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Car Forum / Lexus Cars / April 2007Lexus LS-400 / LS-430 Problems & Failures
I would like to buy a used Lexus LS-400 or a Lexus LS-430 in the next year or two perhaps (depending on my health.) I feel that they are a very well built car and I'm sure many of you feel the same way. I have been looking at many web sites and forums to find any and all known and reoccurring problems with the car. Any helpful input would be greatly appreciated. I have read that certain years had major problems with the air ride suspension and many people had it converted to a regular suspension. Problems were reported and fairly common with the instrument cluster circuit board failure in some years. I've read more than one post on different sites where the gauges work intermittently or not at all when it's cold and then start working again when it warms up inside the car. I've also read that the power steering pump can fail causing the alternator fail also. I have never heard of or read of any major engine or transmission failures but it doesn't mean that they don't exist. I know that no car is going to be perfect, and as a former Maintenance Mechanic, I understand the complexities of machinery. I know that any car will require regular service and maintenance. I also know that any car part can fail for a variety of reasons. I'm looking for patterns of failure on certain parts for different years. I'm trying not to be nit picking. I'm just trying to decide what year or years to stay away from that may have had some well-known and costly repair problems. And I know that the newer the car is, the less likely it will be to have major problems. I can't afford a new Lexus LS 460 unfortunately. Obviously the older the car is the cheaper it will be to buy it outright but it may be wiser to choose a different year of car that has less known problems. Is what I have read true? Do any of you agree that these are common problems or just a fluke? I've read many posts on these problems but that doesn't necessarily paint a true picture of known car problems when we are taking about hundreds of thousands of units of cars built. So what do you think? Is this true? Is it as commonplace as it appears? I like the 2000 Lexus LS 4000 and the 2001Lexus LS 430 I don't want to sound unappreciative, but I'm hoping we can stay on topic with this thread. I don't like it when it turns into a flame war. Thanks in advance for your input, suggestions and opinions. >I would like to buy a used Lexus LS-400 or a Lexus LS-430 in the next year >or two perhaps (depending on my health.) I feel that they are a very well [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > >Thanks in advance for your input, suggestions and opinions. Obviously, the newer the car, the less problems you'll find with them. Having said that, it might help to know what target price range are you looking at? $5,000? $30,000? That'll help us determine what years (or even models) to consider. Personally, I currently own a 94 GS300, a 2000 ES300 and a 2002 LS430. The 94 is a GREAT car, the 00 ES300 is a GREAT car and the LS is an AWESOME car but if I were to have the same money I spent on the LS all over again, I would have to VERY seriously consider the 2007 ES350. It handles better, gets better mpg, has about the same ride quality and it's slightly smaller so it's easier to park. And it's lighter so it has a lot more pep. >>I would like to buy a used Lexus LS-400 or a Lexus LS-430 in the next year >>or two perhaps (depending on my health.) I feel that they are a very well [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > And it's lighter so it has a lot more pep. Max, Yes I agree with you about the age of the vehicle and I even wrote so in my original post. I didn't write about a target price range because I was thinking about all years. Maybe in the 20-25k-price range. But what if I found an Old Lexus LS 400 creampuff with low mileage and garage kept? If I could find something like this for 5 or 8 thousand I would think about it, unless I knew that they were prone to expensive and known failures. Naturally I'd like to get the best deal, so I am not opposed to getting an older well cared for car, if their isn't major problems with the first few years of car (1990 to 1995.) Oh yeah, one more thing. I like the larger car, it would suite my needs better. Thanks, Jeb >I would like to buy a used Lexus LS-400 or a Lexus LS-430 in the next year >or two perhaps (depending on my health.) I feel that they are a very well [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Thanks in advance for your input, suggestions and opinions. Your research pretty much covers typical problems with the LS. The optronic displays seem to be a little more durable now. Look for one without the air suspension and you should be good to go. Happy motoring!  SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>I would like to buy a used Lexus LS-400 or a Lexus LS-430 in the next year >>or two perhaps (depending on my health.) I feel that they are a very well [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Happy motoring! Hello Ray O, Or is it just Ray? Anyway I have seen many posts by you and I'm always impressed by your replays. You obviously know what you're talking about. If you don't mind me asking, what is your background and how did you become so acquainted with the Lexus? It seems like you are an engineer or mechanic who has in-depth knowledge of the cars. Either way, you're always right with your answers because I always double check to make sure that the information I am getting is correct. I always try to get my answers before bothering people with the answers that are easily available. Honestly I don't have a clue what the optronic displays are. Are they what one would call the instrument cluster or gauges? Many thanks Ray for all the help you have given others and me. I try to get my information in all other places before asking for help. I only ask questions in user groups when I am stumped. Thanks, Jeb >>>I would like to buy a used Lexus LS-400 or a Lexus LS-430 in the next >>>year or two perhaps (depending on my health.) I feel that they are a [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > > Jeb Just "Ray" works ;-) I am not an engineer or mechanic, although I have always had an interest in cars. I remember watching my dad work on cars on weekends and have tinkered with them well before I had a driver's license. After college, I worked at Toyota's San Francisco and Boston regional offices for about 15 years. Among my jobs was calling on dealers and helping them fix problem cars. I remember all of the discussion and talk when the Lexus division was formed, and was fortunate to drive and LS prototype before they were introduced in the U.S. A Lexus is technically the same as a Toyota and there are more mechanical, electronic, and operational similarities than there are differences. I have let my ASE Master and Toyota Master tech certifications expire, but the principles behind cars are basically the same now as they were when Toyota introduced fuel injection in the 1979-1/2 Supra and Cressida. I think you will enjoy the LS, I know I do! My biggest complaint is that I no longer get a new car every 3 or 4 months, and I have to pay for them! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>>>I would like to buy a used Lexus LS-400 or a Lexus LS-430 in the next >>>>year or two perhaps (depending on my health.) I feel that they are a [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > I think you will enjoy the LS, I know I do! My biggest complaint is that > I no longer get a new car every 3 or 4 months, and I have to pay for them! Ray, I think you're being modest here (which works for me.) You know the car very well. Like I said in the earlier thread, I'm just wondering if I bought an older "creampuff" if I'd encounter any real problems other than what I mentioned? I know I have to look out for the early air suspensions. Do they still use air suspensions and if they do are they dependable? What if I got an old car that was "Cheery Pie" and always dealer serviced and garaged kept, do you think even an old one would be ok? I'm talking 1990 to 1995 here. I am having some heath problems and I don't know how much money I can afford in the next year. I'd like to buy a newer car but I may not be able to do it at that time. I have already looked at small shops that specialize in Lexus and have even looked into what the Better Business Bureau said about them, so I think that I have some good references in Southern California for dependable repair shops. Maybe I'd be ok getting an older car. And yes I've even looked into reputable (I think) companies that repair the older instrument clusters. Here is one: http://www.bba-reman.com/catalogue/DetailedProduct.aspx?DetailedProduct=394 This isn't my first choice but I don't know how well I'll be doing in the next year and even a new car (whatever brand) is more expensive than what I'm looking at. After ten years, I think that I've let the resale value of the car depreciate enough for me. Oh yeah, I'm not afraid to put some money into an older car that has some promise. I've always serviced my own cars and have done very well but I may not be able to that in the near future. Sorry for talking your ears off. Sorry about not getting that new car every 3 or 4 months. I wish I had that same problem. Jeb/AKA Dennis in Anaheim >>>>>I would like to buy a used Lexus LS-400 or a Lexus LS-430 in the next >>>>>year or two perhaps (depending on my health.) I feel that they are a [quoted text clipped - 134 lines] > > Jeb/AKA Dennis in Anaheim The problem with a 1990 to 1995 car is that it will be between 12 and 17 years old. At that age, especially in Southern California, rubber and plastic parts will begin to deteriorate, so there will be more of a tendency for seals, gaskets, and hoses in the transmission, engine, suspension, and body to crack, crumble, and leak or make noise. Also, although the useable life of automatic transmissions have increased greatly, they still have a finite lifetime, so I would be nervous about an automatic transmission with over 200,000 miles. As someone else mentioned, you may wish to consider an ES, but only if the owner has meticulously changed the oil, or a GS, which is rear wheel drive. I would try not to purchase a car over 10 years old so that your chances of owning it for a longer time without problems are improved. One problem that you did not mention above that I ran into with my 2000 LS 400 is that the starter failed. Normally, I would just change it myself but it is located in the valley between the cylinder banks, underneath the intake manifold, and it failed in the dead of winter in the Midwest so I let the local Lexus dealer change it, which set me back $1,000. The air suspension on the 2000 was beginning to sag when parked overnight, but the on-board compressor had no problem bringing it back up when the engine was running. My 2001 LS has the dynamic laser cruise control, and an errant rock broke the lens so I am currently without cruise control. I suspect that will be another $500 to $1,000 repair, although I have not had it priced yet. Of course, that would not be a problem with the conventional cruise control. Stay healthy! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > The problem with a 1990 to 1995 car is that it will be between 12 and 17 > years old. At that age, especially in Southern California, rubber and [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Stay healthy! Although it is hard to disagree about rubber/plastic deterioration, I have been told over and over again, that the First Generation LS400 is one of the top 5 most reliable cars ever built (not necessarily the BEST, only the most reliable - it is NOT without faults ). My 1990 has 214K and except for some pretty crappy city mileage, it's still very strong (Highway 24/mpg). Their resale selling price is nothing less than a bargain to potential buyers (IF THEY HAVE BEEN PROPERLY CARED FOR). They need to be maintained, but I have never been left without transportation. I spend about $1K/year now on (preventative) maintenanience, whether it needs it or not. >> The problem with a 1990 to 1995 car is that it will be between 12 and 17 >> years old. At that age, especially in Southern California, rubber and [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > I spend about $1K/year now on (preventative) maintenanience, whether it > needs it or not. Jerohm, If a car is parked in the garage for most of it's life then the plastic problem isn't a problem, however if a car is a daily drive and used to commute to work and left backing in the sun all day then that can be a problem. Obviously I'd have to inspect it well. I wouldn't buy a car with over 100K on it and I'd drive it less than 2,500 miles a year. Your post has reminded me of something interesting. There is this lady that owns the doughnut shop around the corner that owns a 1994 Lexus LS 400. My roommate told me that the car is cherry and always washed, never dirty and looks like new, including the interior. The way that the building sits and where she parks is in the shade for most of the day. Anyway, I'm not sure how many miles are on the car but my roommate told me that he talked to her about her car and she said that she only had her car serviced at a Lexus dealership at all the recommended intervals. If this car has fewer than 100k on it and it's clean I'd be interested in buying it. I'm not a chiseler when it comes to getting what I want. The most important thing to me is low mileage, proven regular maintenance and good condition. Other than that car color really doesn't matter. Now the hard part, she's never mentioned wanting to sell it. I was telling my roommate who always talks to her, that if she is interested in selling it I'd be interested in buying it. Jeb And I have to say that I'm very impressed with your cars dependability. From what I've read and heard about the Lexus, you could easily go another 100k. You have the right idea about regular car maintenance. I always tell people that regularly changing the fluids in the car is one of the important things you can do to your car as preventative measure and one of the least expensive I might add. >>>>>>I would like to buy a used Lexus LS-400 or a Lexus LS-430 in the next >>>>>>year or two perhaps (depending on my health.) I feel that they are a [quoted text clipped - 165 lines] > > Stay healthy! Hello Ray, Ray, I have to respectfully disagree with you on the rubber and plastic parts here in southern California. I have worked with auto mechanics when I was younger and then worked as a Maintenance Mechanic later in life. I've done most of my maintenance on my cars. I own a 1972 Ford F-250, that's 35 years old and has no rust and runs like a top. The plastic is fine. I bought it 1992. At that time I spent $3,000.for in but the guy had receipts for some high-end automotive shop and just had spent $2,600 getting a rebuilt engine. I haven't put 12,000 miles on it since then. I never drove the truck much and only wanted it to do project around the house etc. It was never a daily driver. If I can find a car that is garage kept and driven little this is what I'd be looking for and have seen several of them on "Craig's list." I want a car with around 80K miles on it. And I know it may be hard but they do exist. When I started looking into these Lexus's I went car shopping on the Internet. Unfortunately most of the cars on the Internet are now sold buy dealers. I wondered how honest the dealers were. The dealer cars always had lower mileage then the comparable car being sold through private parties. Well, I've always wondered about carfax but they wanted something like $19.95 for one report, which I thought was ridicules. Then I found out that I could get carfax for $24.00 for one month and unlimited car searches. Most of the small car lots were miss-reporting the mileage on the vehicles. Also many of the cars were sold to dealer after dealer with some of them being lease and rental cars while other we repossessions. This is definitely not what I want. I will only buy from private party and the 1st or 2nd owner. <snipped> >> The problem with a 1990 to 1995 car is that it will be between 12 and 17 >> years old. At that age, especially in Southern California, rubber and [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > miles on it since then. I never drove the truck much and only wanted it > to do project around the house etc. It was never a daily driver. I'm sure you can find 15 and 20 year old cars with well-preserved rubber and plastic parts in soutthern California. I am not thinking so much about what its condition isat the time you purchase the vehicle, but what it would be like in 5 or 10 years, when the car is 20 or 25 years old as a daily driver. > If I can find a car that is garage kept and driven little this is what I'd > be looking for and have seen several of them on "Craig's list." I want a [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > repossessions. This is definitely not what I want. I will only buy from > private party and the 1st or 2nd owner. The reason the dealers tend to have more low-mileage cars than independent used car lots or private parties is because they cherry-pick the used cars. The not-so-nice cars go the auction or are wholesaled to independent lots, or owners decide to try to sell the car themselves instead of taking a lower-trade-in at the dealership. The problem I see with Carfax is that while the presence of an entry in a car's history means it probably accurate, the absence of an entry is not necessarily accurate because not all repair facilities report stuff to Carfax. Fortunately, the new electronic odometers make it more likely that the mileage indicated is correct. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) > <snipped> > [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > lots, or owners decide to try to sell the car themselves instead of taking > a lower-trade-in at the dealership. Interesting but I still don't care for the small lots. > The problem I see with Carfax is that while the presence of an entry in a > car's history means it probably accurate, the absence of an entry is not > necessarily accurate because not all repair facilities report stuff to > Carfax. Fortunately, the new electronic odometers make it more likely > that the mileage indicated is correct. Actually it is surprisingly accurate. Carfax reports when the car has been registered, changed owners, smogged, repossessed or had a lien on the car. Oh yeah, the most important thing is the "flood cars." It can see if the car was ever issued a salvage title and then reregistered. I ran a carfax on my roommate's car and he was shocked on how accurate it was. Of course there are things that you'll never know about how the car was treated or serviced but if it was serviced by a reputable dealer then that shows also. I won't buy another car without running carfax. I don't know if you have used it before but if you want I can send you (or anyone) a sample from a I car that I looked into. <snip> >Actually it is surprisingly accurate. Carfax reports when the car has been >registered, changed owners, smogged, repossessed or had a lien on the car. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >used it before but if you want I can send you (or anyone) a sample from a I >car that I looked into. It's a good reference point but it certainly isn't the definative source. In fact, Carfax has a class action lawsuit filed against them because they advertise that they provide "a complete vehicle history report", and in fact a large amount of information may NOT show up on a CARFAX report. To be fair, they can't report what isn't reported. Here's some info on the lawsuit: http://tinyurl.com/35rdqq <snipped> >> The reason the dealers tend to have more low-mileage cars than >> independent used car lots or private parties is because they cherry-pick [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Interesting but I still don't care for the small lots. In my experience, small independent lots are not as willing to stand behind their cars as new car dealers. >> The problem I see with Carfax is that while the presence of an entry in a >> car's history means it probably accurate, the absence of an entry is not [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > if you have used it before but if you want I can send you (or anyone) a > sample from a I car that I looked into. I have seen Carfax reports, and the info they report is pretty accurate. Registrations, smog checks, salvage titles, etc. are in the public domain, and Carfax is a convenient way to collate this information. It is the information that is not reported to Carfax that I would worry about. Even if you get a Carfax report, it would be a safe bet to have a reputable and competent technician check any car you are interested in. I can usually spot bodywork, and bodywork that I can't easily spot is probably as good as the factory paint job. A competent technician should be able to do the same, along wit checking the transmission, engine, brakes, body, etc. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >I would like to buy a used Lexus LS-400 or a Lexus LS-430 in the next year >or two perhaps (depending on my health.) I feel that they are a very well [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Thanks in advance for your input, suggestions and opinions. I currently have a 2002 LS430, and a 1992 SC400. Previously had a 1991 LS400. I will be a little stronger than former posters. Do NOT consider a car with air suspension. Our 1991 LS400 had air suspension, and it was a disaster. Conversion is a possibility but not inexpensive-- better just to stay away from it. The 2002 LS430 is a fabulous car-- NO problems to date--5+ years and 62K miles. I bought my 1992 SC400 new in 1991, now has almost 200K miles. Rubber degradation (SF Bay Area) has not been a problem-- still have the original radiator hoses, and vacuum hoses and I watch them carefully. Leather has finally started to give-up, despite Lexol treatment the last 5 years. For the early LS400 your homework has been good-- you hit most of the 'expected problems'. I had them all. One you missed is leaking/'smudged' heater/AC Controller LCD. Now replacement LCD's available for approx $120. I am still a big Lexus booster. My in-laws have a 2003 ES330, but it's not near the car the LS400/430 is IMHO. Good luck! >>I would like to buy a used Lexus LS-400 or a Lexus LS-430 in the next year >>or two perhaps (depending on my health.) I feel that they are a very well [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > disaster. Conversion