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Car Forum / Lexus Cars / April 2006Here we go again - Octane level
Just got a new job. Fifty mile one-way commute in Los Angeles. Premium gas is now at 3.13 per gal. What I want to know is anyone out there been using lower grade gas in their vehicle for any extended period of time, and what effect has it had on your car. I have a 2002 GS300 that was a lease return. I purchased the car in 2005. It runs like a champ. My thinking is that if I had a leased vehicle I would you the cheapest gas as I would know this car would be turned in. The car has 78k, and I have been alternating between 91 and 89 octane. What say you? >Just got a new job. Fifty mile one-way commute in Los Angeles. Premium gas >is now at 3.13 per gal. What I want to know is anyone out there been using [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >What say you? It's always best to use the recommended octane level for the car. You can usually get away with one or two octane lower with no problems. Your knock sensor will compensate. >>Just got a new job. Fifty mile one-way commute in Los Angeles. Premium gas >>is now at 3.13 per gal. What I want to know is anyone out there been using [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > can usually get away with one or two octane lower with no problems. > Your knock sensor will compensate. Of course it best to use recommended brand of gas. What I am looking for is someone who has had their vehicle for an extended period of time, and has real world experience. I guess it really doesnt matter at the rate I am racking up the miles, about 30k per year, I will buy probably buy a '06 or '07 GS300 in a couple of years. >>>Just got a new job. Fifty mile one-way commute in Los Angeles. Premium gas >>>is now at 3.13 per gal. What I want to know is anyone out there been using [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >racking up the miles, about 30k per year, I will buy probably buy a '06 or >'07 GS300 in a couple of years. I use regular in my rx 330 with no ill effects, I always used reg in my cars even when premium is recommended and never had anything bad happen. you might see a slight lessening of gas milage, 1-2 mpg lower and a very slight hit when accelerating, but unless you need to be first off the line everytime it shouldn't make a difference YMMV > I use regular in my rx 330 with no ill effects, I always used reg in > my cars even when premium is recommended and never had > anything bad happen. I used regular in my 1997 ES for 70K miles and it was fine. Based on discussions here, I switch to using premium on my 2004 ES and it improves performance, particularly in light of the hesitating tranny, which doesn't bother me as much using premium. > you might see a slight lessening of gas milage, 1-2 mpg lower If it's a 2 mpg difference, then premium would actually work out to be cheaper than regular. (And according to some folks here, better for your car). If premium results in a 1 mpg improvement, then premium turns out to cost about 3% more, which is about $40 or $50 more per 10,000 miles. Seems more than worth it to me for better performance and, according to some, better for your car. > YMMV I agree. It all depends on how much mpg improvement you REALLY get from premium. > I use regular in my rx 330 with no ill effects, I always used reg in > my cars even when premium is recommended and never had anything bad > happen. you might see a slight lessening of gas milage, 1-2 mpg lower > and a very slight hit when accelerating, but unless you need to be > first off the line everytime it shouldn't make a difference YMMV Not sure what your dealer told you or what your manual says, but regular is what is recommended for the RX330. That's all I've every used in mine. ;-) >Of course it best to use recommended brand of gas. What I am looking for is >someone who has had their vehicle for an extended period of time, and has >real world experience. I guess it really doesnt matter at the rate I am >racking up the miles, about 30k per year, I will buy probably buy a '06 or >'07 GS300 in a couple of years. Our 00 ES300 routinely runs on 87, although when we fill up at Costco, the price of premium is the same price as regular elsewhere so we fill up with premium there. We now have 65k on the odo. On my 02 LS430, I pretty much stick with premium although I've used regular a few times when premium was out at the local station. It has 45k on the odo. As Elmo has already stated, the only real difference has been a slight loss of power and a 1-2mpg drop. It's almost always safer to drop in octane level from the recommended octane but it's not a good idea to use premium fuel in an engine that doesn't require it. It can cause an excessive buildup of carbon on the piston heads and valves. Is that real world enough? > It's always best to use the recommended octane level for the car. Why? > You > can usually get away with one or two octane lower with no problems. OK, which REALLY leads to the question: why is it "always best to use the recommended octane level for the car"? And what if the recommendation from the owner's manual is like what you said: "use 93 octane, but nothing bad will happen if you don't"? >> It's always best to use the recommended octane level for the car. > >Why? because performance and mpg usually suffer. >> You >> can usually get away with one or two octane lower with no problems. > >OK, which REALLY leads to the