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Car Forum / Lexus Cars / July 2005'98 ES300 for $9000... Good deal?
I found a '98 ES300 with 40k miles for $9,000. I haven't looked at the car, but the seller says that it's in excellent condition. And the seller's not a car dealer. Is that a good deal for this car? Since my budget's about $9K-$10K, is it possible that I could find a better deal than this? I'm looking for something that's a '98 model or newer. Thanks. The 98 ES is by most reports an excellent used car. The low miles is an extra incentive to buy. The 98 ES has a very good repair history. The price is about where it should be for a private seller, maybe a little low. A dealership would probably get around $11k for it. But is it really the proverbial cream-puff? Here's some things to check; If the miles shown are right: -Is it a 1-owner car? (If multi-owner, the mileage is suspect) -Check the brake pedal & driver's mat for signs of wear - should be almost none for this low mileage -Check the trunk. If miles are right the spare tire should be brand new and everything should be there under the pad, all nice and neat. -Look at the door glass. There should be *NO* signs of any up/down wear -Raise the hood - if miles are right things might appear a little dusty but otherwise should look literally as-new. There should be -NO- signs of any fluid seepage. Nothing should be greasy. Battery lugs should have boots over them and should not be all skinned up or missing. Serpentine belt should be original. Note that the hood may not stay open without holding it. This would be normal for a 7~8 year old Lexus, as the hood struts dry out over time. -Raise the car on a lift and pull all 4 wheels. If miles are right, brake pads should be originals and probably about 1/2 worn. If they look either nearly new or nearly worn out, the miles are wrong. If deluxe wheels make sure the wheel lock adapter is there (in the trunk). -While it's up, look at the exhaust system. If the miles are right this will all be original w/no evidence of any welding. -Again while it's up, look at the engine area. If the original cover is gone this might be a clue that something's not right. At the very least it would indicate servicing has been done at non-Lexus shops. Has anyone ever smoked in it? (if yes this would be a major "minus" to me) (check ashtrays and cig lighter cores for evidence of use) When you first got in it did you notice -any- unusual odor, such as mildew or any perfumy-like odor that might be there to cover-up odors? Any evidence of cat litter anywhere, i.e., in the ashtrays or under seats? (cat litter is used to absorb odors, especially in flood vehicles) By all means, get the VIN number and run a CARFAX report on it. Best $20 you'll ever spend. No, it won't tell you everything but what it will tell you is still worth the cost of the report. Has the car ever been titled in a flood state? (Texas, Florida, Louisiana) If leather seats, if there's any cracking or splits it should be very minimal. If you discover anything that might suggest the seller is being less than truthful, walk away. >I found a '98 ES300 with 40k miles for $9,000. I haven't looked at the car, >but the seller says that it's in excellent condition. And the seller's not a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Thanks. > But is it really the proverbial cream-puff? Here's some things to > check; An excellent set of recommendations, among the best summary I've seen of 'what to look for'. Thanks, New Owner. > The 98 ES is by most reports an excellent used car. The low miles is an > extra incentive to buy. The 98 ES has a very good repair history. [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] >> >>Thanks. Awesome post, dude. Thanks for the post. I looked at the vehicle from the outside (the owner wasn't there) and it looks pretty good. When I do the actual check with the owner, I'll print your post so I can go step-by-step. I did do the CarFax check. The concerns I have are that it was purchased in NJ, it was in an accident in NY, and it is now in PR (outside of the US). It was checked for 8 types of registrations (I don't know what this means) but it's only had one owner. And it has 43K miles. This is all according to carfax. Here's the report: ************************************************************************ Report Generated for Joe Hernandez For Personal Use Only A CARFAX Vehicle History Report is based only on information supplied to CARFAX. Other information about this vehicle, including problems, may not have been reported to CARFAX. Use this report as one important tool, along with