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Car Forum / Mazda / Mazda Miata / April 2005

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Check engine light (long)

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CELbegone - 03 Dec 2004 16:21 GMT
This is about Mazda rather than the Miata.  I own two Mazdas, a Mazda6
and a Mazda3.  Hindsite tells me I should have varied brand names a
bit.  But this is how things turned out.  The popular mazdaXforums
websites are more geared towards fandom than actual technical issues.
So this is the best place I could think to ask a few questions.  I
hope you don't mind the semiOT post.

My Mazda6 is the 6-cyl 5-speed automatic version.  It's had three
CEL lights in the past year (the last one was four or five
months ago).  The dealership took the car the first two times and
gave me a rental.  They reset the CEL and did a lot of ignition
work the first time (new plugs, somethind else - I can dig up
the WO if it's of value).  The second time, they reset the CEL
and gave a story about firmware.  The third time, they didn't
take the car at all and said the CEL would go away.  It did.
The first two CELs were misfires.  The third probably was too,
although the code was never read.

My Mazda3 is the 2.3L 5-speed manual version.  It had a CEL go off
last night.  I've put about 20 miles on it since.  I haven't called
the dealer yet.

Between two Mazda cars, I've had 4 CEL lights.  Alright, now the
questions.

Independently of Mazda's bullshit, what's going on?

Is it some quality issue with Mazda?  Maybe the engines
just aren't put together well.  The 6-cylinder is the American
designed and built variety (ie Ford).  I'm not sure about the
4-cylinder.  Or is the computer too sensitive?  Perhaps misfires
aren't as uncommon as people think.  Could it be that it just
reports everything?

Are my driving habits to blame?  I did hit the rev limiter on
the Mazda6.  The tiptronics absolutely sucks on it.  Sometimes
it would delay my shift and continue in a lower gear until
the RPM went above redline for a second.  I experimented and
stopped using tiptronics over about a month.  I've never hit
the rev limiter on the Mazda3.  I rarely shift aggressively.
I did so three days ago merging with interstate traffic.
Crazy holiday shopping patterns led to the low speed lane
doing 5 mph and the next lane over doing 40, so the car
had to scoot.

Will I do damage driving the car now that it has a CEL warning?  
It's a bad time to bring it into the dealership.  I'm too dependent
on the car right now and can't spare the time from work.

Can I actually detect a misfire?  What symptoms do they show?
(Besides a CEL obviously :-)  

The Mazda6's strings of misfires stopped - or at least the
misfires have disappeared for the last four months.  Could the
misfire be related to engine break-in?  It has 15,000 miles
on it.  (The Mazda3 has 5000 miles)

I'm skeptical of the dealership's claims right now.  I work
in IT and I hear bullshit stories all the time to soothe the
client while not really addressing the issue.  Unfortunately,
I don't know nearly as much about cars as I do about computers.
I've lurked here forever and have seen some excellent advice
and help offered.  If you want to send some help my way, I'd
appreciate it.

Thanks.
Lanny Chambers - 03 Dec 2004 23:00 GMT
> Between two Mazda cars, I've had 4 CEL lights.  Alright, now the
> questions.
>
> Independently of Mazda's bullshit, what's going on?

I'd try a different Mazda dealer. Some are very good, some are
awful--just like any other brand. If a dealer told me to ignore a CEL,
I'd get it in writing, in case there's damage later, for which I'd
doubtless be blamed otherwise.

I don't have an OBDII car, so I can't tell you from experience if they
throw a lot of bogus codes, maybe they do. A misfire is a cylinder's
charge not burning when the sparkplug is supposed to fire; it feels like
a slight stutter in power delivery, perhaps not palpable with an
automatic. It won't hurt the engine, but may shorten the life of the
catalytic converter by sending unburned gas down the pipe. A couple of
instances is probably trivial.

Bouncing off the rev limiter won't hurt anything--that's why it's there.
As for the transmission, just put it in Drive and forget the "manual"
feature--I've driven a 6, and the "manual" thingie is indeed useless, as
you say. I've driven a manual 3, too. Both are really very nice cars.
Don't get too bummed, you'll sort them out.