question: why is it "always best to use >the recommended octane level for the car"? >And what if the recommendation from the owner's manual is like what you >said: "use 93 octane, but nothing bad will happen if you don't"? then use 93 octane or lower. The lower the octane level, the more pure the fuel and the faster the detonation. The timing will automatically be retarded to compensate for knock but in retarding the time, performance and mpg will suffer. > >> It's always best to use the recommended octane level for the car. > > > >Why? > > > because performance and mpg usually suffer. MPG is up in the air; performance, so what? For everyday city driving, for the average Lexus driver, will any of them notice any difference? >> >> It's always best to use the recommended octane level for the car. >> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >MPG is up in the air; performance, so what? For everyday city driving, >for the average Lexus driver, will any of them notice any difference? nope probably not and the difference would probably only be noticeable on a dyno. > Just got a new job. Fifty mile one-way commute in Los Angeles. Premium gas > is now at 3.13 per gal. What I want to know is anyone out there been using > lower grade gas in their vehicle for any extended period of time, and what > effect has it had on your car. I've been using 87 octane in my 94 ES for as long as I've had it, about 28 months now. I got it with 124K on the clock it's now at 162K. I have gotten a steady ~20 in town and ~25 on the highway (as high as 27 occasionally). No ill effects. And after all, the owner's manual *does* say that you can use lower octane fuel without harming the engine. So what does your owner's manual say? What's the engine's compression ratio? If > 10.0 : 1 the need for higher octane fuel grows. High octane gas ignites at a higher temperature than lower octane gas. That's the difference; and its used in higher compression motors. So? If the fuel ignites too soon - before the piston reaches the top of its travel - the motor is working against itself and one hears the "pinging" of preignition - ignition from sources like carbon etc., other than the spark plug which fires at the correct time. Modern engines have knock sensors to detect preignition and when they do the ignition is retarded a bit to depower the motor and so reduce the preignition. 89 fuel may seem OK but it has some performance penalty, particularly in hot weather when preignition is more prevalent with all fuels - because everything is hotter! The more moderately you drive the car the easier it will be to "get away with" using lower octane fuels, but give it a break and use high octane in the hot months. I have a 2001 GS300 that I've run 87 for a year and got 16mpg. I tried premium for 6 tanks hoping for better mileage or performance. I got neither so I'm back to regular. > Just got a new job. Fifty mile one-way commute in Los Angeles. Premium gas > is now at 3.13 per gal. What I want to know is anyone out there been using [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > What say you? >I have a 2001 GS300 that I've run 87 for a year and got 16mpg. I tried > premium for 6 tanks hoping for better mileage or performance. I got [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >With premium at 3.25 a gallon in L.A. I figured I'd split the difference >and use 89 untill the annual summer spike is over. >>I have a 2001 GS300 that I've run 87 for a year and got 16mpg. I tried >> premium for 6 tanks hoping for better mileage or performance. I got [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>With premium at 3.25 a gallon in L.A. I figured I'd split the difference >>and use 89 untill the annual summer spike is over. Something's wrong here, 16 MPG on a GS300, your foot must be all the way into it. We have a 98 GS 300 and have a few friends who have either GS 300 or 400 and none of them gets less than 20 MPG unless they are really pushing it. Our normal MPG is 21-24, town, 24-28 Highway trip 75-80 MPH. Many of us have tried regular & premium and have found that premium pays for it's self on the highway with it about a wash in town. ***************** Thank You kgsAT@msbx.net To reply to this email please remove the AT after the kgs in the reply to address as shown above. >Something's wrong here, 16 MPG on a GS300, your foot must be all the way into it. > We have a 98 GS 300 and have a few friends who have either GS 300 or 400 and none of them gets [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >***************** >Thank You kgsAT@msbx.net Just about what I have found with my 2006 GS300, 1997 Avalon, and 1998 Audi A6 -- the increase in mileage more than offsets the difference in price. If the car call for premium, buy it and save -- especially on the highway! >>Something's wrong here, 16 MPG on a GS300, your foot must be all the way >>into it. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > price. If the car call for premium, buy it and save -- especially on > the highway! Try driving 50 miles one way in LA traffic 2 hour commute each way, then let me know what your milage is. I recently went to vegas and got about 23-24 miles per gallon average speed about 85-90mph. >> Just about what I have found with my 2006 GS300, 1997 Avalon, and 1998 >> Audi A6 -- the increase in mileage more than offsets the difference in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >me know what your milage is. I recently went to vegas and got about 23-24 >miles per gallon average speed about 85-90mph. And your point is... ? That sitting and idling for two hours burns a lot of gas, hence screws your mileage.  