a vehicle inspection and test drive, to make a better decision about your next used car. Good News -- Vehicle qualifies for the CARFAX Buyback Guarantee! No severe problems (major accidents, fire, flood damage, major odometer problems or lemon history) were ever reported by a Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) for this 1998 LEXUS ES 300 (JT8BF28G8W5035562). If you find that any of these severe problems were reported by a DMV and not included in this report, CARFAX will buy this vehicle back. CARFAX Talking CarTM The story of this 1998 LEXUS ES 300 (JT8BF28G8W5035562) according to our interpretation of the information reported to CARFAX: This sedan has had 1 owner in New Jersey. It was originally registered as a corporate fleet vehicle. It was owned by a company that manages its own fleet of vehicles. These vehicles are typically used by smaller companies like banks or firms for business purposes. It was involved in an accident in New York that was reported to the police. It has had no DMV-reported total loss events, like a major accident, fire or flood. It has not been reported by a DMV as having an Exceeds Mechanical Limits or Not Actual Mileage title. It has a consistent mileage history with no indication of an odometer rollback. The last odometer reading, reported on 04/08/1999, was 10,566 miles. It was not reported by a DMV as a Manufacturer Buyback (LEMON). Its basic warranty has expired. You may want to discuss an extended warranty with your dealer. Go to the Detailed Vehicle History for the complete history and a glossary of terms. Report Summary 1. ACCIDENT CHECK Total Loss Check No Severe Accidents Reported by a DMV - Buyback Guarantee! Other Accident Indicators Accident Indicator Reported 2. MILEAGE ACCURACY CHECK Truth-In-Mileage Check No Odometer Problems Reported by a DMV - Buyback Guarantee! Odometer Rollback Check No Potential Odometer Rollback Found Mileage Consistency Check No Inconsistent Odometer Reading Found 3. LEMON CHECK® No Mfr. Buyback Reported by a DMV - Buyback Guarantee! 4. OWNERSHIP CHECK Number of Owners 1 Estimated Owner(s) Type of Owners Originally Registered as a Corporate Fleet Vehicle 5. RECALL CHECK LEXUS Does Not Report Recalls to CARFAX 6. WARRANTY CHECK No Coverage Remaining on Basic Warranty. Interested in an Extended Warranty? DETAILED VEHICLE HISTORY 7 HISTORY RECORDS REPORTED Tell us what you know about this vehicle Year/Make/Model: 1998 LEXUS ES 300 Body Style: SEDAN 4 DR Engine: 3.0L V6 SFI DOHC ALUM Fuel: GASOLINE Driveline: FRONT WHEEL DRIVE Manufactured in: JAPAN Safety Equipment: 4 wheel ABS, Dual air bags front and sides/active (manual) belts Standard Equipment: Power Windows, Power Steering, Air Conditioning, AM / FM Cassette, Power Brakes, Tilt Wheel, 6-digit Odometer Total Loss Check: GOOD NEWS! No severe damage events were ever reported by a DMV for this 1998 LEXUS ES 300 (JT8BF28G8W5035562). If you find that any of the following severe problems were reported by a DMV and not included in this report, CARFAX will buy this vehicle back. You must register to activate this free guarantee! Salvage Title Loss Due To Fire Title Junk Title Flood Damage Title Rebuilt/Reconstructed Title Hail Damage Title Dismantled Title Canadian Total Loss Other Accident Indicators: This 1998 LEXUS ES 300 (JT8BF28G8W5035562) had accident indicators reported to CARFAX from its sources. This section checks for accidents and/or related damage reported from many public and private sources. Not all accidents are reported to CARFAX. A vehicle inspection completed by your dealer or professional mechanic is recommended. No Salvage Auction Record Reported No Crash Test Vehicle Record Reported No Fire Damage Record Reported No Airbag Deployment Record Reported No Frame Damage Record Reported No Damage Disclosure Record Reported Police Accident Record Reported No Collision Repair Facility Record Reported Accident Indicators Detail: Date: Source: Detail: 12/09/1999 New York Police Report Accident Reported Vehicle involved in crash with another motor vehicle New York Police Reports: Do not include an assessment of damage severity Are processed if the estimated damage exceeds $1000 Are released to CARFAX approximately 3 months after the accident date According to the National Safety Council, Injury Facts, 2003 edition, 12% of the 243 million registered vehicles in the U.S. were involved in an accident in 2002. Over 90% of these were considered minor or moderate. CARFAX depends on public and private sources for its accident data. Each one of these sources has different processing times. CARFAX can only report what is in our database on 