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Car Forum / Mazda / Mazda Miata / January 2006rims and tires
I would like to put on some 16 -17'' rims and tires does anyone know whats a good size to put on a stock Maita 96 I don't want to lower it or make it higher I just need it to have some looks lol > I would like to put on some 16 -17'' rims and tires does anyone know whats > a good size to put on a stock Maita 96 > I don't want to lower it or make it higher I just need it to have some looks > lol Take it from me: if you can't keep the weight of the wheel/tire combination close to stock, don't do it.  SignatureAlan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia "If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard." > I would like to put on some 16 -17'' rims and tires does anyone > know whats a good size to put on a stock Maita 96 > I don't want to lower it or make it higher I just need it to have > some looks lol Pay attention to Allan Baker's advice. You also want to educate yourself about inset, outset and offset and make sure you understand exactly what those measurements are on the replacement rims and tires or else do NOT even think about changing rims and tires. BTW, no use asking a dealer, most have no clue about those three measurements but those are the things that will completely screw up your car if you don't know what you're doing. > I would like to put on some 16 -17'' rims and tires does anyone know whats > a good size to put on a stock Maita 96 195/50-15 on a 15x6.5 wheel with 40mm offset and wheel weight under 13 pounds, if you care at all about ride and performance. If not, then get whatever you like; if it doesn't fit, you'll find out soon enough. You might find some clues by searching the Wheel and Tire forum at miata.net. SignatureLanny Chambers '94C, St. Louis http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html >I would like to put on some 16 -17'' rims and tires does anyone know whats >a good size to put on a stock Maita 96 >I don't want to lower it or make it higher I just need it to have some looks >lol Various info is in http://www.miata.net/garage/garagetires.html I would not go too wide in tires, 195 mm is good if you ask me. Tirerack.com has a wheel machine that actually works: http://tinyurl.com/anudh So has discounttiredirect, IIRC. Leon SignatureLeon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .) rammm@dommelen.net http://www.dommelen.net/miata EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen) I was thinking something like a 16'' say 205/45/16 >>I would like to put on some 16 -17'' rims and tires does anyone know >>whats [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Leon > I was thinking something like a 16'' say 205/45/16 I've got 205/40 B.F. Goodrich Euro T/A, and while I love the look, I definitely screwed up on the wheel weight issue. If I had it to do over (and next summer, I will), I'd focus more on the unsprung mass and less on the looks. > >>I would like to put on some 16 -17'' rims and tires does anyone know > >>whats [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > > > Leon SignatureAlan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia "If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard." If you are set on going to 16" rims, the two sizes you should look at are: - 215/40R16 (0.4% change in size) - 205/45R16 (2.6% increase in size) The 40-profile tires will give a harsher ride, and greater risk of damage with pot-holed streets. Both will increase your contact patch, but unless you are adding power, you will only see a cornering improvement. (And with the 215's a potential decrease in acceleration...) Regardless, you will have a *hard* time finding a 16" rim and tire combo that is equal to or lighter than the stock rims. (Stock 15" 5-spoke is just at 15-lbs...) -- Those that you will find are normally moderate to high dollar items. Lanny's post is best on the mark if you are not looking any farther (performance wise) than changing the rims/tires. -- For that I would advise the Konig Heliums w/ 195/50R15s - L >I would like to put on some 16 -17'' rims and tires does anyone know whats >a good size to put on a stock Maita 96 >I don't want to lower it or make it higher I just need it to have some looks >lol '97 STO, "Chouki" // Change TEJAS to TX to reply via eMail // >If you are set on going to 16" rims, the two sizes you should look at >are: > > - 215/40R16 (0.4% change in size) >- 205/45R16 (2.6% increase in size) I guess if you are going to larger rims, it is a good idea to go wider as it becomes more difficult to accommodate a longer contact patch? Leon SignatureLeon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .) rammm@dommelen.net http://www.dommelen.net/miata EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen) > If you are set on going to 16" rims, the two sizes you should look at > are: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The 40-profile tires will give a harsher ride, and greater risk of > damage with pot-holed streets. Barely. The 205/40/16 tires I have are almost the exact same profile height as the 195/50/15's on my last miata. > Both will increase your contact