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Car Forum / Land Rover Cars / January 2006Rivinut
WTF is a rivinut, and how do you install them? All i want to do is fit a snorkel! Mark 9090 >WTF is a rivinut, and how do you install them? > >All i want to do is fit a snorkel! It's a rivet _and_ a nut. IOW, you put it in like a rivet, however the head, instead of being a little round hole, is actually threaded - to make a nut.  Signature"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005 > It's a rivet _and_ a nut. IOW, you put it in like a rivet, however > the head, instead of being a little round hole, is actually threaded - > to make a nut. And you set them with nut and bolt. Put the nut right down the bolt to the head and right through the rivnut, then unscrew the nut down the bolt, while holding the head of the bolt steady. The nut pulls the core of the rivnut against the panel and locks it. Steve ...and Steve spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying... >> It's a rivet _and_ a nut. IOW, you put it in like a rivet, however >> the head, instead of being a little round hole, is actually threaded [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve Do you know where you can get them? As in another thread, I am moving the rear ladder over to the new car and I need a few. SignatureRich ============================== Disco 300 Tdi auto S2a 88" SW Tiggrr (V8 trialler) > Do you know where you can get them? As in another thread, I am moving the > rear ladder over to the new car and I need a few. What size ? I have some M10, but that does seem a bit big.There are some M8 and M6, somewhere. Let me know what you want. Steve ...and Steve spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying... >> Do you know where you can get them? As in another thread, I am >> moving the rear ladder over to the new car and I need a few. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Steve Well, it's got to support a rear ladder which will take my weight, so M500 sounds right :-) ISTR the holes I drilled originally were about 5mm, if that makes sense. This is a new fitting, though, so I can drill to suit. SignatureRich ============================== Disco 300 Tdi auto S2a 88" SW Tiggrr (V8 trialler) > Well, it's got to support a rear ladder which will take my weight, so M500 > sounds right :-) > > ISTR the holes I drilled originally were about 5mm, if that makes sense. > This is a new fitting, though, so I can drill to suit. This doesn't sound like a particularly robust method for mounting a ladder which has to take the weight of a person+what they're carrying. What are you drilling into? (if Steve can't find his M6/M8 ones give me a shout and I can post you some, I wouldn't like to go much smaller) Regards William MacLeod ...and willie@macleod-group.com spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying... >> Well, it's got to support a rear ladder which will take my weight, >> so M500 sounds right :-) [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > William MacLeod Well, it's what the ladder (LR part) came with, and it stood up to my <cough> stone clambering up and down. The ladder has a top bracket that fits over the top edge of the door, so that takes the majority of the weight. There are two fasteners to hold the top in position and two just below the number plate light to do likewise for the bottom. I'll go and measure it up shortly. SignatureRich ============================== Disco 300 Tdi auto S2a 88" SW Tiggrr (V8 trialler) >This doesn't sound like a particularly robust method for mounting a >ladder which has to take the weight of a person+what they're carrying. Swot Land Rover designed. Mine on the 200tdi Disco was the same. Ladder was quite fine - hinges took a pounding, though... ... not that I'm, erm... ...and Mother" <"@ {mother} @ spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying... >> This doesn't sound like a particularly robust method for mounting a >> ladder which has to take the weight of a person+what they're [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > ... not that I'm, erm... well, no, erm, me neither... SignatureRich ============================== Disco 300 Tdi auto S2a 88" SW Tiggrr (V8 trialler) >> Swot Land Rover designed. Mine on the 200tdi Disco was the same. >> Ladder was quite fine - hinges took a pounding, though... >> >> ... not that I'm, erm... > >well, no, erm, me neither... Indeed, as the twenty seven 8" x 10" colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us, proves... :-) SignatureKid, have you rehabilitated yourself? ...and Mother" <"@ {mother} @ spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying... >>> Swot Land Rover designed. Mine on the 200tdi Disco was the same. >>> Ladder was quite fine - hinges took a pounding, though... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining > what each one was to be used as evidence against us, proves... :-) <fx> ba-dah dum dum...</fx> SignatureRich ============================== Disco 300 Tdi auto S2a 88" SW Tiggrr (V8 trialler) ...and Steve spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying... >> Do you know where you can get them? As in another thread, I am >> moving the rear ladder over to the new car and I need a few. