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Car Forum / Mazda / Mazda Miata / August 2005

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Water on positive battery terminal?

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Leon van Dommelen - 28 Jul 2005 00:52 GMT
Today I cleaned Bozo's trunk.  First time I did it, and yes, it was
needed.  I always assumed the trunk would stay clean enough, since it
is normally closed.  So far for that idea.  I guess all that black dirt
and grime should have given me an idea, but I really only discovered
the problem from things coming out of the trunk with dirt on them.

Anyway, I noticed a little pool of water around the positive battery
terminal.  Years ago I drilled some holes in the rain conduit around
the trunk opening to mount my MP 3 player in the wasted space
above the battery.  When I removed the thing, I left the screws in
there to plug the holes, except one small hole, which was too close
to the next screw.  I put some silicone glue in the small hole, IIRC,
but that was gone.  So the hole had been leaking water right on the
positive terminal.

It did not seem that the water had bridged the gap to the negative
terminal, but I am now wondering whether this may in some way be
connected to the flat batteries I experienced a couple of times
earlier.  Maybe enough conduction through the wet carpet or so
to drain it?  Though on the other hand, you would think the
battery would have enough energy to vaporize a bit of water
easily without becoming depleted.

Might also be related to the random engine cut-outs Bozo has been
having, maybe.  Road roughness splashes some water, battery voltage
drops enough to cause a problem, battery vaporizes water, welcome
back engine, let's get out of the way of that SUV.

One of the good things of having a Miata with lots of aftermarket
goodies: you always are learning new things.

Leon

Signature

Leon van Dommelen :)    Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
rammm@dommelen.net            http://www.dommelen.net/miata
                 EXIT THE INTERSTATES       (Jamie Jensen)

Lanny Chambers - 28 Jul 2005 04:03 GMT
> Might also be related to the random engine cut-outs Bozo has been
> having, maybe.  Road roughness splashes some water, battery voltage
> drops enough to cause a problem, battery vaporizes water, welcome
> back engine, let's get out of the way of that SUV.

Piffle. Occam's Razor, Leon: it's the downside of being painted white.
All other hues have warmer, hence drier, trunks.

Not to mention, owners who don't make holes in drip channels...  :-)

---
Lanny Chambers
'94C, St. Louis
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html
pws - 28 Jul 2005 14:04 GMT
> Piffle. Occam's Razor, Leon: it's the downside of being painted white.
> All other hues have warmer, hence drier, trunks.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> '94C, St. Louis
> http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html

That does seem odd. If I were to mount something in that space, I would
do almost anything but drill holes in the exterior metal. Spot-welding a
mounting plate to the interior metal would make more sense to me,
assuming that you could make it fit. Even using strong adhesive and
velcro would probably work if the MP3 unit isn't too heavy.

Pat
Leon van Dommelen - 29 Jul 2005 01:23 GMT
>> Piffle. Occam's Razor, Leon: it's the downside of being painted white.
>> All other hues have warmer, hence drier, trunks.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>That does seem odd. If I were to mount something in that space, I would
>do almost anything but drill holes in the exterior metal.

The gutter is not visible when the trunk is closed.

> Spot-welding a
>mounting plate to the interior metal would make more sense to me,

assuming that you had a spot welder.

>assuming that you could make it fit.

The thing was in a mounting box already.  It was designed to be able
to slide out of the dash.

> Even using strong adhesive and
>velcro would probably work

Hate to experiment with a $1,000 or whatever unit.  And there is no flat
metal around to glue or velcro to,

> if the MP3 unit isn't too heavy.

Leon

Signature

Leon van Dommelen :)    Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
rammm@dommelen.net            http://www.dommelen.net/miata
                 EXIT THE INTERSTATES       (Jamie Jensen)

pws - 29 Jul 2005 01:50 GMT
> The gutter is not visible when the trunk is closed.

But is is exterior metal, and drilling a hole in it did cause a problem,
whether it is visible or not.

>>Spot-welding a
>>mounting plate to the interior metal would make more sense to me,
>
> assuming that you had a spot welder.

Having a friend who does mechanic work and metal fabricating/welding
does help, but you have spent thousands modifying your car. How much
would it have cost to have a shop weld a mounting plate in place?

> The thing was in a mounting box already.  It was designed to be able
> to slide out of the dash.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Hate to experiment with a $1,000 or whatever unit.

But experimenting with a car that is worth much more than that is ok?

 And there is no flat
> metal around to glue or velcro to,

That is why I can see a need for a flat mounting plate to be installed,
which would also eliminate any need for glue or velcro experimentation
since the mounting box could then be attached directly to the plate.
This is assuming that the mounting plate and box would both fit, I
haven't seen the setup that you have.

Pat
Leon van Dommelen - 29 Jul 2005 13:22 GMT
>> The gutter is not visible when the trunk is closed.
>
>But is is exterior metal, and drilling a hole in it did cause a problem,
>whether it is visible or not.

No.  Drilling two holes too close to each other caused a problem,
since I could not put a screw in both to plug them up.

