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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / May 2005Suspension Bushes.
G'day all. Just a query about my LWB series 3. i splashed out on a complete set of those polyurethane suspension bushes. got stuck into it this morning, got the shackle and both bolts out of the left rear, only to find the standard bushes are incredibly hard to budge. i tried a little "persuasive percussion" with a lump of wood, and a bodged up press using a D clamp, but to no avail. any one got any advice on how to get these little buggers out?? Thanks. Sam. If its got a metal insert *Slightly oversize drill and drill at an angle *Hacksaw the metal tube *Burn out with a gas torch Good luck John H > G'day all. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Sam. >>G'day all. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >>Sam. > If its got a metal insert > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > John H I'd vary that slightly. Heat up (we're talking gas torch not hair dryer!) the metal insert to free the bond to the rubber. Knock out the insert. Don't worry about burning the rubber - that's the next step. You should now have access to hacksaw through the outer tube. Heating should be relatively localised - you don't want to overheat the spring leaf if that's where you're working. Incidentally, are you talking about the spring eye bushes or the bushes in the chassis? If it's the chassis ones, 'little buggers' is a bit of an understatement when it comes to refitting unless the polyurethane ones are easier. >G'day all. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >percussion" with a lump of wood, and a bodged up press using a D clamp, but >to no avail. any one got any advice on how to get these little buggers out?? Yes, cut em or burn em. You won't drive them out unless you have a hydraulic press, it's difficult enough driving the new ones in without one. Generally speaking the accepted method is to remove the centre, usually by drilling or burning the rubber away, and then pass a hacksaw blade through the outer, attach it to the hacksaw and cut through the outer shell. The resulting gap will allow the bush to be tapped out. Alex Thanks for the advice fellas. i was hoping i wouldn't have to get my drill out. i am always a little scared using drills and oxy torches etc. around sprinf mounts and other really important things. i'm a little paranoid about cutting metal that i shouldn't cut. anyway, i'll have a crack at it next weekend maybe. Cheers Sam. > Yes, cut em or burn em. You won't drive them out unless you have a > hydraulic press, it's difficult enough driving the new ones in without [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Alex Sam I did this job on my RR classic about a year ago before I left the UK. - the heat you need to use to burn the rubber away will not affect the spring tempering or anything mettalurgical. Do make sure you do it outside and try not to breathe the fumes, and keep the melted burning rubber blobs away from anything that matters, like your legs and arms or garage floor - it won't come off. Its the easiest way of doing it. When you saw through the outer casing of the rubber bushings you need to do it carefully and keep inspecting the sawcut you are maing with a good light - you can see when you have cut through the bushing into the "socket" it fits in. You'll never get the central bit cut through completely but you don't need to. Just drive a screwdriver down one side of the cut casing and it will split the "uncut " bit. and ten easily drive it out. Puttin PU bushings in is easy - you can use grease. and a piece of studding a couple of nuts and some appropriately sized sockets. Jon > Sam > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > rubber blobs away from anything that matters, like your legs and arms > or garage floor - it won't come off. Its the easiest way of doing it. i know what burning rubber or plastic does to your skin, not pleasant. i think might have a crack at it with a drill first. chuck the biggest bit into the drill and extract the inner tube and the rubber. i am fairly sure a 13mm bit should do the job. > When you saw through the outer casing of the rubber bushings you need > to do it carefully and keep inspecting the sawcut you are maing with a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Puttin PU bushings in is easy - you can use grease. and a piece of > studding a couple of nuts and some appropriately sized sockets. well, that is a relief. just a pity the standard ones are such a bastard to get out. Thanks. Sam. >>Sam >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > into the drill and extract the inner tube and the rubber. i am fairly sure a > 13mm bit should do the job. The risk of hot rubber on your skin is tiny if you take just the simplest of precautions. You are applying the heat from the side of the vehicle - there's no need to be under the hot stuff. On the other hand drilling out a rubber-mounted bush unless you can restrain it some way will be an awful job. I wouldn't even consider it as sensible. Having removed the insert you then have to get through the rubber to apply your hacksaw to the outer tube. That's another foul job unless you burn the rubber out. Apart from Jon's recommendation to do the job outside, I would only add that it's a good idea to have a water sprayer handy to keep things under control. > Having removed the insert you then have to get through the rubber to > apply your hacksaw to the outer tube. That's another foul job unless > you burn the rubber out. What is this rubber that resists a drill and hacksaw blade? I've got to admit all this burning out has had me wondering for a while. At first I thought there wasn't a hole through the middle but it appears that there is and sleeved so what is the problem with threading a hacksaw blade through the hole, cutting through the sleeve and rubber and finally the outer. Even the burner outers hacksaw through the outer...  SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail >> Having removed the insert you then have to get through the rubber to >> apply your hacksaw to the outer tube. That's another foul job unless [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >and finally the outer. Even the burner outers hacksaw through the >outer... Because there's a 70% or more chance that you've had to cut the bolts because they're corroded into their sleeves thus rendering those holes most definitely blocked! SignatureAndyG >>> Having removed the insert you then have to get through the rubber to >>> apply your hacksaw to the outer tube. That's another foul job unless [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > because they're corroded into their sleeves thus rendering those holes > most definitely blocked! Whilst that is frequently true it was not among my original thoughts. I was not suggesting in my original comment that the use of a drill and hacksaw on rubber were impossible. However my personal experience has been that, even with a new blade, certain rubbers (including those in this type of bush) are not easily cut with a hacksaw especially if you are working in an awkward location. The drilling of the insert easily requires it to be held stationary. Unless you do something unusual to achieve that, the insert is 'floating' both rotationally and axially in the rubber. It's not an easy thing to drill. Most people will have access to a gas