Signature

Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
'94C
the alignment page:
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html

BernMan - 04 Dec 2004 11:35 GMT
May not be the problem but it happened to me.  The CEL was lit turned out to
be I did not have the gas cap tight.  There is some kind of sensor in the
tank, don't know how it works, detects pressure or vacuume of some sort
designed to prevent gas fumes from escaping????

Someone told me this and I thought,  yea right????I checked and the cap was
loose, no light since.

> This is about Mazda rather than the Miata.  I own two Mazdas, a Mazda6
> and a Mazda3.  Hindsite tells me I should have varied brand names a
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
>
> Thanks.
Phil - 04 Dec 2004 21:12 GMT
I've had an intermittent CEL problem with my '92 Mazda Protege for
about 2 years. I've had it in the shop 3 times but it behaves
everytime I take it in. No coding shows up in the diagnostics so they
say they can't fix it. The light usually comes on as soon as the
engine temp reaches max then comes and goes corresponding with a
slight surge or lag as it comes on and off. Once it's good and warm
the problem seems to go but the idle is sometimes rough and surges. On
occasion the car stalls at lights and sometimes just won't start
unless you put your foot to floor. I found I had a gas tank leak and
thought it might be a similar problem to the loose gas cap but I
replaced the tank but not the problem.

Phil

> May not be the problem but it happened to me.  The CEL was lit turned out to
> be I did not have the gas cap tight.  There is some kind of sensor in the
[quoted text clipped - 70 lines]
> >
> > Thanks.
hab21 - 13 Jan 2005 23:53 GMT
I have a 2000 Miata.  The engine began occasionally not starting.  When I
get it to the mechanic it starts.  Then the check engine light comes on.
I have replaced plugs, wires, battery, etc.  It still happens ocasionally.
It is also throwing gas through and has damaged the converter.  

Anyone have any ideas??
Larry Gadbois - 14 Jan 2005 20:26 GMT
It could be the classic Miata problem. The ignition wires go bad. The
coilpack gets damaged because of the arcing inside the wires. The bad coil
pack causes mis-firing on two of the cylinders. The raw gas causes damage to
the 02 sensor. The damaged 02 sensor leads to a damaged converter. The whole
thing leads to a damage wallet.....    ;-)

>I have a 2000 Miata.  The engine began occasionally not starting.  When I
> get it to the mechanic it starts.  Then the check engine light comes on.
> I have replaced plugs, wires, battery, etc.  It still happens ocasionally.
> It is also throwing gas through and has damaged the converter.
>
> Anyone have any ideas??
Lanny Chambers - 15 Jan 2005 02:31 GMT
> It could be the classic Miata problem. The ignition wires go bad. The
> coilpack gets damaged because of the arcing inside the wires.

Another common cause of coil failure is loose or corroded ground
terminals. The typical early symptom is a tach needle that
intermittantly reads significantly too low. It never hurts to clean the
ground terminals every few years.

Signature

Lanny Chambers, St. Louis, USA
'94C
the alignment page:
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html

seasalt726@netscape.net - 15 Jan 2005 15:22 GMT
> I have a 2000 Miata.  The engine began occasionally not starting.  When I
> get it to the mechanic it starts.  ....
>  It is also throwing gas through and has damaged the converter.

The 99-00 miatas, from what I've heard, had problems with intermittent
ignition coils. It also seems to me that your mechanic should have been
able to query the OBD-II port on the engine computer to see what kind
of error report is stored.
Brett England - 18 Jan 2005 00:47 GMT
For my 2000 Miata the cause was a faulty cam rotation sensor.

