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Car Forum / Lexus Cars / August 2004new window motor
hi Have a 90 LS400. Seems the window motor in the drivers side door has gone out. The switch draws power, but the window wont move. I have the internal door skin off, and removed the speaker, but can't figure out how to remove the mechanism. Any advice? thanks > hi > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > thanks This is kind of spooky. I JUST went through the exact same situation with the my 90 LS400 last weekend. AFTER you removed the four mounting bolts for the motor/gear assembly, did you try the switch again? My motor WORKED! On the outer top edge of the door, there is a round circle cutout stuck over an access hole (actually there are a total of three or four of these. They allow access to the bolts that the glass mount to the mechanism). The second hole (?) from the outer edge allows you to adjust the window stop (ORANGE is visible). Quite by accident, played around with this adjustment. If it allowed the window to go up too high, the window froze, and I had to remove the 4 mounting bolts to get things to work again - major pain... BUT if I moved the adjustment DOWN - just a hair, it has been working ever since! I also cleaned out the switch. The contact points for the auto down feature of the driver's window had a lot of carbon. Be careful if you decide to do this because there are 4 or 5 contact springs that just sit on pins and may go flying out when you open it up. It is actually very easy if you watch out for those springs. If this doesn't fix YOUR problem, I could see NO way of removing JUST the motor. It looked as if the motor was attacted to the gear assembly. If your remove the bolts to the glass, I think you may be able to get out the entire mechanism out the outer most access (not the speaker hole). Update me with your progress. >> hi >> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >Update me with your progress. OOO, good timing! I didnt get as far as removing any bolts attached to the motor. I'm not a very daring person, as far as cars go. But I'll give that a try. The switch still works, at least it makes the motor 'growl' quietly, so I'm sure the connection is good. That was my first suspect. Lexus's (Lexi?) are famously predictible, even in failure, so I probably have the same problem as you. I hope. hehehe I'll update when I have news. And if you happen to have any pictures of the door, that'd be killer. I think I'll take a few for illustration purposes. Hell, the only reason I was able to get the skin off is from the pics at www.carstereohelp.com They have some really good info about all models. Thanks for the tip Doc Follow up! I just undid all four bolts. Motor still wont move the window. It still whirrs and tries to move, but no dice. The cogged gear looks to be fine. I'm not sure how the motor comes out. I'll work on it more tomorrow when it's light out and i'm sober. Doc >>> hi >>> [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] >Thanks for the tip >Doc > Follow up! > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Doc If the motor is still working, with the bolts removed, the window WON'T move, but the entire mechanism (gear and motor assembly) SHOULD move when the switch is activated. With the 4 bolts out, the window may be stuck, but WILL be able to be pulled down (and up for that matter) by hand. Work the window up an down a couple of times so that it moves freely. As the window is moved manually (by hand) up & down, the entire mechanism is hanging on that 6"(?) track connected to the glass. If your motor IS working, manually position the glass at some open point. You will need to use the switch (motor) to position the mechanism to line up with the 4 holes for the mounting bolts. Re-bolt and try power window, BUT DO NOT RAISE TO THE COMPLETELY CLOSED POSITION. If your got this far, loosen the window stop adjustment (it has orange on it) and position it WAY LOW so that you can never completely close your window. Try it one or two time and see if everything still works. The motor seems to get pretty hot, so I would take a beer break here for an hour or so. Loosen the window stop adjustment and close window JUST enough to be closed without it binding up too tight against the top of its frame. Tighten the stop adjustment and try the switch. Good Luck >> Follow up! >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >move, but the entire mechanism (gear and motor assembly) SHOULD move when >the switch is activated. Well, the motor makes noise, but the geared 'wheel' does not budge. I would assume that wheel should move through the assembly when the button is pressed. The window is easily moved by hand, especially when the motor is unmounted from the door. But you can only go so high... I can get most of the wheel/motor assembly to show up in the vacated speaker box hole. I'm not sure what to do next. Vis-a-vis removal. I should drive it to the shop (they love me and my car by now) and have them test the motor, or whatnot. I'm pretty sure it's burnt. With the 4 bolts out, the window may be