10.Jul.2005 13:52:33. New data will result in a change to this report. Not all accidents are reported to the Police. Tell us if you know of other fender benders, accidents or damage. Truth-In-Mileage Check: GOOD NEWS! No major odometer problems were ever reported by a DMV under the Truth-In-Mileage Act for this 1998 LEXUS ES 300 (JT8BF28G8W5035562). If you find that any of the following odometer problems were reported by a DMV and not included in this report, CARFAX will buy this vehicle back. You must register to activate this free guarantee! Not Actual Mileage Title - issued by DMV when the owner discloses mileage fraud or a broken odometer. Exceeds Mechanical Limits Title - issued by DMV when the owner discloses an odometer rollover. Odometer Rollback Check: CARFAX found no odometer rollbacks for this 1998 LEXUS ES 300 (JT8BF28G8W5035562). Rollbacks reported in this section originate from readings collected by a DMV or other verifiable source. Mileage Consistency Check: CARFAX found no inconsistent odometer readings in the mileage history of this 1998 LEXUS ES 300 (JT8BF28G8W5035562). Date: Mileage: 03/17/1998 10 04/08/1999 10,566 Do you know this vehicle's current mileage? Tell us and help protect others from mileage fraud. GOOD NEWS! No manufacturer buyback was ever reported by a DMV for this 1998 LEXUS ES 300 (JT8BF28G8W5035562). If you find that a manufacturer buyback was reported by a DMV and not included in this report, CARFAX will buy this vehicle back. You must register to activate this free guarantee! Ownership History: CARFAX estimates that this 1998 LEXUS ES 300 (JT8BF28G8W5035562) had 1 owner(s). CARFAX analyzed this vehicle's title history and other supporting events to identify potential ownership transfers. In compliance with the U.S. privacy laws, CARFAX does not collect or report owner names or addresses. Estimated Owners: Date: Location: 1st owner 03/17/1998 New Jersey CARFAX AdvisorTM The cost of ownership varies by vehicle. Go to Edmunds.com to check the recommended service schedule and estimated costs for this vehicle. Types of Owners: This 1998 LEXUS ES 300 (JT8BF28G8W5035562) was checked for 8 types of registrations. No Personal Use Registration Reported Fleet Registration Reported No Lease Registration Reported No Commercial Registration Reported No Rental Registration Reported No Non-Profit Registration Reported No Taxi Registration Reported No Built to Non U.S. Standards Record Reported Do you have information about how this vehicle was used or driven? Tell us what you know. LEXUS does not report recall information for specific vehicles to CARFAX. Go to the CARFAX SAFETY & RELIABILITY REPORT for recalls issued by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration for the 1998 LEXUS ES 300. You can also contact an authorized dealership or LEXUS at 1-800-255-3987 to find out if this 1998 LEXUS ES 300 (JT8BF28G8W5035562) still has recalls that require repair. For your convenience, CARFAX has estimated the remaining original manufacturer warranty coverage based on information reported to us on this 1998 LEXUS ES 300 (JT8BF28G8W5035562). Please confirm remaining factory warranty and extended warranty options with your dealer. Interested in an extended warranty? Estimated start date of warranty: 03/17/1998 Last reading reported on 04/08/1999: 10,566 miles Recalculate with current mileage Today's Date: July 10, 2005 Type of Coverage: Original Warranty: Estimated Remaining Coverage: Basic 48 months or 50,000 miles Coverage expired Drivetrain 72 months or 70,000 miles Coverage expired Emissions 24 months or 24,000 miles Coverage expired Corrosion 72 months or unlimited mileage Coverage expired Transferable Transferable at no cost Same Roadside Assistance 48 months or unlimited mileage Coverage expired Safety Belt & Inflatable Restraint 72 months or 70,000 miles Coverage expired Specific Components 96 months or 80,000 miles 9 months or 69,434 miles Notes: Manufacturer covers emissions components under basic warranty. Emissions coverage may vary by state. Refer to owners manual for specific details. Transferable: no cost, unlimited owners covered. First two maintenance services are at no charge. Alignment and wheel balance are limited to 1 years or 20,000 miles. Basic warranty includes surface corrosion and batteries. CARFAX Warranty Check provides an estimate of this vehicle's remaining warranty coverage. It does not take into account some vehicle history events. For example, major accidents resulting in Salvage or Junk titles that may void the original manufacturer warranty or ownership transfers that may decrease warranty coverage. This warranty