Anyone out there have any more information on this. Sounds like a similar
situation occured to my father's 4 month old ES 330, causing substantial
automobile and garage wall damage. Fortunately no one was hurt?
Nick
Again, NHTSA Probes Sudden Acceleration
By Harry Stoffer
Automotive News / March 22, 2004
WASHINGTON -- A relatively new technology, the electronic throttle, is a
leading suspect in a wave of claims that some vehicles unexpectedly
accelerate out of control.
Government investigators are looking at 2002-03 Toyota Camrys and Solaras
and Lexus ES 300s to determine whether they are defective. More than a
million of the cars are in service.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has begun a preliminary
investigation of the latest claims. It is gathering information about 37
complaints of sudden acceleration by owners of the Toyota and Lexus cars.
The complaints include 30 reports of crashes. They involved injuries to five
people; one of them was seriously hurt.
If NHTSA decides that the added data warrant more study, it will upgrade its
investigation to an engineering analysis. If the review identifies a defect,
NHTSA would push for a recall.
The specter of sudden acceleration has surfaced before. In the 1980s, Audi
of America Inc. was nearly driven out of the United States by claims that
its Audi 5000 sedan was prone to accelerate suddenly and uncontrollably.
Number of complaints to NHTSA about unintended
acceleration
YEAR COMPLAINTS
1987 2,284
1988 2,930
1989 2,442
1990 2,382
1991 1,939
1992 1,526
1993 1,315
1994 1,321
1995 1,016
1996 912
1997 783
1998 756
1999 1,647
2000 1,382
Source: A mid-2001 analysis of NHTSA records for Sudden
Acceleration: The Myth of Driver Error, by J. Castelli, C. Nash, C. Ditlow,
M. Pecht
Claims declined
Claims dropped after Audi installed shift-lock mechanisms, which require a
motorist to step on the brake before shifting into drive or reverse. All
vehicles with automatic transmissions, including those with electronic
throttles, now have shift locks.
NHTSA has concluded in many previous cases that most incidents of sudden
acceleration are caused not by vehicles' defects but by drivers' errors.
Drivers mistakenly stomp on gas pedals, instead of the brakes, the agency
says.
Nearly every automaker has faced such claims from time to time. Most of the
cases allege faults in cruise control systems.
The Second U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in 2002 reinstated a $1.1 million
judgment against Ford Motor Co. in response to the crash of a 1991 Ford
Aerostar. Jurors had found that the crash was caused partly by a
"negligently designed" cruise control system.
In the largest known judgment on the issue, a Missouri jury last year
ordered General Motors to pay an injured woman and her husband $80 million
for the crash of a 1993 Oldsmobile Cutlass that they blamed on sudden
acceleration induced by cruise control. GM is appealing, a spokeswoman says.
Drive by wire
Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. has not claimed that the latest complaints
are wrong but says it has not found similar records of complaints or
warranty claims in its files.
Toyota spokesman John Hanson confirmed that electronic throttles first
appeared in the vehicles under review in the 2002 model year. The technology
is spreading gradually throughout the Toyota and Lexus model lines, he says.
The system uses sensors to indicate the position of the accelerator pedal. A
control unit obtains signals from the sensors to adjust the throttle valve
and thereby change engine speed. Electronics replace the traditional
mechanical connection between the pedal and the throttle, such as a cable
and linkage.
NHTSA also is investigating electronic throttles in some 2002-03 Ford
F-series pickups and Excursion SUVs. Complaints in that case deal with
inability to increase engine speed, not unexpected acceleration.
Clarence Ditlow, director of the consumer group Center for Auto Safety,
isn't convinced. He says he believes malfunctioning cruise control systems
are to blame for many sudden acceleration incidents.
Other advanced electronics, including throttles, also could be sources of
problems, Ditlow says. "We are very concerned about it as you go more and
more to drive by wire," he says.
Ditlow is co-author of a new book called Sudden Acceleration: The Myth of
Driver Error. The book seeks to refute NHTSA's findings that most incidents
of sudden acceleration are caused by driver error. It also accuses
automakers of withholding evidence.
The authors, including a professor of engineering and another professor who
specializes in electronic systems, acknowledge that electronics help reduce
vehicle emissions and improve safety components. But they argue that the
auto industry should not force "its customers to debug its electronics."
They write: "The automotive environment, with its broad temperature and
humidity variations and vibration - and the long reliable life expected of
motor vehicles - can be a particular challenge for electronics that display
failures even in more benign circumstances," as in personal computers and
home appliances.
The authors cite the industry's efforts to increase the use of electronics
in vehicles while trimming costs.
They say: "This pressure can reduce the quality of electronics and
electronics integration, thus raising the risks of intermittent faults and
defective operation."
See also Technology Puts Unintended Acceleration Back in Spotlight
Dave Stone - 09 Aug 2004 08:35 GMT
> Anyone out there have any more information on this. Sounds like a
> similar situation occured to my father's 4 month old ES 330, causing
> substantial automobile and garage wall damage. Fortunately no one was
> hurt?
