Why would a manufacturer skip something like a cold air intake and
miss out on the (AEM claims) of 8 or 9 HP and a good serving of torque?
For $200.00, this simple mod can't be beat.
Performance chips are another mystery. This is software to control
timing, right? It flat out says the after market crowd is better at
tuning a car than the manufacturer. Aftermarket claims zero drawbacks
to the chip (cels or wear and tear). So why didn't the manufacturer
do it right themselves?
I'm a total novice at this. Beyond changing a blown gasket and oil
changes, I haven't worked on cars much. The CAI would be my first
mod. Real gains in performance or just wishful thinking?
It'd be for a Mazda3 by the way. (No software yet for the timing
that I know of, but I'm still curious about the chips)
Dana Myers - 16 Jun 2004 18:10 GMT
> Why would a manufacturer skip something like a cold air intake and
> miss out on the (AEM claims) of 8 or 9 HP and a good serving of torque?
> For $200.00, this simple mod can't be beat.
Invest in some before/after dyno runs. If you live in CA, make sure
you get one that's CARB-certified; I know someone that put a cheap
CAI in his car and pulled over for his loud (Uncle Ben) muffler
and then cited for the non-CARB CAI. Cost $200 and a trip to the
test-only station for the ticket.
> Performance chips are another mystery. This is software to control
> timing, right? It flat out says the after market crowd is better at
> tuning a car than the manufacturer. Aftermarket claims zero drawbacks
> to the chip (cels or wear and tear). So why didn't the manufacturer
> do it right themselves?
What's the mystery? A manufacturer tunes a car to provide
the best combination of reliability, economy, driveability,
performance and emissions compliance. An aftermarket tuner
can maximize top-end power at the expense of torque, so on.
The same tuning that a performance enthusiast likes might not
be acceptable by an mainstream driver.
> I'm a total novice at this. Beyond changing a blown gasket and oil
> changes, I haven't worked on cars much. The CAI would be my first
> mod. Real gains in performance or just wishful thinking?
I suspect much closer to the latter.
Dana
Lanny Chambers - 16 Jun 2004 18:32 GMT
> > Performance chips are another mystery. This is software to control
> > timing, right? It flat out says the after market crowd is better at
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> the best combination of reliability, economy, driveability,
> performance and emissions compliance.
Also gasoline of variable quality, a wide range of elevation and
temperature, and normal engine production tolerances. If manufacturers
programmed their ECUs too close to the edge (i.e., for ideal
conditions), warranty claims would eat them alive. As for aftermarket
foam or gauze filters, every one of them passes more dirt than a stock
paper cartridge; on a stock Miata, airflow restriction is not an issue,
so they offer no benefit at all.
Bear in mind that most aftermarket power claims are valid only in their
dreams. Dunno about the 3, but there's essentially nothing to be gained
from chipping a stock Miata engine, and the best CAI for NA models dynos
at a 5 hp increase. A CAI's job is to prevent *loss* of power in hot
weather, not to change the torque curve.
If you adopt the attitude that everything advertised in a riceboy
magazine or listed on eBay is a piece of crap and a waste of money, you
won't go too far wrong.

Signature
Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
'94C
the alignment page:
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html
Grant Edwards - 16 Jun 2004 18:55 GMT
> If you adopt the attitude that everything advertised in a riceboy
> magazine or listed on eBay is a piece of crap and a waste of money, you
> won't go too far wrong.
Whew! I was afraid you were going to say that stuff advertised
on late-night infomercials was crap.
http://www.autostreak.com/tornado/
http://www.tornadoair.com/

Signature
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I'm having
at a tax-deductible
visi.com experience! I need an
energy crunch!!
Lanny Chambers - 16 Jun 2004 22:47 GMT
> Whew! I was afraid you were going to say that stuff advertised
> on late-night infomercials was crap.
>
> http://www.autostreak.com/tornado/
> http://www.tornadoair.com/
No need, Grant. Anyone who owns a Miata is smart enough that he already
knows that. :-)

Signature
Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
'94C
the alignment page:
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html
Leon van Dommelen - 17 Jun 2004 00:05 GMT
>> If you adopt the attitude that everything advertised in a riceboy
>> magazine or listed on eBay is a piece of crap and a waste of money, you
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>http://www.autostreak.com/tornado/
Yes, this device is certainly not junk. If you look at the stock
Chevy 454 data, at 2,000 rpm, torque increases from 402 to 414,
but horsepower stays exactly the same. Physics says it cannot
be done, but this device does it!!
If you are one of those nasty cynical persons, and wonder whether
physics really can proved to be wrong by a putting a plastic
obstruction in the intake of a car, you are out of luck. This
was measured by an *INDEPENDENT* testing lab!!
For a mere $53.95, you can show three centuries of basic physics
dead wrong! It is a bargain!!
Leon

