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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / June 2005"wobbly" disco
I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph you get a "speed wobble" where the steering wheel starts shaking from side to side at great speed. I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in the hubs. Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas??? Dave > I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's > perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Dave Could easily be unbalanced front wheels matey. Nige  SignatureSubaru WRX (Annabel) Landrover 110 County Station Wagon (Tyson) '"They called him Jimmy the gent" >> I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's >> perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Could easily be unbalanced front wheels matey. Agreed, i've had this on my car and it was caused by unbalanced wheels. Get this checked before trying anything else as its the easiest option! >>> At speeds above about 40 mph you get a "speed wobble" where the >>> steering wheel starts shaking from side to side at great speed. > > Agreed, i've had this on my car and it was caused by unbalanced > wheels. I've had that as well. Can you drive through the shake? An unbalanced wheel can be driven through in a range of 10 to 20mph from when it becomes detectable. It won't go completely but will definately have a peak(*) as the wheel RPM passes through resonance. (*) Might be so bad that you can't safely drive through it... SignatureCheers new5pam@howhill.com Dave. pam is missing e-mail > Could easily be unbalanced front wheels matey. And the damper, the unbalanced fronts introduce a bit of tremble which quickly becomes a vigorous shake if the damper is knackered. I collected a Discovery from Sheffield like that and the drive back to SW Wales was "entertaining" SignatureNiamh 4x4 Cymru http://www.4x4cymru.co.uk > I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's > perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph you [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Dave Yes both the above can cause the symptoms you describe. Try removing the damper and mannually work it through it's range of movement. If you get any slack areas. Usually around the centre then it requires replacement. The preloads are a matter of disconnecting the trackrod ends and checking with a spring balance. It's not hard to do, just time consuming. It's also worth taking the brake pads out when checking as they will mask any bearing movement and create the impression that the swivel pins bearings are defunct rather than the wheel bearing. Also worth checking all your track rod ends given there are so many. Lee D Signaturewww.lrproject.com Workshop photos from Landrover repairs & other such tinkerings. Home of Percy the Jag powered Landrover so edeowner@yahoo.com was, like... > I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's > perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Dave 1. Unbalanced front wheels - try swapping them side-to-side. Large amounts of mud will also do this - think Jumbo's 90 at anything over 35mph. Frightened me. 2. Incorrect swivel pre-load. I don't think this is a damper problem. AIUI, the damper is mainly there to prevent violent steering movement off-road or if you hit a big pothole. Under normal circumstances, the steering *shouldn't* need damping. If you fit a new damper and stops the shaking, all you have done is mask the problem. The shaking forces are still there, they're just being damped out. BICBW. SignatureRich ============================== Disco 300 Tdi auto S2a 88" SW Tiggrr (V8 trialler) > I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in > the hubs. Could also just be bad wheel balance, get the balancing done (should cost about 6-10 quid) and see if that helps, if not then steering damper is easiest to check by nicking one off someone else's disco (with permission of course), then if that doesn't work get the preload checked. SignatureFor every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert >>I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in >>the hubs. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > (with permission of course), then if that doesn't work get the preload > checked. I'd check track rod ends, following to wheel balancing. I have also such a 'mad' Disco. Current TR ends are diagnosed as 'worth changing' and are ordered already, so i can tell results shortly. Front shocks change made things a bit better as well. Kalev Thanks for all the info, i'd totally forgotten about the possibility of out if balance wheels. Judging by the previous owner It's probably flat spots on the tyres. I haven't had chance to drive it very far because of the fact it wobbled off the road into a hedge. I will certainly take the wheels off and sling them in the back of the 90 and drop them off at the tyre place on the way to work. All i've got to do now is find some disco panels and glass to replace the broken ones! Ho hum Cheers Dave >Thanks for all the info, i'd totally forgotten about the possibility of >out if balance wheels. Judging by the previous owner It's probably flat [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >at the tyre place on the way to work. All i've got to do now is find >some disco panels and glass to replace the broken ones! Ho hum Had a nice wobble in the recently-acquired minibus, which I attributed to a badly-off-balance wheel. I'd swapped tyres and wheels from back to front (there are 4 at the back). Now fitted new fatter front ones, run at lower pressure, and dropped the rear pressures from 46 to 34, which has improved the very harsh ride no end. I reckon the rears might stand 32, at that; after all, there are 4 of 'em carrying the load. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that "There is plenty of time to win this game, and to thrash the Spaniards too" Sir Francis Drake (1540? - 1596) Attr. saying when the Armarda was sighted, 20th July 1588 > Had a nice wobble in the recently-acquired minibus, which I attributed to a > badly-off-balance wheel. I'd swapped tyres and wheels from back to front > (there are 4 at the back). Now fitted new fatter front ones, run at lower > pressure, and dropped the rear pressures from 46 to 34, which has improved > the very harsh ride no end. I reckon the rears might stand 32, at that; > after all, there are 4 of 'em carrying the load. What sort of minibus did you get Austin? SignatureEMB >> Had a nice wobble in the recently-acquired minibus, which I attributed to a >> badly-off-balance wheel. I'd swapped tyres and wheels from back to front [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >What sort of minibus did you get Austin? 