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Car Forum / Mazda / Mazda Miata / November 2004M2 top/leaking help!!!
OK I've about had it!! I have a 2000 Miata and any time there is a hard rain overnight, I get in the car in the morning to find a gallon or more water standing in the driver's side footwell. Some have suggested cleaning the "drains" but I can't figure exactly what I'm supposed to be doing with this... is there a drawing or some instructions somewhere to talk about cleaning the drains specifically or do I need to just go buy a shop manual? I have the "aquarium brushes" but they won't possibly fit into the slot at the bottom rear edge of the front fender where I presume the "drain" is... Looks like the rain is coming in through the joint at the top of the windshield header, at the corner where the door/window edge mates with the top and window header. I can see light through this spot when the top is latched. Tightening the latch doesn't help, seems it's probably just an issue with the design of the top and the flexibility of the window frame that allows this place to leak. Looks like there's a "gutter" there that I presume is trying to duct water away from the interior. Problem is I have to park my car on a hill and water dripping in here would miss this "gutter" and I'm sure that's how it's getting into the car. So... #1 will cleaning the "drains" help, and if so, how do I do that... where are they, how do I get to them? #2 can I get this corner of the top to seal so it doesn't let water in anyway? Thanks! -josh This may sound bit simplistic, but I've made the same mistake, albeit with a 93'. Are you sure you have the top closed tightly at the front? I've sworn that the thing was seated properly only to realize that it wasn't. and I've had to adjust the latches a few times to keep them at peak tension. Also, my car leaks just a smdge from the joint at the middle of the window during a heavy rain if I don't consciously pull the two pieces of rubber together. However, this is probably age related. JJ >OK I've about had it!! > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >Thanks! >-josh If you see light thru the corner, Something is not right! It's possible that you have a bad latch or alignment tip on the latch. The "gutter" you refer to does not fit correctly, as you said. You may be able to improve things by pushing out on the upper inside part of the door seal at the inside of the "gutter.The edge of the seal will catch on the edge of the plastic window post trim, and tend to help the "gutter" stay further out. > OK I've about had it!! > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Thanks! > -josh >If you see light thru the corner, Something is not right! >It's possible that you have a bad latch or alignment tip on the latch. Or that the window is not adjusted correctly. The enthusiast manual has instructions, but I do not know whether they apply to the M2. Leon > The >"gutter" you refer to does not fit correctly, as you said. You may be able [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 10/29/2004  SignatureLeon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .) rammm@dommelen.net http://www.dommelen.net/miata EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen) I think (that might be a mistake!) that the Gutter refers to the rubber catch cup at the top of the windshield frame. It is there to catch a leak, or a sudden drain when the door is opened. Usually, it sets just a bit too far in, and the water runs down to the floor, your pants, or whatever else is in the way. If you push it out, so that the edge catches on the plastic trim, it seems to work much better. >>If you see light thru the corner, Something is not right! >>It's possible that you have a bad latch or alignment tip on the latch. [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >>Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 10/29/2004 > I think (that might be a mistake!) that the Gutter refers to the rubber > catch cup at the top of the windshield frame. It is there to catch a leak, > or a sudden drain when the door is opened. Usually, it sets just a bit too > far in, and the water runs down to the floor, your pants, or whatever else > is in the way. If you push it out, so that the edge catches on the plastic > trim, it seems to work much better. That's what I meant by "gutter"... I will try pushing it out. The latch is pretty tight, but I'll see if I can tighten it a bit... problem is the latch does not "catch" so if it gets much tighter, it springs back open. This is the third set of latches in 4 years, I'm tired of replacing them. With the latches released, does front edge of the top line up with the windshield side to side, and front to back, or is it off a bit. Fixing this usually involves loosening the screws where the top bolts to the body. . Also, the top side seals can be adjused by moving the metal tracks. There are screws under the rubber side seals. Another possible leak is due to a split or chunk missing from the door window seal at the front top of the glass. Might the top side seals above the door shrunk, due to outside parking in the sun? >> I think (that might be a mistake!) that the Gutter refers to the rubber >> catch cup at the top of the windshield frame. It is there to catch a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > springs back open. This is the third set of latches in 4 years, I'm tired > of replacing them. > With the latches