patch, but unless you are adding > power, you will only see a cornering improvement. (And with the 215's > a potential decrease in acceleration...) You will only see a cornering improvement in some situations. The car will have more grip, but it will loose "tossability" with any increase in wheel width. Of course, the autocross people running 13X8's are not finding it too much of a problem. ;-) > Regardless, you will have a *hard* time finding a 16" rim and tire > combo that is equal to or lighter than the stock rims. (Stock 15" > 5-spoke is just at 15-lbs...) -- Those that you will find are > normally moderate to high dollar items. The stock 15" 5-spoke miata alloy is 13.2 pounds if we are talking about the style that was introduced with the M2. I have weighed them on a digital scale and it matches the weight listed on miata.net. The forged 16X7 SSR's are something like 10 1/2 pounds, and yes, they are very expensive. > Lanny's post is best on the mark if you are not looking any farther > (performance wise) than changing the rims/tires. -- For that I would > advise the Konig Heliums w/ 195/50R15s > > - L I would definitely stay with 195/50/15's if there are no plans to increase the power to a large degree. There are a lot of advantages to the smaller and less expensive wheels; less expensive tires, generally less wheel weight per dollar spent, and less cost if you ruin one, plus thieves tend to ignore 14 and 15 inch wheels for the most part. I could find a replacement wheel for my last miata for about $80.00 if I ruined it. That has now changed to over $300.00, yikes! I "curb-surf" a bit more carefully these days. Pat Thank you guys for all your info I'm learning more from this group about the rims and tires that I ever knew I like all the info everyone gives its a big help Happy Holidays and Happy New Year everyone >> If you are set on going to 16" rims, the two sizes you should look at >> are: [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > Pat >> If you are set on going to 16" rims, the two sizes you should look at >> are: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Barely. The 205/40/16 tires I have are almost the exact same profile >height as the 195/50/15's on my last miata. Using 195/50R15 v. 215/40R16, with a 0.4% change in overall diameter, yet a 1 inch increase in rim size, I calculate a loss in profile height. -- Where am I wrong? >> Both will increase your contact patch, but unless you are adding >> power, you will only see a cornering improvement. (And with the 215's [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >I have weighed them on a digital scale and it matches the weight listed >on miata.net. I am referring to the 5-spoke Enkei's on the '97 STO (Miata.net has them listed at 14.5-lbs...) >The forged 16X7 SSR's are something like 10 1/2 pounds, and yes, they >are very expensive. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Pat '97 STO, "Chouki" // Change TEJAS to TX to reply via eMail // > Using 195/50R15 v. 215/40R16, with a 0.4% change in overall diameter, > yet a 1 inch increase in rim size, I calculate a loss in profile > height. -- Where am I wrong? You aren't wrong, I am. My math sucks. 50% of 195 is 97.5. 40% of 205 is 82. Definitely lower profile. > I am referring to the 5-spoke Enkei's on the '97 STO (Miata.net has > them listed at 14.5-lbs...) Those aren't the wheels that most people are thinking of when you mention 5-spoke 15" miata alloys. The wheels that you have are semi-rare. Except for the special editions, Mazda did not start using 15 inch wheels until 1999. I had a set of the same Enkei wheels, they also came standard on the 1996 "M" edition, but those were the only two cars that Mazda put them on, less than 8,000 sets of that style of wheel total. They are still one of my favorite looking factory miata wheels. Much better looking than that nasty looking lightweight set they put on the '93LE and the '95M. ;-) Pat (running for cover) you better run! talkin' trash 'bout my 92SE wheels too there texas boy ;-) Hey, the 99 I just bought has these great looking 17"wheels, they're by TSW and I was hoping that they would be light or semi light, I was wrong. In comparison, I've weighed a wheel and tire combo on the 14"BBS forged wheels (that Pat is talking trash about) at about 25lbs, a 14" steel wheel and tire combo at about 35lbs and.........drum roll please..........one of my new 17" TSW wheels with tire at 40 stinkin' pounds! I'm hoping to get a chance to transfer the set and be able to drive the 99 with the BBS to see the actual handling difference. That should be interesting! Weights above are not precise or directly comparable as all three tires are different sizes and brands. Chris 92BB&T SE FS 99BBB >> Using 195/50R15 v. 215/40R16, with a 0.4% change in overall diameter, >> yet a 1 inch increase in rim size, I calculate a loss in profile [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Pat (running for cover) > you better run! talkin' trash 'bout my 92SE wheels too there texas boy ;-) Heh-heh, I actually like the way the BBS wheels look. It was just typical that the 1996 "M" edition that I bought had wheels that I liked the looks of a bit better than the