Signaturevito - >>> Just about what I have found with my 2006 GS300, 1997 Avalon, and 1998 >>> Audi A6 -- the increase in mileage more than offsets the difference in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And your point is... ? > That sitting and idling for two hours burns a lot of gas, hence screws > your mileage. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >> And your point is... ? That was my point. > > That sitting and idling for two hours burns a lot of gas, hence screws > > your mileage. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > That was my point. Somewhat unrelated to the topic of this thread which is "Octane Level." With gasoline at $3+ a gallon why would the incremental cost delta of a few cents between regular and premium be of such concern to someone who can afford a Lexus? There are a great many less expensive autos out there that don't require premuim. Many of these are also made by Toyota. > There are a great many less expensive autos out there > that don't require premuim. But Lexus autos don't require premium, so that's a moot point. > > There are a great many less expensive autos out there > > that don't require premuim. > > But Lexus autos don't require premium, so that's a moot point. No, the point that has been repeatedly made in this thread is that you generally SAVE money by using premium in most Lexi. Premium is not "required" but it is "recommended." And unlike many manufacturer/dealer recommendations, following this one will save most people money. Not a lot of money, it is true, but these days, every little bit counts. Even for a person wealthy enough to afford a Lexus! How do you think we got this way? :-) This should be the final word on this issue. When I got my RX330 I read the manual. It recommends premium, but says it will run on regular, warning about a commensurate drop in performance and fuel efficiency. Being somewhat of a pessimistic redneck, I done my own testing. I ran about six tanks of premium and then six tanks of premium, monitoring my MPG. Guess what; I did do better with premium, to the tune of about 1.25 mpg. Most of this driving was back and forth to work, combination city streets and highway driving, with no conscious effort to drive any different than I normally do. Price wise it was a wash. The increase in MPG roughly made up for the increased cost of the premium. (Don't really know about performance. As a retired cop, I quit chasing cars and driving crazy about ten years ago when I retired.) Here is the salient issue. Back when I done my testing gas was selling in Missouri for about $1.79 for regular, $1.99 for premium., 20 cents more. IF YOUR MANUAL RECOMMENDS PREMIUM, BUY IT! Now that gas is selling for about $2.79 for regular and $2.99 for premium, the savings are even more. I dread the day when the oil companies and/or retailers figure out they could probably get by with percentage increases in the cost of premium. I don't know why they have not. (Maybe they are in some parts of the country.) We are probably never going to see gas under $2.00 a gallon again, and if you noticed, the recent surge over $3.00 a gallon on the coasts is not as big a deal this time as it was last year. I think it's a psychological conditioning process. We will all wind up paying well over $3.00 a gallon this summer, then it will drop back in the Fall, and we will be relieved to only be paying $2.99. A couple of cycles like that and we will be paying close to European prices for gas. SignatureMICHAEL J. MacMAHON Captain (ret.) KCPD Remember, Golf is not a matter of Life or Death; it is MUCH more important than that. NOTE: All outgoing mail is scanned by McAfee Virus Scan for your safety. > >> > There are a great many less expensive autos out there [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > got > this way? :-) > This should be the final word on this issue. When I got my RX330 I read > the manual. It recommends premium, but says it will run on regular, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > to only be paying $2.99. A couple of cycles like that and we will be > paying close to European prices for gas. It always amazes me how many people think they know more about automotive technology than the folks who design and make cars. Many people have gotten results very similar to Capt (ret) MacMahon's when comparing premium to regular fuel, yet there are those who perpetuate the urban myth. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > > > There are a great many less expensive autos > > > out there that don't require premuim. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > No, the point that has been repeatedly made in this thread is that you > generally SAVE money by using premium in most Lexi. What's ironic here (and counterintuitive, too) is that premium becomes more economical as the price of gas goes up. Even though the price of gas went up from $2 to $3 a gallon, the difference between gas grades (from 87 to 89 and from 89 to 93) remains about $0.10 each. Therefore, the percentage cost difference between gas grades decreases as the price of gas goes up. OTOH, the mileage improvement of going from regular to premium, as a percentage, remains the same. |
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