's an LDV convoy, the latest incarnation of the sherpa... ford engine and 'box, same ones as the transit. It does actually have 4 driven wheels... sadly the 4x4 transit I had me eye on had been sold. Still, this one has fewer miles, and is newer, and was cheaper... SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that "The great masses of the people ... will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945) from Mein Kampf, Ch 10 >>> I have had to thoughts a.) Steering damper or b.)incorrect preload in >>> the hubs. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Kalev Thats it. Changed track rod ends and wobbling is pretty much gone, at least in my case. Just feeling those up'n'down bumps on track, where my steering went mad previously. Normal cruise speed is no more limited to 90 kph so i have to keep eye on speedo. Kalev > I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's > perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph you [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Dave That's almost 100% certain to be incorrect preload on the hubs, I have had it happen on several Discoveries & Defenders. It's relatively easy to fix if you have a selection of king pin shims and a large spring balance to set the preload. Hope this helps, Fergus >> I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's >> perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph you [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >you have a selection of king pin shims and a large spring balance to set the >preload. wasn't on my 110, it was a non-functional steering damper. and when you say hubs I assume you mean swivels. Hub bearings have 2 different setting regimes on discos depending on which axle it is I suspect - the early axle with the solid drive flange/shaft bit isn't the same as the later one with the separate driving member and the plastic oil-retaining hat. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that 0123456789112345678921234567893123456789412345678951234567896123456789712345 1 weebl: What's this? | in recognition of the fun that is weebl and bob 2 bob: it a SigRuler! | check out the weebl and bob archive: 3 weebl: How Handy! | http://www.weebl.jolt.co.uk/archives.php >I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's >perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >the hubs. >Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas??? if it happens mostly when you hit a bump with one wheel, I'd reckon steering damper; the 110 used to do the same 'til I replaced it. also check: wheel balance wheel bearings ball joints steering box play main dampers and yes, swivel bearings/preload. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that "I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine... War is hell" Gen. Sherman (1820-1891) Attr. words in Address at Michigan Military Academy, 19 June 1879. >if it happens mostly when you hit a bump with one wheel, I'd reckon steering >damper; the 110 used to do the same 'til I replaced it. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >main dampers >and yes, swivel bearings/preload. The real answer is probably "all of the above", insofar as that attention to each of the items above is likely to yield some improvement (unless they have recently been attended to). . You could feasibly have the original dampers and ball joints on there (certainly well on the way to shagged if so) contributing just a little play and vagueness. Add in lack of preload, a bit of adjustment in the steering box, a bit of play in the wheel bearings and wheel balance that isn't spot on and it adds up to a handling nightmare. It's just a matter of working out where the biggest contribution is coming from and whether you can live with what remains. To "fix this right" I'd want to have the whole lot checked over. The parts are all pretty cheap, so once it's in the air with the wheels off it won't cost much more to fully sort it. I've been here - cheap fix to the steering damper made no odds, so I had it fully fettled with great results. As was said previously - the damper is just covering up play that shouldn't ideally be there in the first place. SignatureTim Hobbs '58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig" '77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt" '03 Volvo V70 >To "fix this right" I'd want to have the whole lot checked over. The >parts are all pretty cheap, so once it's in the air with the wheels [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >As was said previously - the damper is just covering up play that >shouldn't ideally be there in the first place. All good advice. Mind, the damper is probably the easiest bit of all to change :-) ball joints are easily checked, in the same way that they do on the MOT: have someone shake the steering wheel back and fore about 1/4 turn max. and watch the joints for movement. ball joints can be a piece of wossname to change or can be an absolute bastard. changing the RHS one on our 300 TDi had me resorting to an oxy torch to heat the rod in order to shift it. When I put it back, it had copper grease in the threads, pity LR don't do that in the first place. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that "Where they make a desert they call it peace" Tacitus (c.55 - c.117) Agricola, 30 Our 95 did the same. I had the wheels balanced but it was still the same. Set pre load on swivels, it helped a bit. Shiney new steering damper, that helped a bit more. The garage who changed the damper suggested getting the wheels balanced at a place that when they balance the wheel on their machine it is held on by the same holes aas the wheel bolts and NOT on the centre hole like most as they have had problems with the centre hole not being dead centre. Anyway, did as he said and now havent got any steering shake/wobble all the way up to 95mph (on a private road of course!!). Richard > I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's > perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph you [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Dave >> > I've just become owner of a L reg 200 Tdi Disco. Mechanically it's > > perfect except for one annoying trait. At speeds above about 40 mph you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > the hubs. > > Has anyone experienced this or have any ideas??? Further to all the above, get the tyres checked for roundness - if they are wearing unevenly in places around the circumference that will cause a wobble. In that case it's shocks. Mine had a dreadful understeer with duff shocks too. I didn't realise what it was as it passed MOT like this, but thanks to advice from others on this ng the problem was solved. They were only about 20 quid for the pair too. TonyB |
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