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Steve I've measured the holes in the ladder and they are 8mm. I don't know what that translates to in rivnut sizes. If you could send me 4 (plus one for luck? I mangled a couple last time) that would be great. If you send me your address I will send you the cost of postage plus a "charitable donation" - would that be OK? My address is richard.brookman@btinternet.com - reply addy is spoofed. Many thanks Rich SignatureRich ============================== Disco 300 Tdi auto S2a 88" SW Tiggrr (V8 trialler) >If you send me >your address I will send you the cost of postage plus a "charitable >donation" - would that be OK? You could sponsor him and Lizzie in the Mac4x4. The first time a 101 has competed I believe, so prolly the first time a 101 has won? :-) Signature"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005 > I've measured the holes in the ladder and they are 8mm. I don't know what > that translates to in rivnut sizes. If you could send me 4 (plus one for > luck? I mangled a couple last time) that would be great. If you send me > your address I will send you the cost of postage plus a "charitable > donation" - would that be OK? Hi Rich, That's M8 ones then. I'll have a look on Monday. Steve ...and Steve spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying... >> I've measured the holes in the ladder and they are 8mm. I don't >> know what that translates to in rivnut sizes. If you could send me [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve Many thanks O helpful one. SignatureRich ============================== Disco 300 Tdi auto S2a 88" SW Tiggrr (V8 trialler) >> I've measured the holes in the ladder and they are 8mm. I don't know >> what that translates to in rivnut sizes. If you could send me 4 (plus [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve Emmm! More like M6 (if metric) or the nut has zero wall thickness! >>> I've measured the holes in the ladder and they are 8mm. I don't know >>> what that translates to in rivnut sizes. If you could send me 4 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Emmm! More like M6 (if metric) or the nut has zero wall thickness! What ? and 2mm of clearance ? Seems excessive. Steve >>> I've measured the holes in the ladder and they are 8mm. I don't know >>> what that translates to in rivnut sizes. If you could send me 4 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Emmm! More like M6 (if metric) or the nut has zero wall thickness! I didn't read that closely enough! Oops. ...and Steve spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying... >> I've measured the holes in the ladder and they are 8mm. I don't >> know what that translates to in rivnut sizes. If you could send me [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve Hi Steve Did you find any? Thanks SignatureRich ============================== Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. > ...and Steve spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying... > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks A few, but I forgot to tell you. How many do you want ? Steve ...and Steve spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying... >> ...and Steve spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying... >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Steve Half a dozen would be great, if you can spare them. Let me know as in above post and I'll send the postage on. I'll mail you my address off-group. Thanks. SignatureRich ============================== Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. >> It's a rivet _and_ a nut. IOW, you put it in like a rivet, however >> the head, instead of being a little round hole, is actually threaded - [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >bolt, while holding the head of the bolt steady. The nut pulls the core >of the rivnut against the panel and locks it. There is actually a proper tool for inserting them. Which is far quicker if you have a lot to do. Alex >>> It's a rivet _and_ a nut. IOW, you put it in like a rivet, however >>> the head, instead of being a little round hole, is actually [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Alex It's like a rivet gun with a screw thread 'shaft' yes? Nige SignatureSubaru WRX Range Rover LSE (Bob) '"gimme the f*ckin' money" >> There is actually a proper tool for inserting them. Which is far >> quicker if you have a lot to do. >> >> Alex > > It's like a rivet gun with a screw thread 'shaft' yes? They are, 'kin 'kin expensive though. So the nuts and bolt methods is pretty good.... Steve >>> There is actually a proper tool for inserting them. Which is far >>> quicker if you have a lot to do. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >So the nuts and bolt methods is pretty good.... but only if you can get access to the other side of the panel. Which slightly defeats the object - if the other side of the panel is accessible, nothing to stop you fitting an ordinary nut to it... The particular benefit of the rivnuts, AIUI, is the ability to insert 'em into blind spaces. don't they need a square hole? If not, what stops the bugger going round inside when you try to remove the bolt? SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "There is plenty of time to win this game, and to thrash the Spaniards too" Sir Francis Drake (1540? - 1596) Attr. saying when the Armarda was sighted, 20th July 1588 > >>> There is actually a proper tool for inserting them. Which is far > >>> quicker if you have a lot to do. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > don't they need a square hole? If not, what stops the bugger going round > inside when you try to remove the bolt? Front the sound of it, rivnuts are another name for nuserts. To fit nutserts you can just get a bit if tube (with a "handle" welded on idealy) and a bolt through it. Place it with the nutsert on the end where it needs to go and tighten the bolt against the tube (the end of the nutsert is threaded) which crushes it into place on the body/chassis/ whatever. Unecrsew the bolt, remove the tube and off you go. Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!! Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay >> So the nuts and bolt methods is pretty good.... > > but only if you can get access to the other side of the panel. No, you pull it all from the front, not squashing it from the back aces. > don't they need a square hole? If not, what stops the bugger going round > inside when you try to remove the bolt? By then its clamped like buggery to the panel.... Steve >>> So the nuts and bolt methods is pretty good.... >> >> but only if you can get access to the other side of the panel. > >No, you pull it all from the front, not squashing it from the back >aces. ah. I misunderstood your comments. >> don't they need a square hole? If not, what stops the bugger going round >> inside when you try to remove the bolt? >By then its clamped like buggery to the panel.... hmmmm. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that "My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent. I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929) >>> don't they need a square hole? If not, what stops the bugger going >>> round >>> inside when you try to remove the bolt? >>By then its clamped like buggery to the panel.... > > hmmmm. I'll second that - the base plate for the capstan winch on my series 1 was fastened to the front cross member in this manner. After 20 years there was no way the friction of the rivnut in the hole was any match for the friction of the rusty bolt thread. At least carefully grinding the bolt heads and then the rivnut itself left the original hole the right size to take another rivnut. I think you need to think of them as "one time only". Nick > I'll second that - the base plate for the capstan winch on my series 1 was > fastened to the front cross member in this manner. After 20 years there was > no way the friction of the rivnut in the hole was any match for the friction > of the rusty bolt thread. At least carefully grinding the bolt heads and > then the rivnut itself left the original hole the right size to take another > rivnut. I think you need to think of them as "one time only". Stainless ones are ok - they come undone properly even after extended service in the wet and mud. SignatureEMB ...and Steve Taylor spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying... >>> So the nuts and bolt methods is pretty good.... >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Steve Problem with rivnuts is that if you drill the hole even fractionally too large, there is no friction on the riv bit (of the rivnut) and you can't stop it turning as you extract the bolt. I damaged two of them in trying (mole grips etc) and ended up having to strip out the door lining and fit a proper bolt through. The location of the holes is behing the door lock, so I ended up soldering the bolt to a length of stiff wire to get it into the right position. Whole job took most of a day. That's why I need to do it right next time! SignatureRich ============================== Disco 300 Tdi auto S2a 88" SW Tiggrr (V8 trialler) > Problem with rivnuts is that if you drill the hole even fractionally too > large, there is no friction on the riv bit (of the rivnut) and you can't > stop it turning as you extract the bolt. Buy the proper size drill bit to go with them - they are supposed to fit in an oddball sized hole - IIRC 8.6mm for M6 rivnuts, and 10.6 for M8 ones. SignatureEMB > ...and Steve Taylor spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying... > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > right position. Whole job took most of a day. That's why I need to do it > right next time! There are many variants of these around some of which have non-round or serrated bodies to avoid this problem - Böllhoff do a hexagonal body for example: http://www.bollhoff.com/web/germany/en/web.nsf/HTML/r_plus.html http://www.bollhoff.com/web/germany/en/web.nsf/HTML/r_sonderausfuehrungen.html as do Avdel: http://www.avdel.textron.com/brochures/threaded_inserts/html_tables/9498.htm It's not so easy to make the hole though. Avoid the varieties with thin outer flanges e.g. thin sheet Nutsert: http://www.avdel.textron.com/brochures/threaded_inserts/html_tables/9658.htm - they need an essentially flat surface and have no tolerance of oversize or out-of-round holes. You're far batter with a variety that does not end up flush with the surface if you can tolerate that: http://www.avdel.textron.com/brochures/threaded_inserts/html_tables/9408.htm If you have trouble with the insert rotating as you tighten the bolt, temporarily fit a spring washer against the outer face of the insert and behind something that will act as a counterhold (this could be the bracket that you are attaching) while you tighten the bolt. Once the insert has been compressed, dismantle, remove washer and reassemble. Bollhoff now have a min order £75 so unless you need loadsa rivnuts forget it ;-( Roy. >> ...and Steve Taylor spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying... >> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > that you are attaching) while you tighten the bolt. Once the insert has > been compressed, dismantle, remove washer and reassemble. > Bollhoff now have a min order £75 so unless you need loadsa rivnuts forget > it ;-( > > Roy. <shameless plug> We have various nutserts in stock - 22p to 54p depending on size, M5 and M8 and (I think) M10, the others I've not noted their size but could probably work it out. They are widely used on late model vehicles for holding on mud flaps, side steps etc. </shameless plug> Richard > >> ...and Steve Taylor spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying... > >> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > that you are attaching) while you tighten the bolt. Once the insert has > > been compressed, dismantle, remove washer and reassemble. Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!! Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay >> Bollhoff now have a min order £75 so unless you need loadsa rivnuts forget >> it ;-( [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > </shameless plug> How about tool rental too ? Steve > >> Bollhoff now have a min order £75 so unless you need loadsa rivnuts forget > >> it ;-( [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Steve It's a thought, but I just use the space and bolt method. Richard Signaturewww.