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Car Forum / Lexus Cars / May 2007Cost of 10K oil change? $175 everywhere?
Ahhhhh ! You just have to love the Japanese Luxury car! Have to change oil every 5000 miles and NOT use good artificial oil, use the inferior dino oil. Go there to the dealership and sit there because they do not provide loaner cars nor transport to somewhere. And then pay $175 for the oil, an inferior car wash, tire rotation, inspection of a lot of little things, and filling the fluids and tires. I did have them check the grabby brakes which also grind when cold and starting out, and they were fine and functioning normaly. The squeaky noise in the trunk opening thing that started about 5200 miles is a faulty trunk opening motor. Wow! Such a delight! I am thinking maybe American cars are better than this and cost half as much, or maybe go back to the Mercedes that costs half again as much but breaks down every 3 years and strands the proud owners by the side of the road. And the Koyoto accords?? Dealer says DO NOT use ethanol gas in the 06 LS430. > Ahhhhh ! You just have to love the Japanese Luxury car! Have to change > oil every 5000 miles and NOT use good artificial oil, use the inferior > dino oil. Says who? > Go there to the dealership and sit there because they do not > provide loaner cars nor transport to somewhere. And then pay $175 > for the oil, an inferior car wash, tire rotation, inspection of a lot > of little things, and filling the fluids and tires. Why would you do that? Why would you go to the dealership for that? > Ahhhhh ! You just have to love the Japanese Luxury car! Have to change > oil every 5000 miles and NOT use good artificial oil, use the inferior > dino oil. You might be surprised to find where synthetic oil comes from.  SignatureSt. John Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt sit there because they do not > provide loaner cars nor transport to somewhere. My dealership does. Also free valet service. The guy leaves you with the loaner. No charge. Saves me a 50 minute drive. My dealer charges about $75 to change the oil on my 2004 LS430. But I rarely use the dealer. Lots of local shops that do the job for half that just fine. Avoid the dealer hype. Do the basic maintenance at a reasonable local shop and keep on truckin'.... > sit there because they do not >> provide loaner cars nor transport to somewhere. > > My dealership does. Also free valet service. The guy leaves you with the > loaner. No charge. Saves me a 50 minute drive. >Ahhhhh ! You just have to love the Japanese Luxury car! Have to change >oil every 5000 miles and NOT use good artificial oil, use the inferior [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >and strands the proud owners by the side of the road. And the Koyoto >accords?? Dealer says DO NOT use ethanol gas in the 06 LS430. why would anyone be so retarded as to go to the dealership for a simple oil change? $175 will will do at least 3 changes at a Grease Monkey with Mobil 1. > $175 will will do at least 3 changes at a Grease > Monkey with Mobil 1. $175 would get you 3 oil changes with Mobil 1 at the neighborhood service station, where they have a reputation and give a damn. You'd also earn quite a bit of goodwill with that business. WHEN are you going to sell your car and buy ANYTHING else so that you leave this newsgroup and stop ANNOYING those of us who are interested in meaningful information exchange on the subject of Lexus automobiles? I simply don't understand why you think that your posting achieves anything useful other than satisfying your insipid desire for attention? Jeez. > Ahhhhh ! You just have to love the Japanese Luxury car! Have to change > oil every 5000 miles and NOT use good artificial oil, use the inferior [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > and strands the proud owners by the side of the road. And the Koyoto > accords?? Dealer says DO NOT use ethanol gas in the 06 LS430. My oil changes at an Atlanta Lexus dealership were only like $25 or $30. Tire rotation/balancing and wheel alignment were crazy-priced at like $80 each, which is what probably inflated your bill. You have to remember that Lexus is a luxury brand, and this level of service is the default offering for their actual customer base, made up largely of financially secure individuals. The service schedule is a little overkill, but I would have no problem keeping up with it if I was the target wealthy customer. Being more frugle, I choose to do my service either myself or at the local Toyota dealership. You have to use common sense to do what makes sense for you. But it doesn't seem sensical to gripe about the higher level of service provided by the Lexus dealer network. And as far as Kyoto accords, once you can convince "W" to sign on to Kyoto, then perhaps those standards will be applied to automobiles sold in the US. Why would Lexus/Toyota spend the money to apply arbitrary fuel/emmissions standards