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Car Forum / Mazda / Mazda Miata / August 2007Top Replacement
Hi All, Bambi's (M1) due for a new top. It must have a plastic window unless they've come up with glass that works with a roll bar. 1. Recommendations on brand/model? The Robbins Cloth is very attractive, but not quite as durable to warrant the cost difference over vinyl. (The cat LOVES it though.) The 3 window model looks a little odd from the outside IMO. Do the windows fold neatly without crinkling if you don't unzip it? Suggestions? 2. Do it myself or not? I'm in North Central Florida, 95-97 degrees, no shade available, 2 nights of overtime in the factory will easily pay for a quality local shop to do it. I could also do it myself at night. a. Remove the frame or not? (Remember the roll bar?) There are several recommendations in the garage after doing it on the car that they'd remove the frame next time. b. Has anybody gone both ways? c. Is alignment of the frame easy? Does it take 2 people? 3. Has anybody tried a row of stitches with carpet thread and tent sealer along those blasted spar attachments? Has anybody had them not separate? 4. Correct. The answer IS 42. Perhaps the correct question lies in the 4th book of the trilogy? 5. Questions? Comments? Snide remarks? Thanks, Ephar, Bambi & Maya > 3. Has anybody tried a row of stitches with carpet thread and tent > sealer along those blasted spar attachments? Has anybody had them not > separate? Har har, only if the car is less than five years old. I've had good luck with gorilla snot (3M #8001/#8011 weatherstrip adhesive). Apply a thin layer to each clean surface, let dry for 10 minutes, press together. Any auto parts store will have it. > Hi All, > Bambi's (M1) due for a new top. It must have a plastic window unless > they've come up with glass that works with a roll bar. > 1. Recommendations on brand/model? > The Robbins Cloth is very attractive, but not quite as durable to > warrant the cost difference over vinyl. (The cat LOVES it though.) Yes, there is no doubt about that. If you have a cloth now and put in a vinyl, your cat will not look at you for two months. Or maybe a lot more. > The 3 window model looks a little odd from the outside IMO. Do the > windows fold neatly without crinkling if you don't unzip it? > Suggestions? Actually, the side windows crinkle even if you do unzip it, I understand from a long-ago poster. But he said they straighten out again nicely in the sun. And they may not look any weirder than the SUV stuck in the right rear fender. > 2. Do it myself or not? I'm in North Central Florida, 95-97 degrees, no > shade available, 2 nights of overtime in the factory will easily pay for > a quality local shop to do it. I could also do it myself at night. That is a tough one. Do they torture a lot in this factory? Pull more than one or two nails? Apply more than 24 volts to the delicate parts? If so, it may be worthwhile to do it yourself during a few nights, since it will be a learning experience. Doing it at 96 degrees will however not allow you time to benefit from that experience. > a. Remove the frame or not? (Remember the roll bar?) There are > several recommendations in the garage after doing it on the car that > they'd remove the frame next time. Personally, I would definitely remove the frame. http://www.bigbendmiataclub.org/bigbend/events/051902/index.htm *Do not* attach the top to the rain rail in any way. The delicate rain rail is already bad enough to deal with without a massive heavy top attached. Professional shops do not attach them. The bolts will hold them together. If you are paranoid, you can seal the rivet holes with electrical tape. At least one professional shop does not, and it does not leak, but I did since the Mazda Workshop manual says to do it. And if you seal them, it does not leak either. > b. Has anybody gone both ways? > c. Is alignment of the frame easy? Does it take 2 people? I think you can do it yourself, but we were with two. > 3. Has anybody tried a row of stitches with carpet thread and tent > sealer along those blasted spar attachments? Has anybody had them not > separate? > 4. Correct. The answer IS 42. Perhaps the correct question lies in the > 4th book of the trilogy? > 5. Questions? Comments? Snide remarks? Your answer does not clarify the answer to everything. Including whether 42 is in base 13. Leon :) > Thanks, > Ephar, Bambi & Maya  SignatureLeon van Dommelen :) Bess, the Miata :) Bozo, the Miata :) rammm@dommelen.net http://www.dommelen.net/miata The only thing better than a white Miata is two white Miatas > > Hi All, > > Bambi's (M1) due for a new top. It must have a plastic window unless [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > And they may not look any weirder than the SUV stuck in the right rear > fender. Actually my greatest concern IS how it looks (or you can see) from the inside. When it's raining; really cold (<57); or after 10 a.m. are the only times it's up. Otherwise it's down. I think I'll still go for the single window. 95% of my driving is between 8pm and 9am. > > 2. Do it myself or not? I'm in North Central Florida, 95-97 degrees, > > no [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Personally, I would definitely remove the frame. > http://www.bigbendmiataclub.org/bigbend/events/051902/index.htm Thanks Leon, Excellent article. Pictures are good! > *Do not* attach the top to the rain rail in any way. The delicate rain > rail [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > 42 > is in base 13. But 4 is still 4 and a trilogy is still a trilogy in base 13, isn't it (or aren't they?) The correct answer (or more rightly; the right question) would be who died in the crosswalks? > Leon :) > > > Thanks, > > Ephar, Bambi & Maya Thanks Leon, You're great. Ephar, Bambi & Maya > But 4 is still 4 and a trilogy is still a trilogy in base 13, isn't it Unless it's only the part about Trillian. miker > The Robbins Cloth is very attractive, but not quite as > durable to warrant the cost difference over vinyl. (The cat > LOVES it though.) No question, you'll do what the cat wants or else! That's just part of being owned by a cat..... unless you have a killer tortoise to defend you.. http://www.glumbert.com/media/killertortoise SignatureXS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html > No question, you'll do what the cat wants or else! That's just part of > being owned by a cat..... unless you have a killer tortoise to defend > you.. > > http://www.glumbert.com/media/killertortoise Heh, my Sulcata is getting large enough that those cats would be in trouble, she is maybe 2 to 2 1/2 times the size of that mean one, but she has no aggression at all. I have still only seen one cat in the yard here, a huge Tom that looked feral to me. He stayed off of my top, but that may be because I mark it with my own scent each night..... The coyotes get quite a few of them, and we had a mountain lion munching on the local pet population in a town just a few miles down the road last year. That got everyone's attention. Pat Actually I'll put a cat bed on top for her (That would be Daisy.) Maya (http://www.xanga.com:80/home.aspx?user=PrettyPeke) has a custom made booster seat so she can see out, but hasn't really adjusted to the wind from behind. She has sat patiently during an oil change and tire rotation in Bambi while supervising waiting for that jaunt to Petsmart. Between the two of them Bambi is safe at home. Sharing your Miata with the ones you love! Isn't it great? