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Car Forum / Mazda / Mazda Miata / January 2006Q: 60K Service
Hello, everyone. The owner's manual says that I need to replace the timing belt and get other major services done at 60K miles. What happens if I postpone it a little, say, 61K miles? Would my car break down in the middle of the road? I live in California, if that matters at all. __ sol You can delay it if you want to. In Calif. the law sez the car can go 100,000 miles before that service must be done. ( the same belt is used on all of our Miatas ) The 60 K service is for your protection and builds in a little safety. Just remember if the belt breaks, the "state law" is not out anything. :-) Just plan a time that will fit in and you will be OK. Bruce RED '91 > You can delay it if you want to. In Calif. the law sez the car can go > 100,000 miles before that service must be done. ( the same belt is used [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Bruce RED '91 Bruce, how can all of our miatas possibly be using the same timing belt? I thought that one was required for each individual engine. (yuk-yuk) ;-) Pat Gee Pat--- and I thought that was the one thing that tied us all together as Miata owners. Darn ! Just another bubble popped in my attempt to be one of the guys. Now I am sad :-( Bruce RED '91 (with one long belt to nowhere) > Gee Pat--- and I thought that was the one thing that tied us all > together as Miata owners. Darn ! Just another bubble popped in my > attempt to be one of the guys. Now I am sad :-( > > Bruce RED '91 (with one long belt to nowhere) Hey, it's not my fault. You are just feeling sad and despondent because you recently got rained on every day for something like five years in a row.......... Don't worry, drowned rats are welcome here as well. ;-) Pat > Hey, it's not my fault. You are just feeling sad and despondent > because you recently got rained on every day for something like > five years in a row.......... Thanks for the reminder, I'd forgotten about rain. Saturday will be the 102nd day w/o rain in Phoenix, a new all-time record. It's been so long since the top was up I forgot what it looks like??? > Thanks for the reminder, I'd forgotten about rain. > > Saturday will be the 102nd day w/o rain in Phoenix, a new all-time > record. It's been so long since the top was up I forgot what it looks > like??? Ask and ye shall receive. http://www.emanphoto.com/images/photos/nature/011_pouring_rain.jpg Hey, I'll be passing through Phoenix heading west, probably in late February. Can I crash on your couch and raid your fridge for a few days???? Pat And that picture of the rain, was taken on one of the nice days ! :-) Bruce RED '91 > Hey, I'll be passing through Phoenix heading west, probably in > late February. Can I crash on your couch and raid your fridge for > a few days???? Dunno, how much do you eat? I'll see what She Who Must Be Obeyed has to say. I also need to see if we'll be here so let me know exact dates when you can, OK? > Dunno, how much do you eat? A lot. You wouldn't believe how much food I can stuff into this skinny body, which is then immediately burned off by my racehorse metabolism. > I'll see what She Who Must Be Obeyed has to say. About me stopping by or whether it is me or you that sleeps on the couch? (BFEG) ;-) > I also need to see if we'll be here so let me know exact dates when you > can, OK? Thanks, but I wouldn't do that to you. Phoenix is on my short list of possible "move-to" cities, so I may have a few questions about it if you don't mind having me send a private e-mail or two. Thanks! Pat > Phoenix is on my short list of possible "move-to" cities, so I may > have a few questions about it if you don't mind having me send a > private e-mail or two. OK, but you understand I can invoke the 5th amendment if my attorneys think I should? <G> > OK, but you understand I can invoke the 5th amendment if my attorneys > think I should? <G> 5th amemdment? What is that? The 5th amendment was swept away along with numbers 4 & 6 by something called the Patriot Act...... Oh crap, there I go again. Would somebody please ask me why they are hearing a water sound in the door sills so I can get back on topic again? It is not summer time, so the usual "why are my passenger's feet getting wet" question won't show up for a while. Maybe I'll get lucky and someone will have a clutch slave cylinder start to leak. :-) Pat Hee, hee. hee, Pat, the water you hear is the water between their ears. :-) Bruce RED '91 Oh,????? maybe it's the rain ? Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you Dr Pat. I feel so much better now. :-) Bruce RED '91 > Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you Dr Pat. I feel so much better now. > :-) > > Bruce RED '91 Hey, you wanted Dr. Phil, you got Dr. Pat. This is usenet, you get what you pay fer! :-) Pat, the love Doctor........ > > Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you Dr Pat. I feel so much better now. > > :-) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Pat, the love Doctor........ Pat her where? > Pat her where? Right here. http://imdb.com/gallery/ss/0110169/Ss/0110169/1-1.