to their fleet when their biggest consumer market (America) doesn't ask for it, let alone have any positive environmental positions? > Ahhhhh ! You just have to love the Japanese Luxury car! Have to change > oil every 5000 miles and NOT use good artificial oil, use the inferior [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > and strands the proud owners by the side of the road. And the Koyoto > accords?? Dealer says DO NOT use ethanol gas in the 06 LS430. > Being more frugle, I choose to do my service either myself or at the local Toyota dealership. My Toyota dealer did not know the following about my 2000 ES300 during the 60K service- Uses Iridium plugs (they thought it uses platinum plugs) Has a cabin air filter (they couldn't find one behind the glove compartment, so they thought it wasn't equipped with one) The Toyota dealer baited me with a $500 estimate, and added another $400+ (after work commenced) in additional "recommended" services +costs for the 60K service. The Lexus dealership was upfront about the price of the 60K service (a little under $1000). And the Lexus dealership 60K service also includes belts replacement, new wiper blades and cabin air filter replacement in the 60K service, which the Toyota dealership 60K service did not include. YMMV. >> Being more frugle, I choose to do my service either myself or at the local Toyota dealership. > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >YMMV. yeesh. The cabin filter can be bought off ebay for $10. Wiper blades are another $20 at your local auto store. Oil change at a local service station $45 Service still will change the belts for $100 (including the belt). Total cost outside the dealer - <$200 Man. I oughta open up a Lexus maintenace dealership, charge half the price and make a fortune. > yeesh. The cabin filter can be bought off ebay for $10. > Wiper blades are another $20 at your local auto store. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Man. I oughta open up a Lexus maintenace dealership, charge half the > price and make a fortune. I could have saved some $$$ by going to someone who _might_ have messed up my car. I mean, even a Toyota-trained mechanic couldn't find the cabin air filter in the ES300! Here's a partial breakdown: Radiator flush (not drain and fill), with Toyota's pink, long-life coolant (not the common green coolant): $100 Transmission flush (not drain and fill) with Toyota Type-T transmission fluid: $130 Power Steering Flush: $100 Fuel-induction service (includes throttle-body cleaning): $100 Engine oil change: $25 Engine air filter replacement: $??? Brake System Flush (and clean brake components, etc): $120 Rear differential oil change: $??? Vehicle inspection, rotate tires, test-drive, etc.: $??? What I did not get: Serpentine Belt replacement: $??? Cabin air filter replacement: $??? Wiper blade replacement: $??? Nice Lexus: priceless (OK, not more than the Blue Book value) >> yeesh. The cabin filter can be bought off ebay for $10. >> Wiper blades are another $20 at your local auto store. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I mean, even a Toyota-trained mechanic couldn't find the cabin air >filter in the ES300! that begs the question, why would anyone bring their lexus to a toyota shop, except in an emergency situation? > that begs the question, why would anyone bring their lexus to a toyota > shop, except in an emergency situation? The ES300 is basically a luxurious Camry. One would imagine a Toyota-trained mechanic would know more about this car. I usually take my Lexus to the Toyota dealer for an oil change: $25 (and much faster) vs $55. In retrospect, considering what I paid to the Toyota dealer for this major service, I should have gone to Lexus instead. >> that begs the question, why would anyone bring their lexus to a toyota >> shop, except in an emergency situation? > >The ES300 is basically a luxurious Camry. basically is one thing, it is not an exact copy, therefore you could not expect a toyota dealership to grasp the ins and outs of a lexus. My lexus has parts marked toyota, but that does not make it one The ES300 is basically the same car as the Camry, and it shares most of the same parts. That's by design for obvious reasons, it simplifies fleet design for Toyota across the brands. There are many different Toyota and Lexus dealerships out there, and the quality among the Toyota dealerships will likely vary more than Lexus. But again, Lexus is a luxury brand. If you want the entire luxury experience, then by all means, do all the service at Lexus and enjoy the experience. But I disagree with any notion that doing the service at a Toyota dealership will necessarily result in any sort of inferior quality work. In my case, I have had the same service writer for 13 years at the Toyota dealership, and I trust his guidance. On one income while my wife stays at home with the little one, I'm not going for the luxury experience with my ES300 by paying large