BBS wheels on the "M" of the year before, but they weighed something like 4 additional pounds each, the heaviest alloy wheel released on a miata at that point. > Hey, the 99 I just bought has these great looking 17"wheels, they're by TSW > and I was hoping that they would be light or semi light, I was wrong. In [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > transfer the set and be able to drive the 99 with the BBS to see the actual > handling difference. That should be interesting! I still have the stock 15" alloys with the EVS-100's because I haven't made a final decision on selling them yet. (may go back to a more stock miata). I think that they are about 30 pounds, 13.2 pounds for the wheel. We could put those on your miata and you would have an idea of how the car is stock, except for the much better tires, of course. I don't think that I have seen a 1999+ with the BBS wheels on it. You might like how they look on there and going from 40 to 25 pounds per wheel/tire will make a huge difference. You also shouldn't have any problem selling the TSW's if you decide to replace them. Pat My '96 came with Borbet wheels and tires that say "Ecasta Supra 205/50R15 86V" on them. I've got the stock wheels on now because the above didn't seem ideal (to say the least) for winter driving. I don't know squat about *wheels/tires... can anyone comment on these? miker *except that every car I've had with alloys has had rim leaks and has needed at least one bent wheel replaced. No problem with steelies here! > My '96 came with Borbet wheels and tires that say "Ecasta Supra 205/50R15 > 86V" on them. I've got the stock wheels on now because the above didn't seem [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > *except that every car I've had with alloys has had rim leaks and has needed > at least one bent wheel replaced. How many alloys is that total? Sounds like bad luck. I have been driving for 21 years now and have lost track of how many different sets of alloy wheels I have bought, used, sold, etc., but it is a lot. Most of these have been factory. I currently have two sets of 5-spoke 15" miata wheels, as well as a set of SSR comps that I have been driving on for about 12,000 miles. None of these are bent, and none have rim leaks. I drove the '96M with 3 different sets of wheels on it for over 5 years and never had a rim leak or wheel bend. That is now over 6 years and over 85,000 miles without a rim leak or a wheel bend using four different sets of alloys, just counting miatas. In 21 years I remember two rim leaks and I have never bent a wheel, though I have scraped a curb or three. I also never had a bent wheel on any car that I have bought. Again, sounds like I have either had really good luck or vice-versa with you. No problem with steelies here! The problem is that they weigh 18 pounds, which is apparently what Mazda uses as their maximum wheel weight before performance really suffers. Less wheel weight is always good. The car will drive fine with steelies, but it will drive better with alloy wheels that weight less, assuming that they are not bent and are holding air. ;-) Pat > None of these are bent, and none have rim leaks. I drove the '96M with 3 > different sets of wheels on it for over 5 years and never had a rim leak > or wheel bend. That is now over 6 years and over 85,000 miles without a > rim leak or a wheel bend using four different sets of alloys, just > counting miatas. You're lucky. I drove a 96M for 6 years and had to have 2 of the four wheels repaired. The first time, I remember the bump that bent the wheel, and it had to be fixed immediately (the tire would no longer seal). The second time I don't know when it got bent -- I just noticed that the steering wheel was vibrating, and the next time I had tires mounted they mechanic showed me that the wheel was noticably out of round. > In 21 years I remember two rim leaks and I have never bent a > wheel, though I have scraped a curb or three. I also never had > a bent wheel on any car that I have bought. Again, sounds like > I have either had really good luck or vice-versa with you. You must have much better roads that we have here in Minnesota. SignatureGrant Edwards grante Yow! Everybody gets free at BORSCHT! visi.com > You're lucky. I drove a 96M for 6 years and had to have 2 of > the four wheels repaired. The first time, I remember the bump [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > vibrating, and the next time I had tires mounted they mechanic > showed me that the wheel was noticably out of round. It was only about 30K miles on the original wheels before I sold them, and I remember buying a set of two '96M alloys for $40.00 each to keep as replacements, but they were badly bent when they arrived so I got a refund on those. > You must have much better roads that we have here in Minnesota. Probably so. I have never been to MN to see the roads. I have a friend who lives in MN about 60 miles from the Canadian border and he rides his motorcycle to stay here during the colder part of the winter. I'll ask him what the comparison is like. Pat >> You must have much better roads that we have here in Minnesota. Or possibly you're better at avoiding potholes that I am. :) > Probably so. > I have never been to MN to see the roads. They're not bad most of the time, but in the spring and fall, repeated freeze/thaw cycles sometimes open up some pretty big potholes. Once in a while, at the bottom of a pothole, you can see the trolly tracks that were paved over in the 50's. SignatureGrant Edwards grante Yow! .. over in west at Philadelphia a puppy is visi.com vomiting... > > *except that every car I've had with alloys has had rim leaks and has needed > > at least one bent wheel replaced. > > How many alloys is that total? Sounds like bad luck. I've had to buy three (all on different cars); I've had at least one rim leak on *every* alloy car, probably 8-9 vehicles. My last, a '94 Acura Legend, had intermittant rim leaks on three of the four rims. Maybe this is Minnesota? > No problem with steelies here! > > The problem is that they weigh 18 pounds I understand the difference between sprung/unsprung weight for handling, but so far as acceleration and speed I think the difference between me and a 100-lb 20-something lead-footed babe is going to make more difference than that few pounds of wheels. :) miker > > The problem is that they weigh 18 pounds > > I understand the difference between sprung/unsprung weight for handling, but > so far as acceleration and speed I think the difference between me and a > 100-lb 20-something lead-footed babe is going to make more difference than > that few pounds of wheels. :) Some have estimated the effect of unsprung mass on acceleration at 10X that of sprung mass. Do you weigh >380 pounds? :-) [here's the math: 10 x 4(18-11) + 100] My tires lose about one psi per week. It was the same with the stock wheels, so I assume that's normal for alloys. My Honda's steel wheels might lose one psi per year. SignatureLanny Chambers '94C, St. Louis http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html > > > The problem is that they weigh 18 pounds > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > wheels, so I assume that's normal for alloys. My Honda's steel wheels > might lose one psi per year. I had alloy wheels on my last two Miatas - I might have lost a pound or two every 6 months with both cars. The same was true of my ex's Sentra (with alloys). >> > The problem is that they weigh 18 pounds >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > [here's the math: 10 x 4(18-11) + 100] I have a completely stock '91. In a pure test of acceleration, I was able to keep up with an identical year, but heavily modified car which probably had 10 to 20 hp advantage (and a lighter driver, initials KT) but 16" wheels. I had expected it to pull away, but we were within an inch or two up to about 80 km/h. I would guess the equivalent weight penalty to be about more around 200 lbs. In your equation that's about 5 times. > My tires lose about one psi per week. It was the same with the stock > wheels, so I assume that's normal for alloys. My Honda's steel wheels > might lose one psi per year. I have the original '91 alloys which leaked about 3 lbs/day. They were then stripped and repainted almost 6 years ago. New tires were mounted right after and are still on the car. I use steel wheels in the winter. When I take the alloy wheels off the shelf in the spring, they are exactly the pressure they were in the fall, allowing that it is usually about the same temperature both times. They remain exactly the same over the summer as well. I imagine that when the tires are changed, the damage will cause some corrosion and the leaking will start. Although without salt exposure, it won't be as much of a problem. > Some have estimated the effect of unsprung mass on acceleration at 10X > that of sprung mass. Do you weigh >380 pounds? :-) How fast am I accelerating? :-) miker >> > The problem is that they weigh 18 pounds >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Some Who? > have estimated the effect of unsprung mass on acceleration at 10X >that of sprung mass. Are you really seriously believing that complete nonsense or just baiting me? > Do you weigh >380 pounds? :-) > >[here's the math: 10 x 4(18-11) + 100] The math is right but the physics is as right as I am 381 lb. >My tires lose about one psi per week. It was the same with the stock >wheels, so I assume that's normal for alloys. Untrue. I lose a couple of lb in a couple of months. The reason I know is that in an ideal world, I would check my tire pressure every week, but in real life, I end up checking only at the autocross one or two months after the last one. > My Honda's steel wheels >might lose one psi per year. Maybe it is just usage. How many miles on the Honda versus the Miata? Or oxidation. Leon SignatureLeon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .) rammm@dommelen.net http://www.dommelen.net/miata EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen) > > have estimated the effect of unsprung mass on acceleration at 10X > >that of sprung mass. > > Are you really seriously believing that complete nonsense or just > baiting me? Baiting, of course. Feel free to come up with a more supportable number. > > My Honda's steel wheels > >might lose one psi per year. > > Maybe it is just usage. How many miles on the Honda versus the Miata? > Or oxidation. 