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0110169 I will never forgive Lanny for this one. I will also never make fun of his name again. :-/ Patrick - a.k.a. Pat I would not worry about going for several thousand more miles without replacing it, unless you know about your particular car having any oil leaks (that could have saturated the belt and weakened it). Lots of people reported that the timing belt can last over 100k miles when I enquired about it a year ago. When I picked up my '95 it had 100k on it. The previous owner had no recollection of ever replacing the timing belt and according to carfax she had the car since 4ok (so the original owner certainly did not replace it). So I had it done either 20k to early or 40k to late. I tend to think it was 40k to late. The engine would not be damaged if the belt snapped (the cylinders with not collide with the values because of the non-interference type engine design in the Miata). The worst that would happen if it snapped is that you are inconvenienced by being stranded. The repair is perhaps the most expensive thing that you can have done on the car. It cost me $675 including water pump, belts, two front radiator hoses, and even new plugs and wires. Lots of garages wanted much more, and Mazda's quote was astronomical at nearly double not including all the above parts. Be sure to ask for the two front cam seals, crank seal, and water pump to also be replaced. There are a couple of other small parts that may or may not require replacement at the mechanics discretion (if they look worn). good luck. > Hello, everyone. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > __ > sol Having owned a '99, I split the difference and had mine changed at 80k miles. The old belt was still OK. The Miata is a non-interference engine, so you will not damage it if the belt would fail, you'd just need a tow. Just my 2 pennies but I'm not sure that I'd spring for the water pump if I did the timing belt at or near 60k. When I changed my belt for the second go-round on my previous miata at 134k on a 13 yr old car, the water pump (original as best I could tell) was still fine. Obviously I bit the bullet and replaced it at that time but at about $70 some of us still have to think hard about it. I'm sure if you're paying someone else, they charge you far more than that for the pump. FYI, the labor to do the waterpump is nil when you're in there doing the timing belt so what ever you do, don't let the shop bs you that they need to charge you the full hrs "spec'd" for both jobs individually. Oh, I'm sure they'd never try that ;-) Chris 99BBB > Having owned a '99, I split the difference and had mine changed at 80k > miles. The old belt was still OK. The Miata is a non-interference > engine, so you will not damage it if the belt would fail, you'd just > need a tow. > Just my 2 pennies but I'm not sure that I'd spring for the water pump if I > did the timing belt at or near 60k. When I changed my belt for the second [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > to charge you the full hrs "spec'd" for both jobs individually. Oh, I'm > sure they'd never try that ;-) This has been discussed before. When I had my 60K service and had the timing belt replaced, my Mazda service guy said their policy is to inspect the pump and repleace it only if it needs it. This policy was widely ridiculed here. >> Just my 2 pennies but I'm not sure that I'd spring for the water pump if >> I did the timing belt at or near 60k. When I changed my belt for the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > the pump and repleace it only if it needs it. This policy was widely > ridiculed here. it is questionable at 60k but undeniable at 120k. the problem being that as far as i know there is no definitive way to inspect it. and since labor far outweights the cost of the part it seems like a cheap insurance to me... of course ymmv. > it is questionable at 60k but undeniable at 120k. the problem being that as > far as i know there is no definitive way to inspect it. and since labor far > outweights the cost of the part it seems like a cheap insurance to me... of > course ymmv. They can see if it looks gunked up or if it has excessive shaft play while it is off of the car, but I agree, with labor costs versus $70.00, it seems like the way to go, especially if you are already willing to spend the money to replace the belt every 60K. In addition, I do know one miata owner who had a water pump that was determined to be ok and was re-used when the timing belt was replaced, and had the car back in the shop about a year later to have the water pump replaced. I don't remember the mileage of that miata, but that person definitely wished that they had spent the $70.00. Pat > This has been discussed before. When I had my 60K service and had the > timing belt replaced, my Mazda service guy said their policy is to inspect > the pump and repleace it only if it needs it. This policy was widely > ridiculed here. My data point: timing belt replaced at 60k, but water pump was fine and left alone. Original water pump started leaking at 114k. Needless to say, the TB got replaced a little early. Same deal with the tensioner and idler pulleys, BTW: in great shape at 60k, but at 114k both were dry and on the verge of seizure. Each pulley costs about the same as one water pump, so replacing both pulleys and the pump can almost double the cost of a minimal TB job (or much more if you do it yourself). You pays yer money and takes yer chances. No regrets here, but since I use my Miata for long trips, I don't think I'll be scrimping next time.  