Engine swap

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K-tron - 13 Sep 2004 02:24 GMT

Hey all, just got to thinking 'bout puting some decent power in a
Miata. Like a 7+ litre, oops sorry 427 cid side oiler, in the little
beastie, but I need to know the rough dimensions of the engine bay
(mainly the depth from hood-line down to the bottom of the control
arms) and the width of the rear axle inside of rotor to rotor.

Any help is welcome.

If I go thru with this I WILL post weekly updates on progress.

TIA

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Lanny Chambers - 13 Sep 2004 04:22 GMT

> Hey all, just got to thinking 'bout puting some decent power in a
> Miata. Like a 7+ litre, oops sorry 427 cid side oile

Not while retaining the front suspension--there's not nearly enough
width between the spring towers. The largest that will fit without
extensive butchery is a Ford 302, a fairly common conversion. There are
even kits to smooth over the bumpy parts of the swap. IIRC, there's a
mailing list or forum where 5-liter Miata owners hang out.

Signature

Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
'94C
the alignment page:
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html

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K-tron - 14 Sep 2004 01:20 GMT

>> Hey all, just got to thinking 'bout puting some decent power in a
>> Miata. Like a 7+ litre, oops sorry 427 cid side oile
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>even kits to smooth over the bumpy parts of the swap. IIRC, there's a
>mailing list or forum where 5-liter Miata owners hang out.

Mmm, the 427 isn't THAT much wider than the 302. 'Sides butchering the
insides of shock towers to gain another inch or so isn't a problem
(have welder, will cook. You may be thinking of the 429/460 which is
MUCH wider than the 302. The beauty of the 427 is several-fold:

1) It doesn't take much effort to get an extremly reliable 425 Hp@
6000 and 480ft/lb@3700.

2) You can spin the big motor to 10 grand on a regular basis and not
have it self destruct (The chev 427 tends to go south VERY quickly
when pushed past 7000).

3) Nostalgia/novelty value, When was the last time you saw a 427 in a
car?

4) Remember the Shelby Cobra? ... Nuff said.

A Miata doing 'bout 150+Mph in 3rd with a gear to go and 60Mph in a
tad less than 4 seconds. Sound enticing?

Just some VERY random musings ......

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L Bader - 14 Sep 2004 03:46 GMT

>3) Nostalgia/novelty value, When was the last time you saw a 427 in a
>car?
>
>4) Remember the Shelby Cobra? ... Nuff said.

Problem is the Miata's track and wheelbase are shorter than the
Cobra's. -- There are plenty of other options to persue to get nearly
the same power, without chopping the car and damaging its integrity.
(Much less the suspension/weight-distribution nightmares...)

- L

'97 STO, "Chouki"

// Change TEJAS to TX to reply via eMail //

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jchase - 14 Sep 2004 13:39 GMT

>>3) Nostalgia/novelty value, When was the last time you saw a 427 in a
>>car?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> - L

This has been done during the 60's (with some input from Shelby)- a
little beastie called the Sunbeam Tiger, combining a Sunbeam Alpine with
a Ford 302 (eventually killed when Chrysler became the parent of
Sunbeam/Rootes Group). Lots of comments about rear wheelspin, and nasty
handling characteristics in the damp. What I've read about the Monster
Miatas is better, but I still think you'd be better off keeping the
Miata and buying a used 302 Mustang for straight-line thrills.

Joe
Silver '99 (Stock)

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Randy Maheux - 14 Sep 2004 15:01 GMT

Check out: http://www.v8miata.com/Default.asp

They will put a Ford V8 into your Miata or supply a DIY kit.

Randy

> Hey all, just got to thinking 'bout puting some decent power in a
> Miata. Like a 7+ litre, oops sorry 427 cid side oiler, in the little
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> TIA

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K-tron - 14 Sep 2004 22:47 GMT

>Check out: http://www.v8miata.com/Default.asp
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>>
>> TIA

Ok, I visited the above site. YAWN !! all small block conversions, but
I left an email question anyway. My thoughts are a pre-smog (65-68)
,8V 427 that is TOTALLY stock. Stock as in y'all could buy one in a
crate from your local Ford parts counter.

BTW the HP/Torque specs I mentioned are the ' published ' figures.
The 425 HP is more like 475-500 and the 480 FT/LBS are closer to 520 .

Twitchy handling in the wet is not a problem, same with excess
wheel-spin. Butchering the inside of the car not a concern,keeping the
exterior basically the same is. Think anyone would notice the
streetable 40 series rubber or wheel tubs in the back ? Weight
distribution not much prob, fuel cell underneath and in trunk plus a
9 inch rear end isn't exactly light either. I figure about 60/40
balance at worst.

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Lanny Chambers - 14 Sep 2004 23:13 GMT

> Ok, I visited the above site. YAWN !! all small block conversions, but
> I left an email question anyway. My thoughts are a pre-smog (65-68)
> ,8V 427 that is TOTALLY stock. Stock as in y'all could buy one in a
> crate from your local Ford parts counter.

I understand and respect that you're more interested in the uniqueness
of a 427 than in actually going as fast as possible in a straight line
(forget about handling). I'd guess you'll be breaking new ground,
building what's essentially a Miata funny car.

Aside from the 302 Ford, all the other V8 conversions I know of are
Rover (think 215 Olds aluminum) from the UK, and an outfit in Oz that
uses a 4-liter Lexus engine. I doubt either of those will keep up with
an FM turbo on a stock Miata engine. Given the traction limitations, I
wonder if a 427 would be any faster than, say, a good 351 with a Lysholm
blower. Still, I realize that isn't the point. It ain't Fred Lorenzen's
427.

Signature

Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
'94C
the alignment page:
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html

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Leon van Dommelen - 15 Sep 2004 02:12 GMT

>> Ok, I visited the above site. YAWN !! all small block conversions, but
>> I left an email question anyway. My thoughts are a pre-smog (65-68)
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>wonder if a 427 would be any faster than, say, a good 351 with a Lysholm
>blower.

Suppose you cover both the tires and the road with contact glue and
let it dry. Then take off. That would be very fast.

Leon

> Still, I realize that isn't the point. It ain't Fred Lorenzen's
>427.

Signature

Leon van Dommelen ;) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata ,)
rammm@dommelen.net http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)

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Lanny Chambers - 15 Sep 2004 05:10 GMT

> Suppose you cover both the tires and the road with contact glue and
> let it dry. Then take off. That would be very fast.

Well, it would be OVER very fast. If you used PerfectGlue(tm), all you'd
get would be a wheelie and an upside-down Miata with a severely-deranged
rear suspension.

I just love these thought experiments, Leon.

Signature

Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
'94C
the alignment page:
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html

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