service bills at Lexus. Further, my '02 ES300 has not exactly been the luxury product, with transmission problems, shifter relay problem, A/C relay problem, rattling noises throughout the cabin, and 2 in-dash 6-CD changers broken. Just as my experience with a bug-ridden car isn't necessarily indicative of others' experience, others' negative experience doing service at the Toyota dealership doesn't match my experience. I realize any car can be a lemon, I believe a case can be made to include mine in the citrus family. However, I would probably buy another Lexus, likely an IS series with manual transmission, which I think would be the perfect blend of features and control for me. >>> that begs the question, why would anyone bring their lexus to a toyota >>> shop, except in an emergency situation? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > not expect a toyota dealership to grasp the ins and outs of a lexus. > My lexus has parts marked toyota, but that does not make it one >The ES300 is basically the same car as the Camry, and it shares most of the >same parts. there's the operative part, what do you do when something that isn't part of the "most" goes wrong and you're at the toyota shop. Maybe you didn't think of the total costs of a higher end car like a lexus, higher service costs are part of the deal That's a pretty elitist slant, don't you think? After all, it's just a car. And when you say "higher end", it's higher end marketing and merchandising, not necessarily higher end quality anymore. Are you saying I shouldn't own a Lexus because I don't do all my service at a Lexus dealership? That's ludicrous. Most of the difference is just cosmetic. The Toyota counterpart has plastic "wood" and less amenities. Bear in mind that I only paid like $32k for my ES300. I can go out and buy a loaded Camry for the same money, so I'm not sure how the "higher end" principle applies, especially considering Lexus is still just a Toyota underneath the hood. Many of the expensive parts are shared engine and electrical system parts and are the same exact parts. To your question, what do I do when something Lexus-specific goes wrong? Well, I don't sit there and drool and lament my circumstance, I make the best choice for the situation. For instance, Lexus wants $700 to replace my broken CD changer with a refurb. They say it's $540 for the part and the rest is their service fee to "check that the unit is actually broken and remove it". I asked if I could remove it myself, which I have done several times to install custom accessories inside the dash. That's when they said "no, you have to pay for the service, that's just the way the program is set up." So I found a place that does the work refurbing these Pioneer units for Lexus dealerships, and they want $270 to do the repair. I'm not sure my hands-on approach with maintaining my car is such a bad approach. All of my disappointment has been with the quality control of the failed components and with the buggy transmission performance. All that leads me to believe that the concept of "higher end" should not be applied to my 2002 ES300. Again, it's just a car, nothing special. >>The ES300 is basically the same car as the Camry, and it shares most of >>the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Maybe you didn't think of the total costs of a higher end car like a > lexus, higher service costs are part of the deal >That's a pretty elitist slant, don't you think? After all, it's just a car. >And when you say "higher end", it's higher end marketing and merchandising, >not necessarily higher end quality anymore. Are you saying I shouldn't own >a Lexus because I don't do all my service at a Lexus dealership? I take our 04 RX330 to a independent shop that specializes in Toyota/Lexus. Two of the techs came from a major Toyota dealership and two came from a Lexus chain. To compare prices, the 60K maintenance interval at Lexus was $900+, Toyota was $650, and at the independent, it was $425. Regardless of if we are driving "a high end" vehicle, that is no reason to pay extra for routine maintenance items. >>That's a pretty elitist slant, don't you think? After all, it's just a car. >>And when you say "higher end", it's higher end marketing and merchandising, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >if we are driving "a high end" vehicle, that is no reason to pay extra >for routine maintenance items. the independent that I takes my cars to have better paid and equally as trained and qualified techs as any in any dealership. AND, they're cheaper. Substantially cheaper than the dealer. Also, a dealer tech doesn't necessarily always know what they're doing. They're more used to working on cars under warranty, where they just swap out numerous parts until they fix the problem. Indy's are usually paid by the car owner so it's much more important for their continued succsss to get the job done right at the cheapest price. I know several dealership techs that got their training at the dealership then left to work for an indy for more pay. On Mar 3, 11:54 am, "cnewton--removet...