information is only valid for vehicles manufactured for sale in the US. Complete warranty coverage information is available for this vehicle at the LEXUS web site. CARFAX searched more than 3 billion records from over 5,300 sources and found 7 record(s) for this 1998 LEXUS ES 300 (JT8BF28G8W5035562). Date: Mileage Reading: Source: General Comments: 02/26/1998 NICB Vehicle manufactured and shipped to original dealer 03/17/1998 10 New Jersey Motor Vehicle Dept. Oakhurst, NJ Title issued or updated First owner reported 03/17/1998 New Jersey Motor Vehicle Dept. Oakhurst, NJ Registered as corporate fleet vehicle 04/08/1999 10,566 New York Inspection Station New York City Area Passed safety inspection 06/21/1999 New York Motor Vehicle Dept. Title issued or updated 12/09/1999 New York Police Report Case #9-642013 Accident Reported Vehicle involved in crash with another motor vehicle 09/21/2001 Puerto Rico Motor Vehicle Dept. Bayamon, PR Title #5678832 Title or registration issued Tell us what you know about this vehicle Detailed Vehicle History Definitions: Accident CARFAX receives information on accidents in most states when an official police report is filed. The level of detail in the accident record varies by state depending on the state's accident report requirements. CARFAX recommends you obtain a vehicle inspection from your dealer or an independent mechanic for any car involved in an accident. First Owner When the first owner(s) obtains a title from a Department of Motor Vehicles as proof of ownership. Fleet Vehicle Vehicle was registered or sold to a company that manages vehicle fleets. Register FREE Guarantee | CARFAX Help Center CARFAX BUYBACK GUARANTEE If you find that any of these severe problems were reported by a Department of Motor Vehicles and were not included in this report, CARFAX will buy this vehicle back. Severe Damage: Odometer Problems: Lemon History: Salvage/Junk Rebuilt/Reconstructed Dismantled Fire/Flood/Hail Canadian Total Loss Exceeds Mechanical Limits Not Actual Mileage Manufacturer Buyback Your CARFAX Buyback Coverage: Vehicle: Transferable Coverage: Activation: 1998 LEXUS ES 300 JT8BF28G8W5035562 07/10/2005 - 07/10/2006 REQUIRED -- ACTIVATE TODAY! Activation Required Go to www.carfax.com Terms and Conditions Apply CARFAX agrees to buy this vehicle back from the holder of this Vehicle History Report if the report indicates the vehicle qualifies for the CARFAX Buyback Guarantee and a Branded Title, as fully defined in the Terms and Conditions, actually exists for this vehicle. YOU MUST REGISTER TO ACTIVATE THIS FREE GUARANTEE (www.carfax.com) in order to be eligible for payment. View Terms and Conditions (www.carfax.com/guarantee/hctermsanddef.cfm). ************************************************************************ >Thanks for the post. I looked at the vehicle from the outside (the owner >wasn't there) and it looks pretty good. When I do the actual check with the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >but it's only had one owner. And it has 43K miles. This is all according >to carfax. Well, the fact that CARFAX has no mileage history on this vehicle after 10,566 miles in 1999 would probably concern me a little. However, if it passes the "visual" inspections for ascertaining mileage I gave you then the miles are probably right. So far CARFAX has given us no reason to doubt the miles, just very little to go on to confirm them. Where has the car been since 1999 that it has managed to escape things like routine state emissions inspections, etc. How did it get to Puerto Rico and how long has it been there? LEXUS maintains their own computerized **DETAILED** vehicle histories, but whether they would make something like this available to an ordinary citizen such as yourself is probably doubtful. Their vehicle histories are a permanent record of every trip in to a LEXUS dealership that the car has made in its life along with the odometer readings and reason for service and list of services performed. Might be worth making friends with one of the service writers at your local Lexus dealership. Not that you would necessarily want to see these records yourself, but just have them look at the records on file and see if they see anything that might dispute or bring into question the current 43k mileage or that would constitute major repair. Can't hurt to ask, worse they can say is no. Offhand I would be inclined to say that barring any undiscovered issues, and meeting the self-inspection I recommended, a '98 ES300 with 43k on the clock for $9000 sounds like an excellent opportunity. If is passes the self-inspection, I'll definitely buy it. I