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Car Forum / Lexus Cars / March 20072002 IS300 drivetrain popping
Hi, I'm on the verge of buying a 2002 IS300 and took it for a test drive a couple of days ago. I noticed a muffled thunk or click when I started from a dead stop ( at a traffic light or stop sign or whenever I started the car from ) after putting the car into 1st gear. I'm not sure if I heard it between the higher gears. The previous owner never noticed it. I took the car in for a pre- purchase inspection at the same auto shop that has been looking after the car for the past 2/3 years. When I pointed it out to the mechanic on a test drive he noticed it and first explained it as having to do with the fact that it is a rear-wheel drive and the long travel of the drive shaft causes this etc. When I persisted with my questions about whether this was normal, he kept saying that it didn't bother him and that it is expected. He didn't seem to have ever noticed this problem on any car before. I was surprised as he has worked on Lexus and Toyotas for 18 years and when I mentioned this, he said that it didn't register in his mind as a problem and so he never really noticed it. When he put the car up on the left and gently rocked the rear wheels back and forth we could see the long metal axle (?) or rod that connects to the parts before they go on to the rear wheel had some play and made a slight clicking noise. I asked him if he could expect this in a brand new IS300 and he didn't seem sure. I am more than a little concerned as this the first car that I am going to spend over $15000. (the asking price is $16300); concerned enough to consider getting a second opinion if the current owner will allow it. Have any of you noticed or are aware of this problem or even if it is a problem at all? It just seems to me that a car of the quality of a Lexus should have click and pops like this. I'd really appreciate any input. Thanks in advance! The car: 2002 IS300 5 speed manual transmission 70K miles Otherwise excellent overall condition Current owner seems to have maintained it very well goonie12 One thing it could be is either the anti-lock brakes or traction control. If it seems to be coming from the right frong wheel, it's normal. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > goonie12 -- > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I mentioned this, he said that it didn't register in his mind as a > problem and so he never really noticed it. One of the advantages of a dealership's service department is that they are current on factory training, something that is not offered to non-franchised service operations. > When he put the car up on the left and gently rocked the rear wheels > back and forth we could see the long metal axle (?) or rod that > connects to the parts before they go on to the rear wheel had some > play and made a slight clicking noise. I asked him if he could expect > this in a brand new IS300 and he didn't seem sure. It is difficult, if not impossible, to diagnose a noise without actually hearing it. The rear axle on a rear wheel drive is connected to the transmission by a driveshaft. At each end of the driveshaft are universal joints that allow veretical movement of the rear axle. A little free-play is normal, and there should be a factory specification in the factory service manual for how much is acceptable. If the universal joint is too tight, the vehicle can shudder at takeoff. At 70,000 miles, it is unlikely that the U-joint is bad, unless the car was really driven hard. > I am more than a little concerned as this the first car that I am > going to spend over $15000. (the asking price is $16300); concerned [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > goonie12 Another possible source of metallic popping or clicking noise is aftermarket brake pads. If the backing is smaller than the factory spec, they can shift up and down, and when the backing contacts the edge of the caliper, you get a noise.  SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > > The car: 2002 IS300 Thanks Mark and Ray for your comments! I am pretty sure it is not the brakes. As I mentioned when you rock the rear wheels gently back and forth you can see the play in the place where the long metal rod meets a junction near the rear wheels. ______________ |-----------------------| |-----------------------| | _____________| ____ =============================#===== |____| CLICK |-----------------------| |-----------------------| | _____________| Here is a little diagram of the shaft and rear wheels. The clicking and play is most certainly coming from the spot where I've written "CLICK" and marked at the joint with the "#" mark. I stood under the car and hear it. I'm almost positive it is not the brake calipers. Praveen PS: How do I set my account such that it doesn't display my email address? 8) > > 5 speed manual transmission > > 70K miles > > Otherwise excellent overall condition [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) ______________ |-----------------------| |-----------------------| |_____________| | | ____ ==============#===== |____| CLICK | | ______________ |-----------------------| |-----------------------| |_____________| > ______________ > |-----------------------| [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > |-----------------------| > |_____________| I put up the diagram again as the previous one got messed up. I also made a typo in my first post. I meant that when he put the car up on the lift to look under it, we saw the play and clicking in the driveshaft that comes from the front to the rear and connects to a joint near the rear wheels. As I mentioned, the sound and play is positively noticeable in the area in the diagram with the "#" sign and CLICK written. Thanks again for your comments! What do you think? Praveen >> ______________ >> |-----------------------| [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Praveen I think you are much better at ASCII art than I'll ever be! You asked in another post how you hide your e-mail address. I do not consider myself to be a computer expert by any stretch of the imagination but if you want to make it less obvious on the return address and you are using Outlook Express, go to the tools menu, then newsgroups, then click on the appropriate account, and fix your return address. Computer geeks will say that Outlook Express is bad and should not be used for reasons that are beyond my comprehension. I personally am willing to barter knowledge - I fix my computer geek friends' cars, and they make my computer work. Back to your car question - your artwork indicates that it is the rear universal joint that is making the noise. As I mentioned before, some noise is OK, too much or too little is bad. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > Back to your car question - your artwork indicates that it is the rear > universal joint that is making the noise. As I mentioned before, some noise > is OK, too much or too little is bad. Thanks Ray! Actually, when I reread your reply, you did answer to the point what the problem might be. It is most probably due to the play in the universal joint nearer the rear wheels. As you mentioned, too little or too much is a bad thing. I convinced the owner this morning to let me take the car to another auto shop for a second opinion. So, Friday morning is when I get the inspection again. I don't mind spending the $70-$80 again. I just wish they had allowed me to take the car there in the first place. I don't post using Outlook. I just post on the website directly and so I guess I can't hide my address. The email address is contaminated with junk mail already and so it's too late anyway :-) I use Outlook for my work email and I don't really like it but I'm not really a geek and I can't articulate why I dislike it beyond the fact that it is slow and the options for searching your email messages for stuff are primitive. Praveen > -- > > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) > > Back to your car question - your artwork indicates that it is the rear > > universal joint that is making the noise. As I mentioned before, some noise [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > -- Also, if the play is too much, what needs to be fixed/replaced? Is it an expensive job? Thanks! > > Ray O > > (correct punctuation to reply) >> > Back to your car question - your artwork indicates that it is the rear >> > universal joint that is making the noise. As I mentioned before, some [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Thanks! If the play is too much, the driveshaft needs replacement. I've never priced a driveshaft replacement, but I would imagine that it costs $500 or so at a Lexus dealer. Check the powertrain warranty on the car. If it has the same 72 month, 70,000 warranty as current models have, it may still be covered by the powertrain warranty. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > >> > Back to your car question - your artwork indicates that it is the rear > >> > universal joint that is making the noise. As I mentioned before, some [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > powertrain warranty. > -- Wow! And $500 is parts+labor? The car has just covered 70K miles. SO it looks like I've lucked out big time if it does require replacement. :-( > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) <snipped> >> >> > -- >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> Ray O >> (correct punctuation to reply) $500 is just a guess on my part. In all likelihood, the universal joint and driveshaft will be within factory specifications and the car will be fine. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > <snipped> > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Ray O > (correct punctuation to reply) Thanks Ray! Keeping my fingers crossed. Praveen >> <snipped> >> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > Praveen You're welcome and good luck! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > ______________ > |-----------------------| [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > |-----------------------| > |_____________| I put up the diagram again as the previous one got messed up. I also made a typo in my first post. I meant that when he put the car up on the lift to look under it, we saw the play and clicking in the driveshaft that comes from the front to the rear and connects to a joint near the rear wheels. As I mentioned, the sound and play is positively noticeable in the area in the diagram with the "#" sign and CLICK written. Thanks again for your comments! What do you think? Praveen > ______________ > |-----------------------| [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > |-----------------------| > |_____________| I put up the diagram again as the previous one got messed up. I also made a typo in my first post. I meant that when he put the car up on the lift to look under it, we saw the play and clicking in the driveshaft that comes from the front to the rear and connects to a joint near the rear wheels. As I mentioned, the sound and play is positively noticeable in the area in the diagram with the "#" sign and CLICK written. Thanks again for your comments! What do you think? Praveen > ______________ > |-----------------------| [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > |-----------------------| > |_____________| I put up the diagram again as the previous one got messed up. I also made a typo in my first post. I meant that when he put the car up on the lift to look under it, we saw the play and clicking in the driveshaft that comes from the front to the rear and connects to a joint near the rear wheels. As I mentioned, the sound and play is positively noticeable in the area in the diagram with the "#" sign and CLICK written. Thanks again for your comments! What do you think? Praveen |
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