> Nick
Yes, the feds recently gave up on it. see:
http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw101734_20040727.htm
markjen - 09 Aug 2004 16:41 GMT
> > Anyone out there have any more information on this. Sounds like a
> > similar situation occured to my father's 4 month old ES 330, causing
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Yes, the feds recently gave up on it. see:
> http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw101734_20040727.htm
The problem with all these claims is that every car has an independent
braking system that has nothing to do with the throttle. And every car has
brakes that can quite easily overcome the engine's thrust, even at full
throttle.
OTOH, it has been proven that pedal error is relatively common driver fault.
With the new drive-by-wire throttles, the issue is getting murky again, and
there are (unlikely) scenarios where mechanical/electrical failures could
cause unintended acceleration. But the driver still has to forget to press
on the brake.
When I took driver's ed, we simulated stuck throttle emergencies and the
reaction taught was the same as should be used today: step on the brake
HARD to stop the car, then turn the ignition off. I doubt they teach this
today though.
- Mark
Philip? - 09 Aug 2004 19:14 GMT
>>> Anyone out there have any more information on this. Sounds like a
>>> similar situation occured to my father's 4 month old ES 330,
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> - Mark
Press HARD, eh?
Let me share a experience just yesterday.
A woman approach my wife an I as we were leaving a restaurant. She
asked us for assistance with her car. Seems she could get her 2000
Kia started but not into gear. Upshot, the car was borrowed. She was
resting her foot on the brake but not depressing it ... which would
then overcome the gear selector interlock. Draw your own
conclusions. The dumbing down of the American public is working ...
it's WORKING!! |^(

Signature
- Philip @ Maximum Torque RPM
Ice - 10 Aug 2004 01:05 GMT
I must agree with Markjen on the brake being strong enough as to hold the
car back under full throttle. As young and foolish youths we would " brake
torque" big block Chevys, Pontiacs, ect some of which had 400 cube plus
engines. This consisted of stomping on the brakes and pushing the pedal to
the floor make smoke pour off the rear tires. The brakes never failed under
this stress but I can not say the same for the busted motor mounts or the
occasional driveshaft that would roll out from under the car.
David Z - 10 Aug 2004 02:13 GMT
I'm bothered as much by the occasional bucking (i.e., unintended
acceleration) as I am by the hesitation issue. It seems to me that
these problems may be one and the same.
My 2004 ES330 often lurches when I first start it up, put it in drive
(but not reverse) and take my foot off the brake. It also bucks
occasionally right after it hesitates.
I don't consider these flaws safety issues. I can still control the
car. They're just annoying. These flaws don't annoy me to the point
where I regret having the car. At least not so far.
> Anyone out there have any more information on this. Sounds like a similar
> situation occured to my father's 4 month old ES 330, causing substantial
[quoted text clipped - 126 lines]
>
> See also Technology Puts Unintended Acceleration Back in Spotlight
Philip? - 10 Aug 2004 14:46 GMT
>snip<
> My 2004 ES330 often lurches when I first start it up, put it in
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> the car. They're just annoying. These flaws don't annoy me to
> the point where I regret having the car.
Make it a SELLING point. "This isn't a flaw, it's a FEATURE!"

Signature
Philip
An active imagination is a powerful and wondrous force ...
which is why you must NEVER let it have free rein inside your head.
Jeremiah - 10 Aug 2004 16:55 GMT
> I'm bothered as much by the occasional bucking (i.e., unintended
> acceleration) as I am by the hesitation issue. It seems to me that
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> car. They're just annoying. These flaws don't annoy me to the point
> where I regret having the car. At least not so far.
Let's see now,.......you don't regret this..."flaw"? Even after paying how
much for this car?
David Z - 10 Aug 2004 23:39 GMT
> > I'm bothered as much by the occasional bucking (i.e., unintended
> > acceleration) as I am by the hesitation issue. It seems to me that
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Let's see now,.......you don't regret this..."flaw"?
I didn't say that. I said I don't regret buying this car DESPITE this
flaw. I was fully aware of this flaw when I bought it. I still prefer
this car over all the others I looked at including BMW, Acura and
Infinity.
MCBRUE - 12 Aug 2004 03:23 GMT
Sure glad I read this newsgroup. The ES330 is a real sweet car! If it isn't
refusing to go when you step on the gas, it is lurching forth by itself! And
the engine gunks up with sludge. The brakes have rotors which can be used to
replace the rotors which come on the car if the first ones warp too badly. The
LS430 is a little bit better, merely refusing to go when you step on the gas. I
don't think it suddenly accelerates by itself but I could be wrong. However,
the mirror leaks out a deadly poison. And my dealer in Greenville SC sells them
so fast you have to have him call you when he gets one in so you can test drive
it (or just go to a neighboring town where they have plenty). Yep! Gotta run
right out and get one of these magnificant kudzu karz!