stuck, but >WILL be able to be pulled down (and up for that matter) by hand. Work the >window up an down a couple of times so that it moves freely. As the window [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >motor seems to get pretty hot, so I would take a beer break here for an hour >or so. Try as I might, I never found any orange adjustment. Thanks for your help Doc >Loosen the window stop adjustment and close window JUST enough to be closed >without it binding up too tight against the top of its frame. Tighten the >stop adjustment and try the switch. >Good Luck > Well, the motor makes noise, but the geared 'wheel' does not budge. > I would assume that wheel should move through the assembly when > the button is pressed. The window is easily moved by hand, especially > when the motor is unmounted from the door. But you can only go so > high... Well that is too bad. The only way "I" saw to get the motor mechanism out is to disconnect it from the window. There is a short track that connects the motor assembly to the glass. I would have thought that the "slide" could just be snapped out of the track... but I didn't discover how; it seems like you have to unbolt the track. Well I am sorry that your situation wasn't the same as mine. I would like to know how things work out for you (including what it ultimately cost you - I still may not be out of the woods). >> Well, the motor makes noise, but the geared 'wheel' does not budge. >> I would assume that wheel should move through the assembly when [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >for you (including what it ultimately cost you - I still may not be out of >the woods). I took it to the shop i"ve used before... they have a new manager, and he's a f.cking a.shole. Damn. That place was really cool before. Anyway, Ted the good guy said, since the motor still makes noise, it's likely the regulator gone faulty. it tells the motor not to move, as if the window is all the way up or down. I'll have to bang on it some or get a new regulator. Part cost was quoted around 165 bucks. Dear god, all that for a window. Oh well, it's a great car Doc > I took it to the shop i"ve used before... they have a new > manager, and he's a f.cking a.shole. Damn. That place was really [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Oh well, it's a great car > Doc Thanks for the update, and I feel for your situation. Did you try to clean out the switch? I am (reasonably) sure that the regulator he is taking about is in there. Besides the switches, there is a little solenoid and circuit board that is definitely associated with the drivers window. As I pointed out in a previous post, there was a ton of carbon built up on the associated contacts - which I cleaned up. However, there is something DIFFERENT between your case and mine. When my window DIDN'T work, I did NOT hear the motor AT ALL. If I was a betting man (which I am), I would think that the problem was STILL the motor/gear assembly - maybe the drive gear on the motor came loose or stripped. Did you mention to the guy that with the assembly unbolted, and the switch activated, there was no moving of the (drive) gears?? Just something to think about... (if you DO tackle the switch, please read my previous post about the little springs ... and be careful when you dissemble!) Further update appreciated! Thanks and good luck. >> I took it to the shop i"ve used before... they have a new >> manager, and he's a f.cking a.shole. Damn. That place was really [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >careful when you dissemble!) Further update appreciated! >Thanks and good luck. Well, more interesting news. I got the mechanism out entirely by removing the two bolts that attach the runner. So, once out I then removed the three flat or hexscrews which seperated the toothed gearwheel from the motor cog. Be careful! It was loaded and the thing nearly thwacked my finger. Hehe Anyway, I got the motor part seperated and then took the long black cover bit off. It's magnetic inside, and theres a 'piston' of sorts thats all wrapped in wire that spins, which turns the cogwheel. It ran just fine at this point, although it made odd noises. I reassembled the thing, and put the gear wheel back together, and it still worked. Smooth and effortless. So then I put the thing back in, hooked it up to the glass, put it back into the door, and tried again. It went about an inch before freezing up again. Crap. So i'm assuming it's a sensor problem. I guess.... Damn thing! Doc Have a sensor on the way from Tap Recycling.com 47 bucks with shipping. New they run 168. Dear god. Wish me luck Doc >>> I took it to the shop i"ve used before... they have a new >>> manager, and he's a f.cking a.shole. Damn. That place was really [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > >Doc > Have a sensor on the way from Tap Recycling.com > 47 bucks with shipping. New they run 168. Dear god. > > Wish me luck > Doc Luck - Is the sensor, the entire driver's switch assembly or something different? >> Have a sensor on the way from Tap Recycling.com >> 47 bucks with shipping. New they run 168. Dear god. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Luck - >Is the sensor, the entire driver's switch assembly or something different? I have no idea. heh I"ll take a pic for you when I get it. SHould be later this week. Doc Gah... They sent me a 'regulator', which is the arm that connects the motor to the door. The one with the coil in the middle and the toothed semi-wheel that the motor turns. Hardly a sensor, in my view. it senses nothing. Hopefully I'll get a refund... I did some more playing around with the motor. I dont know the official terminology, so I'll describe it best I can. The motor has a spindle inside a shaft that spins very fast based on a magnetic charge. If I even just loosen the two screws that hold the cover tight, the spindle will jump around abit. The motor will work just fine after that. However, as soon as i put everything back together, and move the window, it runs for a split second and quits again. So the motor is bad, or theres still a sensor 'malsensing'. Damnit! >>> Have a sensor on the way from Tap Recycling.com >>> 47 bucks with shipping. New they run 168. Dear god. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Doc > Gah... > They sent me a 'regulator', which is the arm that connects the motor [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Damnit! Sorry about your situation, but thanks for the updates ... keep them coming. As I described before, there is a solenoid control circuit in the switch assembly that I am 99.9% sure is associated with the auto feature of the driver's window. If you remove the switch(s) cover (don't forget about those contact springs!) you can see if the circuit is operating. When the drivers window auto feature is activated, the solenoid holds the switch closed applying current to the window motor. When the window is completely down, something tell the solenoid to cut out and the switch reverts to an open circuit. I never figured out exactly WHAT told the solenoid to de-energize. There is a small circuit board that is involved, and I ASSUMED it monitors current drain - so that when the motor runs up against resistance (i.e., the window being all the down) it detects excessive current and de-energizes the solenoid (and thus opening the circuit) - this is ONLY A GUESS HOWEVER! When everything was working properly, I could verify the operation of this circuit. HOWEVER, when MY window didn't operate, this circuit didn't appear to be the problem. The only thing that got my motor working was unscrewing the motor assembly. It was almost as if the motor got stuck and unscrewing it assembly somehow "unstuck" it !?!? Are your thoughts leaning towards the idea that the motor is shot or what? Also, how are you managing with having the door disassembled for so long? Better Luck Always, j >Sorry about your situation, but thanks for the updates ... keep them coming. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >current and de-energizes the solenoid (and thus opening the circuit) - this >is ONLY A GUESS HOWEVER! This is my next maneuver. I have the switch assembly here at my desk, and will pull it apart in a bit. As it is now, the switch and motor behave as if the sensor is noticing the window being all the way up or down. Clicking the down into auto mode, the switch promptly releases up after a minisecond. And my motor works fine when I pull the magnetic cover off just a bit and put everything back together. The motor runs with or without the control arm attached. But, once I put it back into the window, it promptly dies again. The window moves up and down just fine by hand (when unattached, of course), so I detect no channel problems. So I'll mess with the switch next and try it again. If that's no help, then a new window motor is likely in order. Crap! >When everything was working properly, I could verify the operation of this >circuit. HOWEVER, when MY window didn't operate, this circuit didn't appear [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Better Luck Always, >j Update! I cleaned the switch like you explained. Lots of carbon build up just like yours. BUT..... it fixed nothing. So my next stage is taking the motor from the back door and putting it in the front door. I'm thinking the motor is frizzled. It does make an odd noise when I get it running. If that's not the problem, then I'm buffaloed. Heck I couldn't tell from your original post if you had removed the vapor barrier. It needs to come off and its another major pain. I used a sharp knife to cut between the black sealant and the door. Try to have most of it stays with the plastic vapor barrier, but it doesn't matter much, because you are going to re-apply it to the door anyway. The black sealant is sticky as hell. Be careful when removing the push on connectors (?) used to hold the wires in place. They all WILL come out intact(hopefully) with a small knife pushing in at just the right spot(s). After you get the first one out, study how it works. They are all similar and have the same configuration that needs to be worked with the knife to pry them out. |
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