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!! Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay > How about tool rental too ? If any regular on this group needs a shot of a rivnut tool then drop me a line, beware postage costs would probably be about a fiver each way in the uk, the kit isn't light. Selection of rivnuts with it, you pay for any used @ Richard's prices or just replace them yourself. Does from M3 to M8. If Richard decides to offer rental commercially then this offer stops. Regards William MacLeod > >So the nuts and bolt methods is pretty good.... > > but only if you can get access to the other side of the panel. Which > slightly defeats the object - if the other side of the panel is accessible, > nothing to stop you fitting an ordinary nut to it... The particular benefit > of the rivnuts, AIUI, is the ability to insert 'em into blind spaces. No, you're not understanding that correctly Austin, the method described only requires access from one side, and is a pretty good method really. I have a tool for doing them and it is quicker with it, but both give you the same result. > don't they need a square hole? If not, what stops the bugger going round > inside when you try to remove the bolt? Round hole, part of the nut has collapsed in a engineered way and pressed against the panel/sheet whatever and is holding that tight so the bolt removes easily. They are really handy things. Regards William MacLeod Hi Steve Im still trying to get this bloody snorkel fitted... Ive got the rivnut, bolt and nut in place now, but when im unscrewing the nut, the whole rivnut is turning.... Any ideas? Mark. 9090 > > It's a rivet _and_ a nut. IOW, you put it in like a rivet, however > > the head, instead of being a little round hole, is actually threaded - [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve > Hi Steve > > Im still trying to get this bloody snorkel fitted... > > Ive got the rivnut, bolt and nut in place now, but when im unscrewing the > nut, the whole rivnut is turning.... This of course is why you really need the ('kin) expensive setting tool. Phew, er, can you nip the edge of the rivnut without marring the paintwork ? Stick a piece of masking tape round it to protect the surface. Failing that, where are you ? Steve >>WTF is a rivinut, and how do you install them? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >the head, instead of being a little round hole, is actually threaded - >to make a nut. Is that what those avdelock rivets that i see referenced to in sixstud are like? (I've never noticed any special rivets on my 101 but ive only really played with the Marshalls bit of it not the LR bit) > WTF is a rivinut, and how do you install them? > > All i want to do is fit a snorkel! > > Mark > 9090 They have a brand name round here of Gesipa Bushes i believe! Nige SignatureSubaru WRX Range Rover LSE (Bob) '"gimme the f*ckin' money" > > WTF is a rivinut, and how do you install them? > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Nige I got some from Car Builder Solutions Tel: 01580 891309. Gerald > WTF is a rivinut, and how do you install them? > > All i want to do is fit a snorkel! > > Mark > 9090 Hello again. Something strange happened to me today. I happened to call into a Main Dealer to ask about servicing, and happened to mention the need of a rivnut installation.... 1 land rover mechanic, and the correct tool, and both rivnuts were in. And they didnt charge me. It is good to know that there are some half decent dealers out there! They were just happy to help. Or was it because their eyes lit up when i mentoned it needs the cambelt doing and a service.............................. Mark 9090 > Or was it because their eyes lit up when i mentoned it needs the cambelt > doing and a service.............................. I'd imagine that helped, a 24,000 mile service and a cambelt replacement cost me £1,000 recently. The brakes still pull to the right despite them stripping and cleaning the fronts and finding stuck pistons and leaky seals. I suspect it's the rears, the rear driver's side locks up a long time before the passenger side when I leap on the pedal. Blasted fecking confounded heap of ol' junk! SignatureBlast off and strike the evil Bydo empire! >The brakes still pull to the right despite them stripping and cleaning >the fronts and finding stuck pistons and leaky seals. I suspect it's >the rears, the rear driver's side locks up a long time before the >passenger side when I leap on the pedal. rear calipers are just as likely to seize, and less likely to get looked at. SignatureAustin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic face by frightening people in the street. from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton. >They were just happy to help. > > Or was it because their eyes lit up when i mentoned it needs the cambelt > doing and a service.............................. Naaaaahh. Steve >They were just happy to help. > > Or was it because their eyes lit up when i mentoned it needs the cambelt > doing and a service.............................. Naaaaahh. Steve Mark, don't try the nut n bolt method if your going any bigger than M4 you'll never get enough pressure to crush the nutsert witihout maybe snapping the bolt. These are very common in sheet metal work, I'm sure if you find a local one they would gladly put these in for you, if not for free than for a reasonable fee. I would go for M6 as these are the most common ones found on LR, they keep the roof over your head. Unfortunately the tools are very expensive I am lucky enough to use them at work and have battery and manual options, petty your not near Wolverhampton. HTH, Roy. > WTF is a rivinut, and how do you install them? > > All i want to do is fit a snorkel! > > Mark > 9090 |
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