SignatureLanny Chambers '94C, St. Louis http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html >> This has been discussed before. When I had my 60K service and had the >> timing belt replaced, my Mazda service guy said their policy is to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > left alone. Original water pump started leaking at 114k. Needless to > say, the TB got replaced a little early. Actually, that's an interesting point. If you don't do the pump at 60K and it goes out, say, at 100, it's not really a total loss, since you can do the timing belt early. The closer to 120K you get, the smaller the loss. It's a statistical question, and only data can answer it. Good point Lanny. The only other thing is the tentioners. I have seen them go bad and come right out thru the front cover. At 120,000 miles, I am sure they will ALL be bad. If you can free spin them, then they are bad. I (me) have never seen a belt go bad and break on a Miata with under 100,000 miles on it. That said, I am sure that there have been some someplace. I guess I could bring up the classic VEGA. I had 2 of them go. one at 112,000 and one at 90,000. The first time I went in and asked the shop if I should change it at 80,000, they said they didn't know. They had never had a Vega engine last that long to tell if it needed to be changed. :-) I got a very long life out of my Vega. I bought it new, pulled the engine at 500 miles and had it blue-printed, put a dual-deck intake and headers on it. The head was the real problem on them. It had a .020 warp in the center right from the factory. Splitting the web between the cyl's in the block, solved all of the other engine problems. (Wife did a total job with it. :-( It was a fast car. Bruce RED '91 > Good point Lanny. The only other thing is the tentioners. I have seen > them go bad and come right out thru the front cover. At 120,000 miles, I [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Bruce RED '91 Haha, our family had a Vega. It was a urine color with a particulary putrid sheen to it, not the prettiest vehicle in the world. It did last long enough to become the kid's car for a while. What is really funny is that when it died it sat outside for a couple of years before a guy offered to buy it for $250.00, which was great money for that car at that time. They told him that it did not work. He fiddled with the fuel system, filled up the tires, and drove away. I can remember my parents being both happy and amazed, they thought that it was going to have to be hauled off to a junkyard. :-) They were fairly fast stock, and there was talk of pulling the dead engine and doing a 350 V8 conversion, part of the project is to actually chop out the rear seats and replace part of the sheet metal to make room for bigger wheels. It is probably best that it never happened..... Pat >> My data point: timing belt replaced at 60k, but water pump was >> fine and left alone. Original water pump started leaking at 114k. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > get, the smaller the loss. It's a statistical question, and only > data can answer it. Based on personal experience (previous owner said timing belt broke around 130,000miles) and that of people here, maybe we should replace belt, seals, pulleys and water pump at 100,000 miles???? > Based on personal experience (previous owner said timing belt broke > around 130,000miles) and that of people here, maybe we should replace > belt, seals, pulleys and water pump at 100,000 miles???? That is exactly what I think. Very few of us actually drive our miatas past 200K, or even until 200K miles. If you do everything at 100K, or even 90K miles, you will probably only do the job once. The next job will probably be for the next owner. I know that regular "factory-recommended" maintenance helps a car hold value, but once the car is 10 to 15 years old and has 150,000+ miles on it, the vehicle won't be worth a lot anyway, and failing to replace the timing belt and water pump when they are working properly will not have the same bad effects of failing to maintain the car by changing fluids, tires, worn suspension parts, etc. Somebody has probably had their timing belt break at 60,100 miles, (or even less), but the vast majority of the time it is going to make it well past 100K miles. I am willing to take that small gamble and wait another 30K miles, (still 10K less than the CA requirement), to save money since my experience with the miata is that the timing belt and water pump usually tend to fail at about the same time. Pat > Just my 2 pennies but I'm not sure that I'd spring for the water pump if I > did the timing belt at or near 60k. When I changed my belt for the second [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > hard about it. I'm sure if you're paying someone else, they charge you far > more than that for the pump. I have a 1991 miata right now with approximately 130,000 miles. The timing belt was never replaced, but the water pump gave out. If I knew the history on the car and was sure that the cooling system was properly maintained, then I would go with the original water pump if it looked sound. (assuming 60K schedule) If the car had never had the coolant replaced, had tap water put in instead of distilled, or anything like that, I would want to go ahead and replace the water pump. I have never even heard of a timing belt breaking before 80K miles, and I have never dealt with one that broke on any car before approximately 110K miles. Since I go at least 80K between timing belt changes, probably closer to 90K, replacing the water pump becomes automatic. > FYI, the labor to do the waterpump is nil when you're in there doing the > timing belt so what ever you do, don't let the shop bs you that they need to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Chris > 99BBB The mechanic that I have here is one thing keeping me in Austin. An honest miata guru that charges reasonable rates, what more could you ask for? Pat |
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