1994 Miata: 135k, wheels new 21k ago, tires changed once. 1985 Accord: 177k, original wheels, lots o' tires. SignatureLanny Chambers '94C, St. Louis http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html >> > have estimated the effect of unsprung mass on acceleration at 10X >> >that of sprung mass. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Baiting, of course. Feel free to come up with a more supportable number. The maximum possible is 2 times, or a 100% increase in effective mass. However, only the tires can approach that number. (Another benefit of light tires. A 2 lb heavier tire adds an additional 15 lb or so to be accelerated.) For stock 14" wheels, the maximum increase is only 40%, rather than 100%, and the true number is more likely to be about 20%, assuming the wheel is attached to the axis. For the 205/45 R17 tires coming with my new Miata, the maximum increase is 50%, and the likely one 25%. For example, for stock 11 pound 94-97 alloys with 16 pound Toyo T1-R 195/55 R14 tires, the effective wheel and tire mass to be accelerated is about 161 lb, not 1080 lb as by your formula. Switching to 19 lb 205/45 R16 Toyos mounted on 21 lb TSW blades, this increases to 236 lb. But if you dump the blades for 11 lb alloys (lowest weight I could find on miata.net, corresponding to Mugen MF-10, Racing Hart CP-035, Sparco Viper R, Volk TE-37), your mass to accelerate is only 187. The 26 lb increase compared to stock is mainly due to tires; the 11 lb wheels account for only 4 of the increase. Note: low price and effect of potholes on wheels not guaranteed. If you decide you may as well go for 30 lb Momo Arrows, with 24 lb Michelin Pilot MXX3 tires, the mass to accelerate becomes 317 lb, or almost 10% of the mass of the car, something that should be noticeable. Also, I may be underestimating the effect of the tires in the above. Masses could approach 181 lb for stock, 256 for TSW Blades, 206 lb for racing alloys. At 343 lb for your nice Momo wheels, your cool could suffer if you cannot keep up with a Miata fitted with wheels that look like teddy bears. The bears have 130 lb less to drag along and should keep up quite well with the racing alloys. Other suspension elements' effective mass is not mentionably increased above true. Leon SignatureLeon van Dommelen :) Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .) rammm@dommelen.net http://www.dommelen.net/miata EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen) > but so far as acceleration and speed I think the difference > between me and a 100-lb 20-something lead-footed babe is going to > make more difference than that few pounds of wheels. That depends entirely on the measurements, particularly bra size. Better send .jpg of 100-lb 20-something lead-footed babe and we'll make an assessment. XS11E: Good call! Chris 99BBB 92BB&T SOLD! >> but so far as acceleration and speed I think the difference >> between me and a 100-lb 20-something lead-footed babe is going to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Better send .jpg of 100-lb 20-something lead-footed babe and we'll make > an assessment. You need to take more care avoiding curbs when you park. > miker > > *except that every car I've had with alloys has had rim leaks and has > needed > at least one bent wheel replaced. No problem with steelies here! >> *except that every car I've had with alloys has had rim leaks >> and has needed at least one bent wheel replaced. No problem >> with steelies here! > You need to take more care avoiding curbs when you park. Nonsense. I've had a number of rims bent. I know for a fact that no curbs were involved in bending any of them. SignatureGrant Edwards grante@visi.com > >> *except that every car I've had with alloys has had rim leaks > >> and has needed at least one bent wheel replaced. No problem [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Nonsense. I've had a number of rims bent. I know for a fact > that no curbs were involved in bending any of them. And I'm pretty careful about hitting curbs from the one time I *did* bend a wheel on one. miker >>> *except that every car I've had with alloys has had rim leaks >>> and has needed at least one bent wheel replaced. No problem [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Nonsense. I've had a number of rims bent. I know for a fact > that no curbs were involved in bending any of them. How did they bend then? Warped in the sun? >>> You need to take more care avoiding curbs when you park. >> >> Nonsense. I've had a number of rims bent. I know for a fact >> that no curbs were involved in bending any of them. > > How did they bend then? Warped in the sun? Hitting potholes. SignatureGrant Edwards grante Yow! I want a VEGETARIAN at BURRITO to go... with visi.com EXTRA MSG!! Wow Grant, you showed great self control there! He kind of tossed up an underhand softball to you and you kindly just tapped it back to him. Impressive! Chris 99BBB >>>> You need to take more care avoiding curbs when you park. >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Hitting potholes. |
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