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Car Forum / Mazda / Mazda Miata / May 2005A couple of questions regarding suspension installation
Ok, so I've been talking for the last couple of years about doing my shocks, and this year I fianlly had the money to do it. I went back and forth on doing it myself, but in the end I decided to do it. So I did the rears with not too much trouble, except that I had to wait for a shock boot to be ordered. I had checked them before hand, and they seemed fine, but the driver's side one was shreaded. So I got it all back together, and it's all good. I didn't get around to the front till today, and it was a miserable time. I had quite a time getting it out, and I'm unsure if I'll be able to get it back in all right. My first question is, I read most everything I could find on miata.net on this, and it seemed to suggest that there was a place to find shock boots for $7. Well, the prices I got were $20 to almost $60. The local dealers were not even sure it could be gotten seprerate from the shock, and they said they'd never had to order one before. I ended up ordering one through NAPA, because they were the cheapest, and it would take less than two weeks to get it (nobody, not even the dealers, stocked it). Well, now I need another, and will probably order two just so I'll have it, but is there a place I can find them for less then $20? Second, the directions I had off the net said to put on the spring compressor while the shock was still on the car, and dismantle it and take it out piece by piece. Sounded easy, but in reality took me most of the afternoon to do. Was there something I might have missed? I'm unsure if I'll be able to reverse the procedure without ruining the shock, the boot, or something else, for all the pulling and prying I had to do. Tonyrama > Ok, so I've been talking for the last couple of years about doing my shocks, > and this year I fianlly had the money to do it. I went back and forth on [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Tonyrama $20.00 is roughly the cheapest I have seen for shock boots, either through Mazda South or Trussville Mazda. Your dealer does not seem to know much about the car, did you talk to a salesperson or a mechanic? I preferred to take the springs off after removing the entire assembly from the car. The rears are extremely easy, the fronts are much less so, as you have learned. Breaking the steering ball joint loose makes things much easier to remove and install for the front shocks, but I was hesitant to do this, so I ended up working the entire assembly in and out by myself. It was a nightmare job, but it would have probably been much easier with a helper to push down on the suspension parts while I worked it into place. If and when I do another shock job, I will go ahead and break the steering ball joint loose. That leaves enough room to work the shock/spring assembly out without too much effort. Finally, make sure you put the plastic shims back in, and then check again. I missed one, but luckily it was on a rear shock. HTH, Pat > Finally, make sure you put the plastic shims back in, and then check > again. I missed one, but luckily it was on a rear shock. > > HTH, > > Pat What's the deal with the plastic shims, anyway? I couldn't see that they were actually doing anything. I was having the same thoughts, and misgivings about the ball joints. I might do it on the other side. I have to wait till Wednesday for new boots to come, so I have time. Tonyrama > What's the deal with the plastic shims, anyway? I couldn't see that they > were actually doing anything. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Tonyrama I agree that it doesn't look like they are doing anything, but I was told that there would be sqeaking if they were not installed. I drove my car for about 3 days with one missing from a rear shock and never heard anything, but went ahead and put it back on anyway. Pat > Second, the directions I had off the net said to put on the spring > compressor while the shock was still on the car, and dismantle it and take > it out piece by piece. Wrong directions. I used these (careful of the line break): http://www.flyinmiata.com/techline/older_archives.asp#This%20is%20my%20ve rsion This is the "Bigger Hammer" method. It involves liberating the upper balljoint assembly from the upright, but NOT separating the balljoint itself (contrary to mass misconception). It requires a hefty hammer and a couple of new cotterpins, but no special tools, and is probably the fastest method and the least amoint of work. Working alone with no lift or air tools, I swapped my shocks in about 4 hours. That included drilling out the mounts for Konis, and taking several breaks indoors (the garage was about 95F). I used a length of rebar as a lever to hold the A-arms down--I sat on it, so both hands were free--but a 2x4 would do as well. The majority of the time and effort went into turning the bolts on the spring compressor. Next time, I would remove all four units and take them to a machine shop to have the springs swapped over. It would save at least an hour, even after the trip. --- Lanny Chambers '94C, St. Louis http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html > Wrong directions. I used these (careful of the line break): http://www.flyinmiata.com/techline/older_archives.asp#This%20is%20my%20version > This is the "Bigger Hammer" method. It involves liberating the upper > balljoint assembly from the upright, but NOT separating the balljoint [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > the springs swapped over. It would save at least an hour, even after the > trip. I stood on it, crouched down, with one hand under the fender and the other through the shock-mount hole. Not fun at all for sure. Thanks for the link Tonyrama >>Second, the directions I had off the net said to put on the spring >>compressor while the shock was still on the car, and dismantle it and take [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > '94C, St. Louis > http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html Sitting on a lever to hold down the A-arm would have saved me a lot of time. I don't know why I didn't think of that. Still, since I was able to install the shocks without taking off the balljoint assembly while balancing on one foot, holding down the A-arm with the other foot and fitting the shocks in by depressing the piston with one hand and fitting it into the upper mount with the other hand, it seems like it would be fairly easy to do using your method of sitting on a lever but without a need to release the ball joint assembly. Depressing the