did call the owner today and asked her about the NY accident but she said she had no idea how it happened. She did know that the car was purchased in NJ.... I'll be test-driving it on Wednesday to see how it goes. But my biggest concerns are the accident in NY and the 8 types of registrations , which I still don't understand what it means. Do you think that if it's registered as a corporate fleet vehicle, it should be in better or worse condition? I just don't wanna get stuck with a lemon..... BTW, does it use premium or regular? If it uses premium, do you think regular fuel will affect it mechanically or will it only affect the driving? Thanks again. > >Thanks for the post. I looked at the vehicle from the outside (the owner > >wasn't there) and it looks pretty good. When I do the actual check with the [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > and meeting the self-inspection I recommended, a '98 ES300 with 43k on the > clock for $9000 sounds like an excellent opportunity. >If is passes the self-inspection, I'll definitely buy it. >I did call the owner today and asked her about the NY accident but she said [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >BTW, does it use premium or regular? If it uses premium, do you think >regular fuel will affect it mechanically or will it only affect the driving? The ES300 has a 6-cyl engine which I'm pretty sure is designed to run on regular unleaded fuel. A "corporate fleet" vehicle could mean almost anything, especially since they had their own maintenance staff. At the worst, that could even mean a rental car. It could also mean one owned by a major corporation as a "pool car" (one available for use by employees on company business) or it could mean one furnished to a company executive for their own exclusive use. The latter of all these options would be the best and of course rental car could be the worst. Rental car companies tend to limit the number of miles put on one of their cars before geting rid of it, but the miles put on are typically "hard" miles. With the major car rental companies this is typically 12,000 miles before they dump them. On the other hand, a corporation furnishing "company cars" to a pool for general use, tend to run out the miles before getting rid of one. However, it would be unusual (in my opinion) for any corporation to be using LEXUS cars as "pool" cars. More likely it was executive driven, but this is just a guess. Your own physical inspection will tell you a lot. A 7~8 year old car with only 43k on it is practically new and the interior condition should affirm that fact. Lexus odometers are difficult to turn back, but are easy to replace with a used one from a salvage yard. While inspecting, look also at the rubber seals and britework (chrome) trim pieces (and even glass) for evidence of overspray (indicating bodywork). I'll be quite honest, the car being in PR is the only thing that piques my radar. I'd be really interested to learn why and how the car wound up there, of all places. I'd be sniffing that carpet with my best old black & tan hound ;-) looking for signs of flood damage. For a small fee the NJ dept of transportation will send you a title history on the car, showing the actual name(s) of the registered owner(s) while the car was registered in NJ - most states offer a similar service for a nominal fee. Good luck! I took a test-drive today and it moved pretty well. Then again, I have an old Volvo 240DL so I know nothing about cars that drive smoothly. I tried to follow your suggestions and went through all the points but I know nothing about cars so I wasn't sure what to look for. So I'll be taking a mechanic to check it. I did check the spare tire and it wasn't brand new. I called Lexus USA and the servicing wasn't done at a Lexus dealer. To be honest, I'm not sure I understand what's going on. When I asked him if the servicing was done at the Lexus, he said No because they have a garage at the dealer. So apparently the guy's a dealer and he's the one selling the car. But my doubt is that there's the person in NJ that originally purchased the car (that nobody here in PR knows about but is in the Carfax report), the owner of the car (a lady), and the guy that's selling the car (the dealer). Yet there's only one owner. How can that be? Also, the car is currently without the inspection sticker. So I'll have to pay for that (+$200). I also raised the hood and the engine doesn't look brand-new like you specified. But again, I don't really know how a brand-new engine should look like. To be honest, I've been searching for cars for several months and I have come to realize