minimal faffing between the 101comp and laptop etc etc. I'll follow that up. Looking at Infomaps specs it 3,7 gb hdd space but thats for all the maps (whole of Europe). As I'm unlikely to be able to afford to cover them all in one day then 2 gig should eat it. I take it these usb drives just mimic a HDD or what have you? Lee D >Been here... It's reasonalby easy to keep the o/s on an eprom chip >(or memory that can be made bootable). Given some of these USB memory >stick jobbies are now available for around a 100 quid for 2gig - you >could easily have something you could remove from the vehicle without >too much hassle for security reasons too. Probably too techy for me, I asked about it here but shied away. I ended up with an IBM laptop with 133Mhz pentium running some old navigator software and a 1:250000 OS licensed bitmap.I connect this to a Garmin 12xl which I carry when walking. The 150W modified square wave inverter powers it all up but I cannot help thinking there must be a way of simply dumping the (extinct) 10.5V battery and using the 12V vehicle electrics, doing away the inverter. Wouldn't a couple of hefty diodes drop the voltage from 14.5V when running safely? AJH > Wouldn't a couple of hefty diodes drop the voltage from > 14.5V when running safely? No. Steve >> Wouldn't a couple of hefty diodes drop the voltage from >> 14.5V when running safely? > >No. Any relatively easy way around the problem? I think the mains adapter puts out 18V. So to take 14.5V dc, convert it to 230V ac and then to 18V ?? to replace a 10.5V dc Lion battery is a bit tortuous. AJH > Am i correct in assuming that you are not planning on using the nav > software > on the go? I can assure you that your HDD will not survive long if you > are. Yep noted. I think I'm right in saying that the Nav software works without reference to the HDD once the maps and route has been calculated if I recall correctly. Only other time I've noticed any momentary lag is when it recalculates the route when I get lost. Given that the 101 Ambulance is actually smoother than the Rangie when it comes to suspension I'm not too worried. The laptop managed 1700 miles last summer. That said I dare say the HDD drive on the laptop is designed with greater tolerances. > Most PSU are typically around 300watts for a PC so that should give you a > good point to start from. Ta Lee D >I think I'm right in saying that the Nav software works without reference to >the HDD once the maps and route has been calculated if I recall correctly. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >summer. That said I dare say the HDD drive on the laptop is designed with >greater tolerances. You can fit laptop drives into normal PC's if you like. Theyre a little bit more expensive, and you need an adaptor to plug em in with (costs a few quid from maplins). >This is on topic as I want to put an old PIII machine in the 101 to use for >navigation software and also when parked up to use a TV card through to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >running off the mains on site or from a generator when in the >field...literally. If you open up the case on your pc and look on the power supply it will tell you what wattage it is. Use this as a maximum figure. Usually they are somewhere between 250 and 350 though you can get higher (and lower) Realistically, the machine will not be using the full wattage available from the PSU. If you look at the manual for the motherboard that will probably tell you how much power it consumes. I'd guess it will be getting on for 100 or so just for the motherboard and CPU. Other stuff in the PC will increase that number - so allow more available wattage for things like the expansion cards (such as graphics and sound). Hard disks and CD drives will also use some more. Probably 25W or so each, and more when they have to spin up. From this you can work out what sort of wattage you will need to supply to the PC, and then select the right sort of inverter. this may help you work it out: http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/ You may find it easier to build yourself a PC specifically to work better with less available power, or just use a laptop! There are some nice 12v mini motherboards around. I just built myself a little pc based on a ready made box. That has a 230w psu, and runs quite happily off my 300W inverter on a knackered battery. >I'm keen to keep costs down so not interested in a 12 volt power supply, I >also understand inverters help stabalise the power spikes from the >alternator etc. > >Only other expense should be... re-radiating gps antenna and a tft screen. >The other kits ready to go... Aim to find a tft screen that runs straight off 12V - it will make your life a lot easier! (many screens do run from 12v, and just come with a tranformer to let you run them off the mains) I've just sold a piece of kit on ebay that would do fine - it had had a laptop HDD in it and would be fine even for mild off roading. 2.5" HDD's are a hell of a lot more robust than you think, the I-pod's got a 20GB in it and that can take a bashing. Check out http://www.cappuccinopc.com/default.asp This is the stuff I had along with a Lilliput 7" widescreen touchscreen and a USB mouse running Destinator mapping SW - There's usually a load of SH stuff for sale at www.mp3car.com If it's cheap sat nav ure after and u dont need it to work on the top of snowdon ( roads only) then the TomTom go unit is amazing value and works a treat. www.tomtom.com Steve > This is on topic as I want to put an old PIII machine in the 101 to use > for navigation software and also when parked up to use a TV card through [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Lee D > a Lilliput 7" widescreen touchscreen Cute isn't it ? With the VGA and two video inputs ? Steve yep >> a Lilliput 7" widescreen touchscreen > > Cute isn't it ? With the VGA and two video inputs ? > > Steve > yep Got partly paid in monitors when I did some consulancy work in the states in May - 120 quid. <sidling up to Martyn> Psst Martyn, wanna buy a new monitor ? <Ducks Missiles from his Missis> Steve got mine from e-bay via hong kong bout ?150 Theres a new 8" version out now mates got one but the touch sesitivity is not as good. >> yep > Got partly paid in monitors when I did some consulancy work in the states [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Steve > got mine from e-bay via hong kong bout £150 > Theres a new 8" version out now mates got one but the touch sesitivity is > not as good. Once again we are getting screwed here. I wonder if its a an anti-dumping duty thing ? Steve I tend to buy all my electrical "gizmos" form HK and as long as you get them to label it up as a gift and valued under $20 it sails through customs and no extra duty :-) All that tax we pay goes towards making the UK a far better,safer and healthier place to live you know. Oh I'm sorry I had my rose tinted specs on!! >> got mine from e-bay via hong kong bout ?150 >> Theres a new 8" version out now mates got one but the touch sesitivity is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Steve > I tend to buy all my electrical "gizmos" form HK and as long as you get them > to label it up as a gift and valued under $20 it sails through customs and > no extra duty :-) Apparently labeling things as "sample" has the same effect. The company I work for regularly ship from the far east and do this quite often. Signaturesimon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk Simon Barr. '97 110 300Tdi. |
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