Leon

>>>Spot-welding a
>>>mounting plate to the interior metal would make more sense to me,
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
>Pat

Signature

Leon van Dommelen :)    Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
rammm@dommelen.net            http://www.dommelen.net/miata
                 EXIT THE INTERSTATES       (Jamie Jensen)

pws - 29 Jul 2005 14:05 GMT
> No.  Drilling two holes too close to each other caused a problem,
> since I could not put a screw in both to plug them up.
>
> Leon

Ok, so drilling one or more single holes did not cause a problem. If we
are going to be exact in our wording, wouldn't you at least agree that
your act of taking a drill and using it on the rain gutter caused a problem?

I am not ragging on you, I was just pointing out that attaching metal,
rather than removing it, would probably be the better option here. Like
I said, I haven't seen your setup. Would a flat mounting plate, welded
in place with the mounting box attached, both fit above the battery? I
am curious because I might go with this setup myself.

Thanks,

Pat
jeff.remson@sylvania.com - 29 Jul 2005 18:51 GMT
I think cutting holes is a good idea providing you balance them by
drilling them in the frontof the car, too.  The problems with
aftermarket mods is that they can add weight and screw up the 50:50
balance.
Leon van Dommelen - 29 Jul 2005 23:44 GMT
>I think cutting holes is a good idea providing you balance them by
>drilling them in the frontof the car, too.

There.  Finally some other scientifically thinking people on this group
besides me.

Leon :)

>  The problems with
>aftermarket mods is that they can add weight and screw up the 50:50
>balance.

Signature

Leon van Dommelen :)    Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
rammm@dommelen.net            http://www.dommelen.net/miata
                 EXIT THE INTERSTATES       (Jamie Jensen)

Ken Lyons - 30 Jul 2005 00:24 GMT
> jeff.remson@sylvania.com wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> There.  Finally some other scientifically thinking people on this group
> besides me.

And my first thought reading Jeff's posting is that he is your long lost
twin, separated at birth. Egad! Can this newsgroup handle two?
Signature

Ken Lyons '97 Brilliant Black/'90 Classic Red
Inside the Beltway
[Remove the first two digits to reply]

jeff.remson@sylvania.com - 02 Aug 2005 17:10 GMT
You flater me, Ken.  I'm not even in the same league as the Perfesser.
BRUCE HASKIN - 30 Jul 2005 04:37 GMT
Say Jeff,

I agree with Leon, but why would we want drill two  holes up front in
the hood gutter ?  You can't get water to drip on your battery terminals
from up there ! :-)  :-)  :-)

     Bruce     RED    '91  
Leon van Dommelen - 30 Jul 2005 02:47 GMT
>> No.  Drilling two holes too close to each other caused a problem,
>> since I could not put a screw in both to plug them up.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>are going to be exact in our wording, wouldn't you at least agree that
>your act of taking a drill and using it on the rain gutter caused a problem?

No.  My act of taking the drill again and drilling a hole right next
to it caused a problem.

>I am not ragging on you, I was just pointing out that attaching metal,
>rather than removing it, would probably be the better option here. Like
>I said, I haven't seen your setup. Would a flat mounting plate, welded
>in place with the mounting box attached, both fit above the battery? I
>am curious because I might go with this setup myself.

Sure, if the plate is not too thick, and there is no reason for it to be.

I did not think of having someone weld a plate to the gutter at the
time.  And that would require having to trust someone I did not
know with my precious Bozo, and probably flake off the paint and
cause the rail to rust away.

It is much less effort and worry to just go BZZZT BZZZT, Ooops, too far back,
BZZZZT  BZZZT, with a drill than finding a welder, negotiating the procedure,
going there, having car demolished, clutching head that nowadays can be
sunburned below the hair due to pulling out too much of it, drilling holes
in welded plate of steel which is hard enough steel to slip the drill to go
into the exterior paint, especially if you try to drill with the drill rotating
in the wrong direction, fixing damage to exterior paint with touch-up paint,
going to buy new drill bit for the one melted from too much drilling in the
wrong direction, finding drill instruction booklet to find out what position
of controls puts drill in the right direction, finding that welded plate is
sticking too far out, taking precious trunk space, that it must be sawed away
though steel is harder than tool steel used to manufacture hack saw blade,
taking out dremel tool and cutting blades, trying whether accidentally dropped
cutting blade can still be used, finding bandages, applying force to stop
bleeding

I am out of time.  I will need to write the remaining 78% of this some
other time.

>Thanks,

Don't mention it,
Leon

>Pat

Signature

Leon van Dommelen :)    Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
rammm@dommelen.net            http://www.dommelen.net/miata
                 EXIT THE INTERSTATES       (Jamie Jensen)

pws - 31 Jul 2005 08:19 GMT
> Sure, if the plate is not too thick, and there is no reason for it to be.
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Don't mention it,
> Leon

Geez Leon,
I think that is the longest reply you have ever done in response to one
of my posts.
What took longer, typing that or mutilating your rain gutter with
electric power tools. ;-)

Pat
 
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