Signature
Leon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
To reply to me, the word Miata must be in the subject.
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)
Grant Edwards - 17 Jun 2004 00:25 GMT
>>Whew! I was afraid you were going to say that stuff advertised
>>on late-night infomercials was crap.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> but horsepower stays exactly the same. Physics says it cannot
> be done, but this device does it!!
And with mileage increases up to 28%!
> If you are one of those nasty cynical persons, and wonder whether
> physics really can proved to be wrong by a putting a plastic
> obstruction in the intake of a car, you are out of luck. This
> was measured by an *INDEPENDENT* testing lab!!
But it's not plastic, it's a nice shiney _metal_ obstruction.
I'm sure that's the secret: it probably has something to do
with ions. Scam artists _love_ ions.
> For a mere $53.95, you can show three centuries of basic physics
> dead wrong! It is a bargain!!
It certainly is -- what's the Nobel prize these days? About a
million USD isn't it?

Signature
Grant Edwards grante Yow! NOW do I get to blow
at out the CANLDES??
visi.com
Leon van Dommelen - 18 Jun 2004 00:12 GMT
>>>Whew! I was afraid you were going to say that stuff advertised
>>>on late-night infomercials was crap.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>It certainly is -- what's the Nobel prize these days? About a
>million USD isn't it?
Absolutely. You could buy this thing, get the Nobel price,
and come out ahead $999,946.05 and, as you say, a nice shiny
piece of metal that can be used as an ornament on the hood of
your Miata if you engrave it "New ton is Old not".
Leon

Signature
Leon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
To reply to me, the word Miata must be in the subject.
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)
Randy Maheux - 16 Jun 2004 19:30 GMT
> Why would a manufacturer skip something like a cold air intake and
> miss out on the (AEM claims) of 8 or 9 HP and a good serving of torque?
> For $200.00, this simple mod can't be beat.
A manufacturer aims the car at the "lowest common denominator" buyer, which
means keeping it simple. Also, they want to keep warranty work at a
minimum, and, over thousands of cars, boosting performance will have an
effect on parts life that they don't want to deal with.
> Performance chips are another mystery. This is software to control
> timing, right? It flat out says the after market crowd is better at
> tuning a car than the manufacturer. Aftermarket claims zero drawbacks
> to the chip (cels or wear and tear). So why didn't the manufacturer
> do it right themselves?
I've done cat-backs, CAI and other bolt on mods and found them not worth the
money (unless all you want is a different look or sound). Increased HP
claims are measured at the peak, not the RPM range where most of us drive.
An 8 HP gain at 5500 RPM might only be 3-4 HP at 4000 RPM - hardly
noticable.
> I'm a total novice at this. Beyond changing a blown gasket and oil
> changes, I haven't worked on cars much. The CAI would be my first
> mod. Real gains in performance or just wishful thinking?
My $.02 is that a supercharger or turbo is the only way to make a noticable
improvement in HP. Fooling with CAIs, exahust, cam timing and chips can be
fun, but ends up costing a lot with a minimal gain.
> It'd be for a Mazda3 by the way. (No software yet for the timing
> that I know of, but I'm still curious about the chips)
Leon van Dommelen - 17 Jun 2004 00:39 GMT
>Why would a manufacturer skip something like a cold air intake and
>miss out on the (AEM claims) of 8 or 9 HP and a good serving of torque?
Send this AEM guy right over with the detailed evidence for his
claims. :)
Actually, manufacturers *deliberately* preheat the intake air to
be able to optimize the engine for a single intake air temperature.
The preheating is done by adding selected amounts of warm air
from the exhaust area to the other intake air.
The following quote is from the 5th edition of Bosch "Automotive
Handbook" as published by SAE:
"In addition to filtering the air, passenger-car air filters preheat
the intake air and regulate its temperature, as well as dampening
the air intake noise. Intake-air temperature regulation is
important for the operation of the vehicle and for the composition
of the exhaust gases. [...] The constant regulated air intake
temperature improves engine performance and fuel consumption, and
decreases the percentage of pollutants in the exhaust gases as a
result of better fuel management and distribution of the air-fuel
mixture."
Of course, this does not need to mean that a specific *single*
measure such as maximum hp might not improve a bit by piping
in cold air where the engine expects warmer, in specific
conditions, (eg, when the car is sitting with the hood up
in a dyno testing stand, thwarting the intake's temperature
management by letting the hotter exhaust air escape.)
I just want to see the AEM guy to establish how the measurements
were done, and how repeatable they were (if they *were* repeated.)
>For $200.00, this simple mod can't be beat.
I will beat the mod for $200. Just send $200 and the mod right
over and I will have my hammer ready. ;)
>Performance chips are another mystery. This is software to control
>timing, right? It flat out says the after market crowd is better at
>tuning a car than the manufacturer. Aftermarket claims zero drawbacks
>to the chip (cels or wear and tear). So why didn't the manufacturer
>do it right themselves?
Maybe, just maybe, they think they *are* doing it right?? Modern
cars are very highly optimized, so any aftermarket stuff is likely
to make things worse, even if they try to optimize other items
(eg power at the expense of pollution.) This is especially likely
if the chip is not specific to the particular car model and model
year it is used on. For example, chip mods on Miatas are well
accepted to be worthless.
I have an aftermarket ECU on my Miata, but only since I also
have an aftermarket supercharger on it. So OEM optimization
is nonexistent.
Leon