@akamail.net" <Curtis Newton> wrote: > I take our 04 RX330 to a independent shop that specializes in > Toyota/Lexus. Two of the techs came from a major Toyota dealership > and two came from a Lexus chain. > > To compare prices, the 60K maintenance interval at Lexus was $900+, > Toyota was $650, and at the independent, it was $425. But do they do precisely the same things for their 60K service? e.g. Lexus inlcudes a transmission flush. Toyota inlcudes a drain and fill only; they recommend a flush, and you have to pay more for it if you want it done. An independent might say the green coolant will do just as well as Toyota's pink coolant, because they don't stock the pink stuff. >On Mar 3, 11:54 am, "cnewton--removet...@akamail.net" <Curtis Newton> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >An independent might say the green coolant will do just as well as >Toyota's pink coolant, because they don't stock the pink stuff. In my opinion, a good independent will only use OEM Toyota parts. So, the place I take our RX to does include the transmission flush using Type-IV fluid, as well as red Toyota coolant, Denso air/cabin filter, Toyota oil filter, etc. The one thing I didn't get was a car wash that Lexus offers. But, saving a bit over $450 was worth it. > > To compare prices, the 60K maintenance interval at Lexus was $900+, > > Toyota was $650, and at the independent, it was $425. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Toyota inlcudes a drain and fill only; they recommend a flush, and you > have to pay more for it if you want it done. This is not a "Lexus" vs. "Toyota" thing; each dealer is an INDEPENDENT BUSINESSMAN. There is no such thing as "Lexus" or "Toyota" service. Please notice that each dealership, regardless of its affiliation, sets up its own "service schedules"--which are usually unrelated to what's in the owner's manual, and which are usually directly related to how much money they think they can get you to pay when you come in the door. The owner's manual is the place to go to figure out what your car needs--not the dealership. If a Toyota owner's manual specifies a transmission flush, then the owner should be able to go to the dealership service department and ask for that service. The Toyota service manual will specify the procedure. Are you saying that a Toyota dealership near you refuses to do the service that (a) you ask for, and for which (b) they have the instructions and tools? Now that I look back at it, I see what you're saying: > e.g. Lexus inlcudes a transmission flush. > Toyota inlcudes a drain and fill only; they recommend a flush, and you > have to pay more for it if you want it done. Please let me more correctly restate what you said: "The local Lexus dealer goes ahead and does a transmission flush without asking you, and goes ahead and charges for it. The local Toyota dealer does a fluid change only, but the service writer will 'recommend' a flush and ask if you want it." Frankly, the Lexus dealer is ripping off its customers. WHAT DOES THE OWNER'S MANUAL SAY? And then what does the service manual say? I can guarantee that under no circumstances does Toyota recommend or specify a "transmission flush". They recommend a drain and fill--possibly multiple times, if you want to exchange a lot of the fluid. But a flush? No. They don't recommend it for their Toyota models, and they don't recommend it for their Lexus models. You were suckered in by the Lexus dealer doing unnecessary (and possibly damaging) work, and assumed that such work is "required" simply because "well, the Lexus dealer said it was". I have a 94 Lexus. I got it 3+ years ago with 125K on the clock. The previous owner had done a transmission "flush" a few months before I got it, and I ended up getting it with--ready for this?--a ruined transmission. I rebuilt the transmission, and here it is at 176K miles and going strong. You do the math. Honda recommends against a flush, and specifies multiple drain/fill iterations to replace much of the fluid if that's your goal. Find out what Toyota recommends on its cars, and you'll find the same. Your Lexus dealer is ripping you off, and you believed him. >I can guarantee that under no circumstances does Toyota recommend or >specify a "transmission flush". They recommend a drain and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >They don't recommend it for their Toyota models, and they don't >recommend it for their Lexus models. I completely understand/agree with the statement not to flush a transmission if it hasn't been done in a long time; we just did a drain/fill on our 88 Camry and at 320,000 miles, the transmission is still strong. Same thing with our ES300. However, on the RX family, the transmission fluid sure seems to get stressed, so I did the fluid flush. > However, on the RX family, the transmission fluid sure seems to get > stressed, so I did the fluid flush. How do you know it gets "stressed"? What does the owner's manual say? What does the service manual specify as a procedure for replacing the fluid? Does it specify a "flush" under any circumstances? >> However, on the RX family, the transmission fluid sure seems to get >> stressed, so I did the fluid flush. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >as a procedure for replacing the fluid? Does it specify a "flush" under >any circumstances? Used oil analysis and also the RX forum. Head over to the Lexus RX forum for some light reading on problems with certain model year RX300 transmissions. Regular changes seem to prevent or at least delay the problem. As for your other question, of course the owner's manual doesn't say anything about a flush or for that matter a change. In fact, the owner's manual for our 2004 RX330 says "lifetime fluid". But, in this case, Lexus and I have a different version of "lifetime". They view lifetime as long as the transmission lasts; I view lifetime in a much longer sense. As usual, YMMV. > >What does the owner's manual say? What does the service manual specify > >as a procedure for replacing the fluid? Does it specify a "flush" under [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > As for your other question, of course the owner's manual doesn't say > anything about a flush or for that matter a change. So what does the service manual say when a complete fluid change is required? How do the Toyota engineers want you to do it? Do they specify a flush of any kind? What's their procedure? I'm sure this is all documented somewhere in the RX forum, right? The same folks who are "sure" that the trans fluid gets "stressed", more so than the trans fluid in the Camry/ES on which the RX station wagon is built. > In fact, the owner's manual for our 2004 RX330 says "lifetime fluid". > But, in this case, Lexus and I have a different version of "lifetime". > They view lifetime as long as the transmission lasts; I view lifetime > in a much longer sense. But certainly the Toyota service manual addresses this, too, right? Or don't you have a service manual in hand? > This is not a "Lexus" vs. "Toyota" thing; each dealer is an INDEPENDENT > BUSINESSMAN. There is no such thing as "Lexus" or "Toyota" service. Of course there is, as others here have noted. You pay a premium/more at Lexus, and you get a free car wash :), and I personally got a brand new (less than 300 miles) RX series SUV as a free loaner car when I left my ES 300 there for an oil change sometime ago. And some other subtleties as anyone who has taken their Lexus to a Lexus dealership will know. Not worth the $30 more for a regular oil change than at Toyota, IMHO (maybe they thought I'd sell my ES and buy a new RX?), but why don't you try getting a brand new loaner Toyota Highlander from ANY Toyota dealer when you drop off a 5 year old Camry for an oil change? > The owner's manual is the place to go to figure out what your car > needs--not the dealership. You asked for it. Sorry if this sounds like an ad for the Lexus dealership. On page 219 of the 2000 Lexus Owner's Manual (ES 300), it states: "Lexus technicians are well-trained specialists and are kept up to date with the latest service information through technical bulletins, service tips, and in-dealership training programs. They are well informed about the operation of all the systems on your vehicle. You can be confident that your Lexus dealer's service department performs the best job to meet the maintenance requirements of your vehicle." So what does it say in your 94 Lexus owner's manual? :) And how do independent mechanics keep up with all these changes? > I can guarantee that under no circumstances does Toyota recommend or > specify a "transmission flush". They recommend a drain and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > damaging) work, and assumed that such work is "required" simply because > "well, the Lexus dealer said it was". I was baited and switched by the Toyota dealership. If "Toyota" doesn't recommend a flush, why did a service writer (presumably trained by Toyota) wearing a Toyota outfit at a Toyota dealership recommend the flush (after service began), especially if, as you claim, would be damaging to my car? And from what I hear, a common transmission fluid change only changes a small percentage of the total transmission fluid. >> This is not a "Lexus" vs. "Toyota" thing; each dealer is an INDEPENDENT >> BUSINESSMAN. There is no such thing as "Lexus" or "Toyota" service. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >performs the best job to meet the maintenance requirements of your >vehicle." ..well of COURSE it's going to say that. It's good business to promote their dealerships. >So what does it say in your 94 Lexus owner's manual? :) >And how do independent mechanics keep up with all these changes? ..the same way that dealerships do..through Alldata and service bulletins. >> I can guarantee that under no circumstances does Toyota recommend or >> specify a "transmission flush". They recommend a drain and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >dealership recommend the flush (after service began), especially if, >as you claim, would be damaging to my car? ..because (a) it makes them a LOT more money and (b) you'll believe anything they tell you. >And from what I hear, a common transmission fluid change only changes >a small percentage of the total transmission fluid. ..that's not true either. About 80% of the fluid is replaced. Most of the time, replacing fluid is all you need to do. Depending on how long it's been since it's last flush, flushing can loosen parts and significantly shorten the life of your transmission. Dealerships make a LOT of money in their service department. They're hoping you don't argue with with they recommend. Actually, they're banking most of their business on you not argueing what they tell you. > > The owner's manual is the place to go to figure out what your car > > needs--not the dealership. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > So what does it say in your 94 Lexus owner's manual? :) > And how do independent mechanics keep up with all these changes? The owner's manual has a MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE in it. For maintenance, the owner's manual is the first--and usually last--place one looks. When one goes into a shop and they talk about how the 5000 mile maintenance includes this, that, and the other, and it totals up to $300, all one has to do is look in one's owner's manual and ask for specifically THOSE LISTED services to be done. The dealership would love for you to take their advice, as an independent businessman, and give them scads of your money. But that doesn't mean the independent businessman dealership speaks for Lexus on those matters. The dealership speaks for himself--period. So there is no "Lexus service" and there is no "Toyota service". Toyota does not provide service. Shoot, Toyota does not sell cars to individuals. The independent businessman dealership does those things. As for how does an indy mechanic keep up with all the changes--well, how does anyone in any technical field keep up with changes? I might subscribe to some Microsoft program that gives me training and materials, or I might subscribe to a third-party program that gives me the equivalent. It's no big deal. Indy service places get all kinds of information about Toyotas and Lexuses that are out on the market. > > You were suckered in by the Lexus dealer doing unnecessary (and possibly > > damaging) work, and assumed that such work is "required" simply because [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > dealership recommend the flush (after service began), especially if, > as you claim, would be damaging to my car? Jesus Christ, man. Grow up. Why did he recommend it? Because it puts money into his pocket, that's why! Did you know that service writers are commissioned salespeople? Paid by the dollars they can talk you into pulling out of your wallet and giving to the service cashier? Are you sitting here and continuing to tell us that the dealership is ALWAYS looking out for its customers and is ALWAYS specifying exactly and only what the manufacturer puts down in its service manuals??? The dealership is an independent businessman, who wants to make money. If he can convince you that you need new blinker fluid, and get you to pay $25 for it, he will. I challenge you to show us your dealership service invoices over the last 5 years. We will show you just how much money you threw down the drain because you thought the dealership was looking out for you and was delivering only services that are in the Toyota service manuals. > And from what I hear, a common transmission fluid change only changes > a small percentage of the total transmission fluid. Did you even READ what I said? A simple trans fluid change does change only a small percentage of the fluid; that's why when a fuller exchange is required, the procedure is multiple iterations of the drain/fill procedure. Drain, fill, drive, drain, fill, drive, drain, fill, drive. You will never exchange all the fluid, but with several cycles you'll refresh it with plenty of fresh fluid. At no time does Toyota recommend a transmission "flush". Can you show us a Toyota service manual (not Haines or Chilton or Joe-Bob's) that specifies a flush, complete with flushing instructions? You need to grow up and get a sense of the world around you. It's not a pretty place, and you're on your own. The guy on the other side of the service desk is there to serve himself, not you. > The owner's manual has a MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE in it. For maintenance, > the owner's manual is the first--and usually last--place one looks. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > are commissioned salespeople? Paid by the dollars they can talk you > into pulling out of your wallet and giving to the service cashier? The Owners Manual is not the Gospel According To Toyota. The Maintenance Schedule there is a general guideline for most vehicles. You would rather trust the pages of that book than a competent mechanic who may have evidence to suggest that coolant has leaked into your engine oil, and some other routine may be required? Or that metallic chunks are floating around in your transmission fluid? Or that the transmission fluid appears badly burnt? The 3 times drain-fill-drive cycle could end up costing more and still leave more contaminants in the transmission than a flush. And the owner's manual says nothing abouth the sludge/oil-gelling problems occuring in many 1997 - 2001 Toyota vehicles too. Somewhere out there there are people who second-guess medical doctors the same way, and rely on healthcare phamplets only :) But the mdical community is smart enough to include a disclaimer in their phamplets, referring a patient to their doctor as the final authority for analysis/treatment; somthing the automobile community here passes off as Lexus Marketing Hype in the Lexus owners manual. > > Jesus Christ, man. Grow up. Why did he recommend it? Because it puts > > money into his pocket, that's why! Did you know that service writers [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > evidence to suggest that coolant has leaked into your engine oil, and > some other routine may be required? He wasn't talking about a competent mechanic. He was talking about the service writer at the Lexus dealership, who sold him--without his asking--a service that Toyota doesn't recommend. I will always take the word of a competent mechanic. That's one reason I buy Hondas; I know two extremely competent Honda mechanics, and I don't have to worry. > Or that metallic chunks are floating around in your transmission > fluid? > Or that the transmission fluid appears badly burnt? Ever been to a Jiffy Lube? They'll tell you ALL KINDS of things. The same dealership that employs my long-time (20 years) competent mechanics, also employs a shyster mechanic. Why they let him get away with his stuff, I don't know. But he rips people off BIG time. He'll flat-out lie to them. > The 3 times drain-fill-drive cycle could end up costing more and still > leave more contaminants in the transmission than a flush. And the flush will damage your transmission. Gee, you know more than the Honda engineers who designed the transmission, right? >> The 3 times drain-fill-drive cycle could end up costing more and still >> leave more contaminants in the transmission than a flush. > >And the flush will damage your transmission. That is the kind of servicethat will continue to generate $$$ for the dealership for sure. Essentially, offering a service that "will damage your transmission" and then charge the customer to put in a rebuilt unit when they come back. In my opinion, when you tout as fact the marketing phrases from the Lexus owners manual, you're just asking to get fragged here... >> This is not a "Lexus" vs. "Toyota" thing; each dealer is an INDEPENDENT >> BUSINESSMAN. There is no such thing as "Lexus" or "Toyota" service. [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > And from what I hear, a common transmission fluid change only changes > a small percentage of the total transmission fluid. > In my opinion, when you tout as fact the marketing phrases from the Lexus > owners manual, you're just asking to get fragged here... I'm not touting anything for Lexus, or I would have gone to them to service (60K) my vehicle. Elmo asked for info from my Lexus owner's manual, and I provided a quote. But frag away! :) No fragging from me, only discussion. I've been very disappointed in the gap between the Lexus marketing and the real customer experience. I know that others have had great experiences though. >> In my opinion, when you tout as fact the marketing phrases from the Lexus >> owners manual, you're just asking to get fragged here... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > But frag away! :) I'm a relatively new Lexus owner (CPO 2005 ES 330). Great car, crappy tranny. YES the service area is VERY nice. YES the service advisors are very nice. BUT my dealer gets $140 for an oil change, tire rotation, and cheap car wash. Oil change= $35.00 Tire rotation= $39.00 Car Wash= $10.00 PRETTY DEALERSHIP, COFFEE AND DONUTS= $56.00 !!!! For WHAT?? I get a nice service area, AND the coffee and donuts at my old Toyota dealer, with the oil change and tire rotation for LESS THAN $50. And the bigger services??? $1000 for a timing belt?!?!?!?! C'mon....... > No fragging from me, only discussion. I've been very disappointed in the > gap between the Lexus marketing and the real customer experience. I know [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >> But frag away! :) |
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