is a possibility but not inexpensive-- better just to > stay away from it. I definitely won't > The 2002 LS430 is a fabulous car-- NO problems to date--5+ years and 62K > miles. I bought my 1992 SC400 new in 1991, now has almost 200K miles. > Rubber degradation (SF Bay Area) has not been a problem-- still have the > original radiator hoses, and vacuum hoses and I watch them carefully. > Leather has finally started to give-up, despite Lexol treatment the last 5 > years. Leather has started to give up? Worn and torn maybe or just degrading? Maybe it spent too much time in the sun with the windows up? I guess that Lexol is the preferred treatment for leather seats? > For the early LS400 your homework has been good-- you hit most of the > 'expected problems'. I had them all. One you missed is leaking/'smudged' > heater/AC Controller LCD. Now replacement LCD's available for approx > $120. Thanks, I've added that to my list of possible problems > I am still a big Lexus booster. My in-laws have a 2003 ES330, but it's > not near the car the LS400/430 is IMHO. > > Good luck! Xplant, Thanks for the sage advice. I definitely will NOT BUY one with the air ride suspension based your advice and the advice of others. I owned a 1988 Lincoln Mark VII LSC with anti-stop brakes (no, not anti-lock.) Although the anti-lock brakes were designed to prevent them from skidding they also didn't stop the car very well. Biggest pieces of junk I ever owned. It also had problems with the airbags. They needed to be replaced because they were cracked and leaking. So I've had my experience with bad air bags also (airbag, not to confused with my ex-wife.) Jeb > I will be a little stronger than former posters. Do NOT consider a car with > air suspension. Our 1991 LS400 had air suspension, and it was a disaster. I spent $3k in rebuilding just the rear Air Suspension on my '90 LS. One strut, then the other, then the air pump. The rear air suspension pump is a $1600 part new (bought used for $275). That is one weakness in an otherwise fantastic car - 17 years old, 260k miles. Wonderful drivetrain. I had them all. One you missed is leaking/'smudged' > heater/AC Controller LCD. Now replacement LCD's available for approx $120. Where can I find a replacement heater/AC controller LCD? Mine also is out. Chip L > Where can I find a replacement heater/AC controller LCD? Mine also is > out. > : > Chip L http://motors.search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&f cl=3&from=R10&sojs=0&satitle=lexus+ls400+lcd&sacat=6028%26catref%3DC6&fmmk=&fmmd =&fylo=&fyhi=&mppfqy=lexus+ls400+lcd&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FP ostal&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=2%26fsoo%3D2&coaction=compare&copagen um=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp= >> I will be a little stronger than former posters. Do NOT consider a car >> with [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Chip L Chip, I'm a little late on this thread but here is another place that sells them for a fixed price. http://parts.lextreme.com/interior.html These prices seem to be very fair. Jeb Regarding the problem with air suspension, is this a problem with LS430s as well as LS400s ? I'm not familiar with the problem, and since I've decided to look into buying a 2004 LS430, I want to familiarize myself with known problems with that car. Is the suspension adjustable by a switch or knob on the dash or console on the 04 ? If so, I want to know where to look so that I'll know immediately if the car is so-equipped. Thanks > Regarding the problem with air suspension, is this a problem with LS430s > as [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thanks There is a ride height switch in vehicles with the air suspension. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) On 4/5/07 12:32 AM, in article dbcc1$46147bdc$47c2b532$19177@msgid.meganewsservers.com, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote: Thanks Ray. I'll watch for that switch (I assume it's on the center console ?) walt > There is a ride height switch in vehicles with the air suspension. > On 4/5/07 12:32 AM, in article > dbcc1$46147bdc$47c2b532$19177@msgid.meganewsservers.com, "Ray O" [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >> There is a ride height switch in vehicles with the air suspension. In my '01 LS, the switch is near the bottom of the "stack" in the center of the dashboard that comes down to meet the console with the shifter. There is a horizontal row of buttons - one to select sport or normal ride, one for suspension height, one for the headlight washer, and one or two more that I can't recall offhand - I think they are for the rear sunshade and to return the rear seat to the upright position. If you look in the rear wheel well, you will see a rubber bladder inside the coil spring. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) I have a 1992 LS 400 which I bought in '94. It has 125k miles on it now and has been the best car I ever owned wrt comfort, driveability and reliability. I have had minimal problems with it. The problems were with the a-c that needed a complete overhaul at about 70k miles, a overheating problem caused by debris between the a-c condenser coils and the radiator coils, and a TRAC lite problem. Other than that the car has been really good. If and when I need another car it will definitely be a Lexus 400 class. >>I would like to buy a used Lexus LS-400 or a Lexus LS-430 in the next year >>or two perhaps (depending on my health.) I feel that they are a very well [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > >Good luck! |
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