Signature
Leon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
To reply to me, the word Miata must be in the subject.
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)
Lanny Chambers - 17 Jun 2004 04:48 GMT
> >For $200.00, this simple mod can't be beat.
>
> I will beat the mod for $200. Just send $200 and the mod right
> over and I will have my hammer ready.
Gee, I wish I'd written that.
This one goes into the Archives, just to refute anyone who says our
resident rocket scientist doesn't have an overt sense of humor.

Signature
Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
'94C
the alignment page:
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html
Natman - 17 Jun 2004 17:37 GMT
>Why would a manufacturer skip something like a cold air intake and
>miss out on the (AEM claims) of 8 or 9 HP and a good serving of torque?
>For $200.00, this simple mod can't be beat.
Because most buyers don't find intake howl appealing.
I don't know about this specific unit, but many "cold" air intakes
take their air in near the exhaust manifold's heat, while eliminating
the plumbing the factory put in to take in the air from somewhere
farther away where the air is cooler.
>Performance chips are another mystery. This is software to control
>timing, right? It flat out says the after market crowd is better at
>tuning a car than the manufacturer. Aftermarket claims zero drawbacks
>to the chip (cels or wear and tear). So why didn't the manufacturer
>do it right themselves?
Because manufacturers have to meet emissions standards, don't want to
require premium gas and have to warranty the car.
>I'm a total novice at this. Beyond changing a blown gasket and oil
>changes, I haven't worked on cars much. The CAI would be my first
>mod. Real gains in performance or just wishful thinking?
>
>It'd be for a Mazda3 by the way. (No software yet for the timing
>that I know of, but I'm still curious about the chips)
Dana Myers - 18 Jun 2004 21:10 GMT
> Why would a manufacturer skip something like a cold air intake and
> miss out on the (AEM claims) of 8 or 9 HP and a good serving of torque?
> For $200.00, this simple mod can't be beat.
I dunno. This Wednesday I went to Infineon Raceway for the
Wednesday night drags in my (currently) bone-stock 2002 SE.
My pal Jeff took his '96 Civic EX with coffee-can cat-back
and CAI. Neither one of us is very experienced at drag racing
and our times consistently improved, but my times were
generally 1.5 seconds faster than his.
Dana
Grant Edwards - 18 Jun 2004 21:26 GMT
> I dunno. This Wednesday I went to Infineon Raceway for the
> Wednesday night drags in my (currently) bone-stock 2002 SE.
> My pal Jeff took his '96 Civic EX with coffee-can cat-back
> and CAI. Neither one of us is very experienced at drag racing
> and our times consistently improved, but my times were
> generally 1.5 seconds faster than his.
Just wait 'till he puts on "Type R" and "V-Tec" stickers and
completely shuts you down!

Signature
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I left my WALLET in
at the BATHROOM!!
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Dana Myers - 18 Jun 2004 22:18 GMT
>>I dunno. This Wednesday I went to Infineon Raceway for the
>>Wednesday night drags in my (currently) bone-stock 2002 SE.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Just wait 'till he puts on "Type R" and "V-Tec" stickers and
> completely shuts you down!
LOL!! I'm surprised he still hangs out with me after the
hassle I've given him along those lines...