torch. I can only suggest that to use it is the easiest way to get these bushes out. >>G'day all. >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Alex Didn't someone make a tool called a bushwhacker or similar just for this? As I've just ordered a new front suspension for mine I have an interest.... SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt" '03 Volvo V70 >Didn't someone make a tool called a bushwhacker or similar just for >this? As I've just ordered a new front suspension for mine I have an >interest.... http://shop.dingocroft.co.uk/acatalog/Bushwacka_Tools.html Hmmm, gas torch looks like the way to go.... SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt" '03 Volvo V70 > >Didn't someone make a tool called a bushwhacker or similar just for > >this? As I've just ordered a new front suspension for mine I have an [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Hmmm, gas torch looks like the way to go.... mmmm, interesting looking piece of kit. but at 160 pounds, i might see what i can come up with. s'pose it wouldn't be all that hard to make a similar thing in the back shed hey?? all you need is a long bolt, then some sort of cylinder thingy that pushes against the chassis etc. i'll have a think about it. Sam. >> >Didn't someone make a tool called a bushwhacker or similar just for >> >this? As I've just ordered a new front suspension for mine I have an [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Sam. You will need to use a high tensile bolt as large as will fit through the bush. You can do it with an assortment of sockets or you can make the tools with a lathe if you have one. JD > You will need to use a high tensile bolt as large as will fit through the > bush. You can do it with an assortment of sockets or you can make the > tools with a lathe if you have one. > JD Why high tensile, is that because of the large forces likely to be required to get the bush out?? it would have to be a little over twice the length of one bush wouldn't it, which would make the bolt about 6 inches. i didn't think of using sockets. that sounds like a good idea, just need one socket large enough to go around the bush, so about 50 ml, and something just wide enough to sit flush around the bush. unfortunately i don't have a lathe. i'll have a crack at it during the week and see what i can do. cheers. Sam. >> You will need to use a high tensile bolt as large as will fit through the >> bush. You can do it with an assortment of sockets or you can make the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > required to get the bush out?? it would have to be a little over twice the > length of one bush wouldn't it, which would make the bolt about 6 inches. Yes, you may get away with a normal bolt, but it is likely that you will break it if the bushes are as tight as they usually are. Oil the thread anyway to avoid stripping it. > i didn't think of using sockets. that sounds like a good idea, just need > one socket large enough to go around the bush, so about 50 ml, and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Sam. When fitting new bushes put antiseize compound on the outer and inner sleeves to make it easier next time. JD > When fitting new bushes put antiseize compound on the outer and inner > sleeves to make it easier next time. > JD i am fitting a new set of them fandangled polyurethane bushes which, from what i've heard on the grapevine, are not as much of a turd to fit and extract. but we'll see hey?? Sam. >> When fitting new bushes put antiseize compound on the outer and inner >> sleeves to make it easier next time. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Sam. They are easier to fit, and also easier to remove, but do have drawbacks. JD > > i am fitting a new set of them fandangled polyurethane bushes which, from > > what i've heard on the grapevine, are not as much of a turd to fit and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > They are easier to fit, and also easier to remove, but do have drawbacks. > JD What are these drawbacks you are speaking of?? interested, since i have already coughed up the $115, not too bad when i think about though. Sam. >> > i am fitting a new set of them fandangled polyurethane bushes which, >from [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >What are these drawbacks you are speaking of?? interested, since i have >already coughed up the $115, not too bad when i think about though. they're generally harder then the rubber ones, or have different elasticity characteristics. Can alter things like ride quality. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself. If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself. from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton. > they're generally harder then the rubber ones, or have different elasticity > characteristics. Can alter things like ride quality. Do they make the ride firmer?? or just different? i was under the impression that they perform almost identically, but last a lot longer. Sam. >> they're generally harder then the rubber ones, or have different > elasticity [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Sam. There are two types of polyurethane bushes. The original red type are a lot harder than the rubber they replace, and will give a harsher ride. The more recent blue variety are designed to give an identical ride to the original rubber ones. My experience is that in some positions they are long lasting, but in others they do not last as long as the rubber. Also, they are more prone to wearing the hole they fit in than the rubber ones. The one definite advantage of the polyurethane bushes is that they are easier to fit or replace. Note however that there are a number of different brands of both colours and the quality and durability do vary. JD >There are two types of polyurethane bushes. The original red type are a lot >harder than the rubber they replace, and will give a harsher ride. The more >recent blue variety are designed to give an identical ride to the original >rubber ones. Mind, there are those who advocate using the originals only. meanwhile, on the subject of harsh ride... been playing with he new (to me) minibus - talk about harsh ride. Fitted a size larger front tyres, run at lower pressure (40 lb, at the moment, instead of the 48 the book says, and reduced the rear pressures (vehicle is, to all intents, most of the time unladen) to 34 (twin wheels) - the book says 50-odd for them, which might be right if you have 1½ tons in the back, or in the case of a bus, a dozen fat bastards. They were at about 46, which felt way too hard on the road. 34 rides much more nicely, and the tyres don't look noticeably soft, either. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that "Remember that to change your mind and follow him who sets you right is to be none the less free than you were before." Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (121-180), from Meditations, VIII.16 >> >Didn't someone make a tool called a bushwhacker or similar just for >> >this? As I've just ordered a new front suspension for mine I have an [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Sam. There's summat on Chris Perfect's site about hiring one, but you could probably rig something fairly cheaply. Let me know how you get on - I've just ordered all the parts for mine. SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt" '03 Volvo V70 |
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