released, does front edge of the top line up with the > windshield side to side, and front to back, or is it off a bit. > Fixing this usually involves loosening the screws where the top bolts to the > body. It's off... whole top front edge is shifted to the left a little bit (like 1/4" or so) before latched. It pulls it in "straight" when it latches. Funny, it's been this way since it was brand new and I've had it into the dealer (when the full warranty was still in effect) no less than FOUR TIMES to fix top leaking problems and they never fixed this. > . > Also, the top side seals can be adjused by moving the metal tracks. There > are screws under the rubber side seals. I'll look for that. > Another possible leak is due to a split or chunk missing from the door > window seal at the front top of the glass. > > Might the top side seals above the door shrunk, due to outside parking in > the sun? You're talking about the top edge of the window seal, right? rubber piece, runs around the top edge of the door window? Yeah, there's a chunk missing from there and it's split. Again, this is about the fourth set of these window rubbers that the car has had and this part splits/chunk comes off within a month of replacing it with a new part. Warranty ran out, I quit taking it back for that problem. Seems like in 10+ years of building basically the same car, Mazda would figure out how to make door window seals last more than a couple of months, and how to make top latches last more than a couple of months, etc. Yes of course the car's parked outside in hot weather... I'm in Austin, TX! It's hot from March to November and the car sits parked outside while I'm at work 200 days a year. > Seems like in 10+ years of building basically the same car, Mazda would > figure out how to make door window seals last more than a couple of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > TX! It's hot from March to November and the car sits parked outside > while I'm at work 200 days a year. Something else is wrong. I am also in Austin and never had to replace the latches or the rubber seals in 5 years of driving, usually parking it outside in the sun. I have been driving a borrowed 1991 model that has been an Austin sun sitter for over 10 years and it still has it's original rubber seal and latches, though the roof is new. Which dealership did you take it to? The difference between Mazda North and Mazda South is amazing. If it were my car, I would take it to John Long. If he can't fix it, I doubt if anyone can, and his rates are very good. Here is his website if you have not been there before. http://www.jlongautoworks.com/home.html Pat > Something else is wrong. I am also in Austin and never had to replace > the latches or the rubber seals in 5 years of driving, usually parking > it outside in the sun. Well it's too late now... I need to find my extended warranty paperwork and see if this is covered. 36kmi warranty is out and I'm not about to cough up the hundreds of dollars it takes to replace the top latches, etc. But I am about ready to remove them and see if there's a way to repair them. This was from Roger Beasley Mazda "North" (back then, it wasn't really called "Mazda North") on Burnet Rd. I was never happy with their service dept, but #1 I live in Cedar Park so getting the car to Mazda South is major problem, and #2 the one time I did try and get some work done at Mazda South they said I'd have to leave the car overnight (for an alignment!!!) and it turned out to just be too much trouble. >> Something else is wrong. I am also in Austin and never had to replace >> the latches or the rubber seals in 5 years of driving, usually parking [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > etc. But I am about ready to remove them and see if there's a way to > repair them. I can understand that, especially after being set back several thousand dollars by a run-in with a deer, as I am sure that everyone on this board is aware of by now. Still it could have been worse. This lady hit a moose, (not in a miata, and obviously not in Texas), and managed to survive with only minor injuries, which is incredible when you see the pictures. http://home.austin.rr.com/sheltonservices/images/moose.html Pat So... The driver's side latch is tightened as tight as it will get. I can still see a "speck" of light through. There's also mechanical slack in the latch (and I do believe this is the third one the car has had on the driver's side). I guess I need to figure out how to adjust the alignment of the top. Is there a good manual anyone can recommend for this? I haven't investigated the Haynes manual... is it worthwhile? While on the topic, anyone know how to get 3M super weatherstrip adhesive OFF of the inside surface of the top material (don't ask...)