that cars that are imported from the states and sold here usually have high mileage. On the other hand, this car was purchased over there and imported to PR yet it only has 43,000 miles. It's really rare to see an imported vehicle with such low mileage. There are definitely some odd things going on. The problem is that I don't know if the seller(s) are being honest about it. Would it be possible to negotiate a lower price? How? It was originally at $9,900 but I told them that I had $8500 and I could go to $9000 if I made some sacrifices. Apparently, since they want the money upfront, they lowered to $9000. But I'd like to negotiate a lower price. THanks. > >If is passes the self-inspection, I'll definitely buy it. > >I did call the owner today and asked her about the NY accident but she said [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Good luck! When in doubt, leave it out. ============ BuckShot LeFunk == 1998 LS 400 1999 E320 4-Matic > I took a test-drive today and it moved pretty well. Then again, I have an > old Volvo 240DL so I know nothing about cars that drive smoothly. I tried [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] >> >>Good luck! > I took a test-drive today and it moved pretty well. Then again, I have an > old Volvo 240DL so I know nothing about cars that drive smoothly. I tried [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > THanks. Sometimes the best deal is the deal you don't make. How hard is it to have car shipped to PR if you can get a good deal in say Florida? It wouldn't be that hard. But how can I find a "good deal" in Florida? Thanks. > > I took a test-drive today and it moved pretty well. Then again, I have an > > old Volvo 240DL so I know nothing about cars that drive smoothly. I tried [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Sometimes the best deal is the deal you don't make. How hard is it to have > car shipped to PR if you can get a good deal in say Florida? >I did check the spare tire and it wasn't brand new. I called Lexus USA and >the servicing wasn't done at a Lexus dealer. To be honest, I'm not sure I >understand what's going on. When I asked him if the servicing was done at >the Lexus, he said No because they have a garage at the dealer. So >apparently the guy's a dealer and he's the one selling the car. Run, run, run like a bunny, before they get their hands on your money! The miles are wrong. >To be honest, I've been searching for cars for several months and I have >come to realize that cars that are imported from the states and sold here >usually have high mileage. On the other hand, this car was purchased over >there and imported to PR yet it only has 43,000 miles. It's really rare to >see an imported vehicle with such low mileage. >There are definitely some odd things going on. The problem is that I don't >know if the seller(s) are being honest about it. Trust your instincts. If you're not comfortable, there's probably a good reason. >Would it be possible to negotiate a lower price? How? It was originally at >$9,900 but I told them that I had $8500 and I could go to $9000 if I made >some sacrifices. Apparently, since they want the money upfront, they >lowered to $9000. But I'd like to negotiate a lower price. Just from what you've already told us, I'd walk away. Even with a lower price I don't want to deal with someone who has lied to me or acted in deceptive ways. Sounds like there's no auditable trail on the title history. Leave it alone. There are many other good deals available. Too many unknowns. ============ BuckShot LeFunk == 1998 LS 400 1999 E320 4-Matic > If is passes the self-inspection, I'll definitely buy it. > I did call the owner today and asked her about the NY accident but she said [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] >>and meeting the self-inspection I recommended, a '98 ES300 with 43k on the >>clock for $9000 sounds like an excellent opportunity. Thanks for your post. I know what you mean but here in Puerto Rico, unfortunately, I haven't seen many good buys around. I've been searching for a newer car for the past several months (over a year now) and I haven't found one a car like this with such low mileage for $9K. I'm afraid that if I keep looking for a better deal, another year will pass by and I'll have the same old car I have now. > Leave it alone. There are many other good deals available. Too many > unknowns. [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > >>and meeting the self-inspection I recommended, a '98 ES300 with 43k on the > >>clock for $9000 sounds like an excellent opportunity. |
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