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Car Forum / Lexus Cars / May 2008Transmission on 2001 RX 300
I would appreciate any comments on the story I am getting from my Lexus dealer. My wife has a 2001 RX 300. We bought it CPO (Certified Pre-Owned) in 2003. Friday afternoon, she called me from a friend's house saying it was making strange noises and seemed to have difficulty shifting out of low gear. I called the dealer where we bought it and who has done all of the service. They sent a flat bed truck to get it. The tow truck driver drove it onto the flat bed truck. I didn't hear any noises. He showed me what appeared to be oil streaks on the lower side of the car just behind the right front wheel. I also noticed what appeared to be quite a bit of oil on that wheel housing. But there was no oil under where the car had been parked while it was waiting for the tow truck (about 90 minutes). A few hours later, the service tech called. They had not had a chance to work on it, but it will not move at all and they believe it is the transmission. I asked him what ha caused this. He said they wouldn't know for sure until they take it apart, but they just wear out. I asked him if it could be caused by a service mistake, like not replacing the transmission oil or not tightening an oil plug or something. It was just in for service in February. He said "No, there is still oil in there". There are no oil spots in the garage where it is parked. I am puzzled by the oil streaks on the side of the car (if that's even what they were) and the oil on the right front wheel housing. Isn't the transmission in the rear? He quoted me $6,300 for a new transmission. What is the expected life of an RX 300 transmission? What chance do I have to get this covered by Lexus. I believe the CPO warranty was for 5 (more) years or up to 100,000 (total) miles. We are well past the 5 years, but well under the 100,000 miles. He also said that they usually do not even open up the transmission if is it completely frozen, like this one is. They just replace it. should I insist that they try to figure out what the problem was? The car had 35,000 miles on it when we bought it. It now has 68,000. My wife puts about 7,000 miles on it each year, 90% city driving. She is a very careful driver. Thanks for any suggestions. >I would appreciate any comments on the story I am getting from my > Lexus dealer. [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Thanks for any suggestions. Was the oil on the side of the car and not underneath? Oil leaking from a powertrain component is more likely to be on the undercarriage than on the side of the car, so I would imagine that oil on the side came from an external source. What kind of oil did you see? Was it automatic transmission fluid? The transmission is located under the hood to the left (from the prospective of the passenger compartment ) of the engine. Transmissions are pretty complicated, and dealers have gone to complete replacement rather than try to repair it with unacceptable results. There are some basic tests like pressure tests and solenoid checks that they should do before replacing the transmission. If the transmission is not producing the correct pressure, then it probably needs replacement. What is the condition of the automatic transmission fluid (ATF)? If a shift solenoid is not engaging, a solenoid replacement is relatively simple and inexpensive compared to a transmission replacement. You can try contacting Lexus customer relations and plead your case there to see if they can offer any out-of-warranty assistance. Good luck!  SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >Was the oil on the side of the car and not underneath? What the tow truck driver showed me was on the side of the car on the narrow strip of body sheet metal underneath the door just behind the right front wheel. There were 6-8 "streaks" similar in shape to the streamlets of water on a windshield when the is moving. >Oil leaking from a >powertrain component is more likely to be on the undercarriage than on the >side of the car, so I would imagine that oil on the side came from an >external source. What kind of oil did you see? Was it automatic >transmission fluid? I didn't touch them myself. He wiped a finger across them and to show me that they were wet. If I recall correctly, then were angled up and back at about a 30-40 degree angle (from 4 o'clock to 10 o'clock). >The transmission is located under the hood to the left (from the prospective >of the passenger compartment ) of the engine. That would make it difficult to leak on the right (opposite) side, no? >Transmissions are pretty complicated, and dealers have gone to complete >replacement rather than try to repair it with unacceptable results. I wasn't trying to get them to repair vs replace it. I just wanted to know what broke. Can this type of failure be caused by incorrect maintenance, like not tightening an oil plug after changing the oil? >There >are some basic tests like pressure tests and solenoid checks that they >should do before replacing the transmission. If the transmission is not >producing the correct pressure, then it probably needs replacement. I assume they did or will do whatever tests they need to. We also have a '99 LS 400, also CPO. Both have had all service at this dealership. The service is not cheap, but we have had no provlems. >What is >the condition of the automatic transmission fluid (ATF)? I don't know. It had an A-level service in February. >If a shift >solenoid is not engaging, a solenoid replacement is relatively simple and >inexpensive compared to a transmission replacement. > >You can try contacting Lexus customer relations and plead your case there to >see if they can offer any out-of-warranty assistance. The tech was going to talk to Lexus about covering this under warranty. If that doesn't work, I'll appeal to the dealership itself, since I have bought 2 cars from them. If that fails, I'll call Lexus. Thanks >>Was the oil on the side of the car and not underneath? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > me that they were wet. If I recall correctly, then were angled up and > back at about a 30-40 degree angle (from 4 o'clock to 10 o'clock). That sounds more like something kicked up from the front tires than from the transmission. >>The transmission is located under the hood to the left (from the >>prospective >>of the passenger compartment ) of the engine. > > That would make it difficult to leak on the right (opposite) side, no? That would make it very difficult to leak on the opposite side. >>Transmissions are pretty complicated, and dealers have gone to complete >>replacement rather than try to repair it with unacceptable results. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Can this type of failure be caused by incorrect maintenance, like not > tightening an oil plug after changing the oil? If you are talking about the engine oil plug, the answer is no. If the engine lost all of its oil, the engine would probably seize, but the transmission would not be affected. If you had a transmission service and you are talking about the transmission fluid, the answer is possibly, but you would see fresh red automatic transmission fluid (ATF) under the front of the vehicle and the transmission fluid level would be low or empty. You said that the dealership said that the fluid level was full. There are a couple of other possibilities if you had a relatively recent transmission service. If you had the transmission flushed for the first time at over 60,000 miles, it is possible that the flush dislodged sludge that clogged one of the valves. Another possibility is that the wrong ATF was used. >>There >>are some basic tests like pressure tests and solenoid checks that they [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I don't know. It had an A-level service in February. I'm not sure what you mean by "A-level" service, but if that is an oil change and tire rotation, then the likelihood that the service caused the transmission failure is very very slim. I have heard of quick oil change places draining the transmission fluid by mistake, but the car won't even make it out of the service bay if that were th4e case.\ >>If a shift >>solenoid is not engaging, a solenoid replacement is relatively simple and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thanks You're welcome, good luck! SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >>>Was the oil on the side of the car and not underneath? >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >That sounds more like something kicked up from the front tires than from the >transmission. That's what it looked like to me, but the guy showed it to me. But then, he was just the tow truck driver. Nice guy, probably just trying to be helpful, but not a mechanic. >>>The transmission is located under the hood to the left (from the >>>prospective [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >transmission fluid (ATF) under the front of the vehicle and the transmission >fluid level would be low or empty. I think the last transmission service was on 3/15/07. The car had a D-level service. That's the most comprehensive service done every 60,000 miles. >You said that the dealership said that >the fluid level was full. I think they said that it was not empty. >There are a couple of other possibilities if you had a relatively recent >transmission service. If you had the transmission flushed for the first >time at over 60,000 miles, it is possible that the flush dislodged sludge >that clogged one of the valves. The D service was over a year ago. Would it take this long to cause a problem? >Another possibility is that the wrong ATF >was used. Again, I would think that would show up sooner than 13 months. No? >>>There >>>are some basic tests like pressure tests and solenoid checks that they [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >places draining the transmission fluid by mistake, but the car won't even >make it out of the service bay if that were th4e case.\ Yes, an A service is basically lube and oil. It was done by the dealership. >>>If a shift >>>solenoid is not engaging, a solenoid replacement is relatively simple and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >You're welcome, good luck! >>>>Was the oil on the side of the car and not underneath? >>> [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > The D service was over a year ago. Would it take this long to cause a > problem? If a service causes a transmisison problem, the symptoms usually show up immediately or within a month. The same is true if the wrong ATF is used. >>Another possibility is that the wrong ATF >>was used. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Yes, an A service is basically lube and oil. It was done by the > dealership. If that is the case, it is highly unlikely that anything the dealer did caused the problem. SignatureRay O (correct punctuation to reply) >I would appreciate any comments on the story I am getting from my > Lexus dealer. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > He quoted me $6,300 for a new transmission. Since the Highlander is the same vehicle, you ought to check with a Toyota dealer for a replacement cost. Probably will be cheaper. I was not aware that Toyota was having problems with the RX 300 transmission .. just a 4 speed as I recollect. > What is the expected life of an RX 300 transmission? > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Thanks for any suggestions. There was a fix in 2002 for it, but I doubt Toyota will give that for free. And now you know the probable reason why the previous owner got rid of the car. It's a known defect, so maybe Toyota will cut some slacks and cover it. A little Google will show you that there are many problems with the 01 RX transmission. But normally Toyota is going to stick it to you after CPO. The dealer's already told you that ($6300). I'd use that money for a down payment on a new BMW. Might as well get a true luxury car. DetMich1, Club Lexus: "My friend Shelby, a service writer at Lexus tells me the transmission failures on the AWD models is common on the 99-01 model years. Lexus switched transmissions for 2002 and beyond and solved the problem. When I was car shopping she said "don't buy an AWD RX 300 manufactured prior to 2002. Also, the oil sludging problem wasn't corrected until late 2001 (due to a wide temperature differential between the block and cylinder heads). The experience with any single car can be good or bad but statistically over a large sample, the incidence of problems is much lower with model years 2002 and newer." > I would appreciate any comments on the story I am getting from my > Lexus dealer. [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Thanks for any suggestions. >I'd use that money for a down payment on a new BMW. Might as well get >a true luxury car. What do you drive, john? >>I'd use that money for a down payment on a new BMW. Might as well get >>a true luxury car. > > What do you drive, john? The silence speaks loudly, doesn't it? I strongly suspect he's a Lexus owner. > There was a fix in 2002 for it, but I doubt Toyota will give that for > free. And now you know the probable reason why the previous owner got [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > bad but statistically over a large sample, the incidence of problems > is much lower with model years 2002 and newer." Interesting! We owned a 01 RX and got rid of it before 30k and bought a Pilot. We had several reasons, one of which was the gelling problem which ours was showing despire "by the book" expensive Lexus maintenance. Given what you indicate here, I made a good call. >> I would appreciate any comments on the story I am getting from my >> Lexus dealer. [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >> >> Thanks for any suggestions. As I recall Johngd has listed his cars in the past. And unless memory fails me, there were some German cars in there as well as a Jap car. Right now I only own Jap cars. But with summer coming and having to fight that dratted stupid uncontrollable "automatic" air, I am really beginning to think about car shopping again. Please do! Anything but a Lexus! It's only fair for you to go elsewhere to share your infinite wisdom with another unsuspecting newsgroup. If you wouldn't mind, please take Long Dong with you... > As I recall Johngd has listed his cars in the past. And unless memory > fails me, there were some German cars in there as well as a Jap car. > Right now I only own Jap cars. But with summer coming and having to > fight that dratted stupid uncontrollable "automatic" air, I am really > beginning to think about car shopping again. > As I recall Johngd has listed his cars in the past. And unless memory > fails me, there were some German cars in there as well as a Jap car. > Right now I only own Jap cars. But with summer coming and having to > fight that dratted stupid uncontrollable "automatic" air, I am really > beginning to think about car shopping again. The regulars here would probably be willing to take up a collection to help. Signaturesjs On the other hand, we'd be losing the entertainment value... You know, Honda and Acura edged BMW/Mini out of best resale value since a couple of years ago. I didn't realize VW is in there these days, but VW now works closely with Porsche in engineering as well. And Porsche ranked #1 in JD Powers initial quality survey (http:// www.gizmag.com/go/7410/). How Much Is Your Car Worth? By Gina Chon, Wall Street Journal Sister brands Honda and Acura topped the latest list of vehicle brands with the best resale value -- an important measure for upscale car buyers -- edging out longtime leader BMW. Volkswagen, which moved up to No. 2, and BMW and its Mini brand, tied for third, also earned high marks in Kelley Blue Book's survey for the 2007 model year, as foreign brands took almost all the top honors. Kelley Blue Book expects Honda and Acura's latest vehicles to retain nearly 56% of their original retail price in five years. VW and BMW/ Mini ... > Interesting! We owned a 01 RX and got rid of it before 30k and bought a > Pilot. We had several reasons, one of which was the gelling problem which > ours was showing despire "by the book" expensive Lexus maintenance. Given > what you indicate here, I made a good call.
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