? I know MEK will cut it, but don't know if that'll damage the top. Tried "goo gone" but it's slow-going. Thanks for all the help... I have a whole weekend ahead with no rain, maybe I can get it straightened out. I don't think that the Hayes manual is useful for your problem. The 1/4" off sounds a little bit much. My top moves just enough to feel when you latch the latches. The leak -- and the "see light" -- where exactly is this (Between the top and the Windshield frame, or the door to front door post seal, or the window to top seal? The top front side seal may need pulling foreward, or the top window seal adjusted outwards. It sounds like the top is not aligned exactly with the windshield frame, and the latch is a problem. There was a large enough batch of bad latches that Mazda changed the design on the recent models. I took a failed latch apart that was just out of warrenty, (It was a replacement latch, supplied with a new top, one year only) The latch had not been made properly, with a small hole improperly drilled. This hole held the pin for the moving part that latches and unlatches when you press on it. Unfortunately, there is no way to get the repair parts. > So... > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Thanks for all the help... I have a whole weekend ahead with no rain, > maybe I can get it straightened out. > The leak -- and the "see light" -- where exactly is this (Between the top > and the Windshield frame, or the door to front door post seal, or the window > to top seal? It's very difficult to tell exactly where this is, since you can't see the "leak" with the door open. It appears that it's between the top and the windshield header, or possibly at the junction of all three: windshield header, top and window frame. But it's a very small pinhole now. It might be solvable. >So... > >The driver's side latch is tightened as tight as it will get. I can still >see a "speck" of light through. There's also mechanical slack in the latch >(and I do believe this is the third one the car has had on the driver's side). Rubber strips falling apart after a few months. Metal parts constantly failing. It all sounds very strange to me; I have never heard of this. Is it possible some neighborhood kids are playing jokes on you? Where is the thing parked? Any animals around? Leon P.S. I put an M2 top on my '96 and I have had no problems in Florida. I had no problems with my M1 top either. >I guess I need to figure out how to adjust the alignment of the top. Is >there a good manual anyone can recommend for this? I haven't investigated [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Thanks for all the help... I have a whole weekend ahead with no rain, maybe >I can get it straightened out. SignatureLeon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .) rammm@dommelen.net http://www.dommelen.net/miata EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen) > Rubber strips falling apart after a few months. Metal parts > constantly failing. It all sounds very strange to me; I have > never heard of this. Is it possible some neighborhood kids are > playing jokes on you? Where is the thing parked? Any animals > around? Car is either parked in the parking lot at my office, or in my driveway. First year or two I used a car cover almost exclusively while the car was parked for any length of time (then after that I needed the trunk space too badly to carry it). No kids playing pranks on it I'm sure... It's just deterioration. The thing that really irks me is that the dealer was of so little help, as many times in the first three years as I had it in for top/latch/leaking problems even having to have a new top due to the problem from the TSB regarding the "pinch" (and FWIW they didn't fix the root problem, I guess I was in before the TSB?). You'd think if a customer comes in every few months with bad latches, window rubbers, ill-fitting seals, holes worn in the top, leaks, etc., you'd investigate whether the top was on straight or whether things were lining up properly... I just left the dealer every time assuming it was just par for the course with a convertible. And now... the danged seat fabric is wearing out, holes appearing in the driver's seat! All in just 53K miles! makes me wonder whether I bought the wrong car... I love _nearly_ everything about this Miata. Actually there is a TSB about the seat wearing out. The same thing happened to the left back side of the driver's seat. I had the dealer replace the seat back cover. I don't remember the TSB number but it is on miata.net. > And now... the danged seat fabric is wearing out, holes appearing in the > driver's seat! All in just 53K miles! makes me wonder whether I bought the > wrong car... I love _nearly_ everything about this Miata. > Actually there is a TSB about the seat wearing out. The same thing happened > to the left back side of the driver's seat. Looks like that's for leather seats... and 2001+. This is cloth seat wearing out way prematurely. Also I see there's a TSB 09-009/03 for the soft top latches, but only covers 2001-2003 cars (mine's a 2000 but has the same problem). And my car has the 09-003/03 "soft top split" problem, already had the top replaced once due to the same problem but aparently before the TSB was out, as they didn't fix the root cause. Knowing they didn't fix the root cause and not knowing exactly what the proper fix was, I glued in a reinforcement patch on that part of the top when I saw the new top was headed down the same track and I figured the problem would not get bad enough to have it fixed before the warranty would run out. Thus my query about how to get 3M super weather strip adhesive off the inside of the top, because with the TSB, I figure if I can remove the adhesive, they will replace the top and fix it right under the TSB. Dang I need to go dig up my extended warranty paperwork, see if it covers the seat fabric and the top. If so, I'm taking it in. One more thing... the spot where I can see light when my top is latched is between the front edge of the top and the windshield header, not the door seal. |
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