piston and fitting it under the fender and into the upper mount doesn't seem like it would have been that difficult if I had been able to maintain better balance while trying it. Anyway, thanks for the tip, I will remember it next time, whether I take the ball joint assembly off or not. Pat > Still, since I was able to install the shocks without taking off the > balljoint assembly while balancing on one foot, holding down the A-arm > with the other foot and fitting the shocks in by depressing the piston > with one hand and fitting it into the upper mount with the other hand, > it seems like it would be fairly easy to do using your method of sitting > on a lever but without a need to release the ball joint assembly. The mere thought of using a spring compressor inside the wheelwell gives me cold chills. If something goes wrong and a spring gets loose, the consequences are too nasty to contemplate. Even if your hand/arm/face escapes mutilation, you'll have a devil of a time regaining control of the expanded spring; you'd probably have to tow the car to a shop with tools that you don't own. Not using a spring compressor means you'll need to open up enough room to get the uncompressed shock/spring unit out intact. The alternatives are freeing the balljoint (Bigger Hammer), removing the upper-inner A-arm bolt (which may or may not come out easily), or removing the lower-inner A-arm bolt (the shop manual method, which destroys the alignment). There's no reason to fear the hammer. As long as you keep both hands on the handle, you can't smash a finger. You certainly can't hurt the upright by whacking it--there's not enough backswing room to do any damage. Smack the upright hard enough, and the balljoint will pop free in one or two strokes. You don't hit the balljoint itself. An experienced Miata mechanic with air tools, a lift, and a big enough hammer can change all four shocks in about 1.5 hours. FWIW, the dealer's flat rate manual allows 9 hours. They'll be happy to do your next set... :-) --- Lanny Chambers '94C, St. Louis http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html > The mere thought of using a spring compressor inside the wheelwell gives > me cold chills. If something goes wrong and a spring gets loose, the > consequences are too nasty to contemplate. Even if your hand/arm/face > escapes mutilation, you'll have a devil of a time regaining control of > the expanded spring; you'd probably have to tow the car to a shop with > tools that you don't own. Me too, I didn't even think about using the spring compressor until the entire assembly was out. > Not using a spring compressor means you'll need to open up enough room > to get the uncompressed shock/spring unit out intact. The alternatives > are freeing the balljoint (Bigger Hammer), removing the upper-inner > A-arm bolt (which may or may not come out easily), or removing the > lower-inner A-arm bolt (the shop manual method, which destroys the > alignment). I removed the lower inner A-arm bolt. The car was still running the factory alignment after 22K miles, so I wasn't worried about messing the alignment up. I replaced the tires with a set of RE-71's and had your alignment done immediately after replacing the shocks. Between the upgraded shocks, stickier tires and a precision alignment, it felt like a completely different and far better car. > There's no reason to fear the hammer. As long as you keep both hands on > the handle, you can't smash a finger. You certainly can't hurt the > upright by whacking it--there's not enough backswing room to do any > damage. Smack the upright hard enough, and the balljoint will pop free > in one or two strokes. You don't hit the balljoint itself. I'll try the hammer next time. > An experienced Miata mechanic with air tools, a lift, and a big enough > hammer can change all four shocks in about 1.5 hours. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > '94C, St. Louis > http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html 9 hours, ouch! At least the KYB's that I have on now are practically new, so unless something happens that damages one, it will be a while before I have to work on them again, at least on this car. Pat check out my website dood I made some custom suspension from 99' civic coilovers for my miata with koni shocks http://enorym.com the bottem link is for my miata http://atomicinternet.homeip.net/xtra/myrone/miata/ the car is alot further now but that was it about 2 weeks ago.  SignatureEnorym http://www.enorym.com Enorym@gmail.com > Ok, so I've been talking for the last couple of years about doing my > shocks, [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Tonyrama I think the others guys have about covered it, I agree that clamping the springs is best done with the shocks out it is a bit of a nightmare job, just take your time and don't rush and you will be fine, the first time I did it I spread it over 2 days, as I only have one usable arm you have to plan even simple things like the Sway bar bolts, but now I am at about the 4 hour mark like Lanny. And like Lanny said I also found the Flyin Miata procedure the best. Not really sure how much you researched, but are you aware there are 2 types of bump stops? NA01-28-111 Old type N021-34-111 New type According to http://www.virkki.com/jyri/miata/bumps.html 90-93 used the old types, 94+ used old rear new front except special models that used new all round. Not sure on the parts numbers, but the bump stops I fitted to my KYB's, were completely different at the rear. Cheers Mark. > check out my website dood I made some custom suspension from 99' civic > coilovers for my miata with koni shocks http://enorym.com the bottem link [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >> >> Tonyrama > I think the others guys have about covered it, > I agree that clamping the springs is best done with the shocks out it is a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > now I am at about the 4 hour mark like Lanny. > And like Lanny said I also found the Flyin Miata procedure the best. Altogether, so far, I'd say I was up at maybe three hours, or four. I did the rears, and then I drove it again for a week or so before I had a chance to do the front. > Not really sure how much you researched, but are you aware there are 2 types > of bump stops? > NA01-28-111 Old type > N021-34-111 New type I don't know what I got, but they asked for the year of the car, so probably the old type. Although, the one I got didn't look much like the old one. It had a white bump stop and a seperate plastic boot. Seemed to work ok though. Tonyrama |
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