On 1/13/05 6:53 PM, in article
3582f9afb63a733d183686519fd308d4@localhost.talkaboutautos.com, "hab21"
<hab_21@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I have a 2000 Miata.  The engine began occasionally not starting.  When I
> get it to the mechanic it starts.  Then the check engine light comes on.
> I have replaced plugs, wires, battery, etc.  It still happens ocasionally.
> It is also throwing gas through and has damaged the converter.
>
> Anyone have any ideas??
deathcube23 - 25 Jan 2005 22:03 GMT
I just started getting the CEL on my Mazda 6s.  I took it to the dealership
(just had my 7,500 mile service done a week earlier) and they said they had
12 other cars in the shop for the same problem.  They said that the Mazda
3's had a faulty gas cap that was causing the CEL and they have begun
replaceing them.  They said the Mazda 6's had a software issue with
emissions.  Sounds like they are still trying to get a handle on that one.
He assured me that the light was harmless and would have NO negetive
effects on my engine.  I'm leaving my 6 with them and the end of the week
and they will check it out.
deathcube23 - 25 Jan 2005 22:04 GMT
I just started getting the CEL on my Mazda 6s.  I took it to the dealership
(just had my 7,500 mile service done a week earlier) and they said they had
12 other cars in the shop for the same problem.  They said that the Mazda
3's had a faulty gas cap that was causing the CEL and they have begun
replaceing them.  They said the Mazda 6's had a software issue with
emissions.  Sounds like they are still trying to get a handle on that one.
He assured me that the light was harmless and would have NO negetive
effects on my engine.  I'm leaving my 6 with them and the end of the week
and they will check it out.
Leon van Dommelen - 26 Jan 2005 00:45 GMT
>I just started getting the CEL on my Mazda 6s.  I took it to the dealership
>(just had my 7,500 mile service done a week earlier) and they said they had
>12 other cars in the shop for the same problem.  They said that the Mazda
>3's had a faulty gas cap that was causing the CEL and they have begun
>replaceing them.

Now why do I think Ford found a gas cap just as good for half a cent
less?  Half a cent adds up to real money when you do it for 100,000
Mazda 3s!

>  They said the Mazda 6's had a software issue with
>emissions.  Sounds like they are still trying to get a handle on that one.

Not many Americans fluent in Indian languages at Ford?

> He assured me that the light was harmless and would have NO negetive
>effects on my engine.  I'm leaving my 6 with them and the end of the week
>and they will check it out.

Leon

Signature

Leon van Dommelen :)    Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
rammm@dommelen.net            http://www.dommelen.net/miata
                 EXIT THE INTERSTATES       (Jamie Jensen)

The Millers - 17 Apr 2005 01:55 GMT
>>  They said the Mazda 6's had a software issue with
>>emissions.  Sounds like they are still trying to get a handle on that one.
>
> Not many Americans fluent in Indian languages at Ford?

Fluency is not the issue.  It's more like not knowing when....

{Voice of Apu} "We can do it!"  --  means they can do it,

or

{Voice of Apu} "We can do it!"  --  means they have no freakin' clue.

The differences are too subtle for most of us.

My employer offers a course for employees on "respecting cultural diversity"
wherein one of the subjects is, "When 'Yes' means 'No'."  You can't make
this crap up...

Anyway, I came to this thread so late in the game because I swapped out my
Fuel Pressure Regulator today on my '96 and, lucky me, the CEL is on now.  I
followed all the procedures in the manual -- de-pressurized, disconnected
the battery, swapped the FPR, mopped the floor (that's a lot of gas from a
de-pressurized system!), plugged everything back in, re-connected the
battery, re-pressurized and went for a drive.  The other thing that's acting
up is the warning buzzer for the ignition key.  I accidentally unplugged it
instead of the Fuel Pump Relay and after reconnecting it, the buzzer sounds
like Mini Me falling down a ventilation shaft.  Don't know if the two are
related.

The car is driving fine and I did remove and replace the gas cap just in
case, but the light is still on.  Is this one of those "drive X number of
miles and it will go out on its own" deals????

Thanks.
The Millers - 17 Apr 2005 12:21 GMT
> Anyway, I came to this thread so late in the game because I swapped out my
> Fuel Pressure Regulator today on my '96 and, lucky me, the CEL is on now.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Thanks.

Went for a drive last night after posting this.  The CEL did not come on.
Mini Me is able to carry a tune now, also.  I think we're good!
 
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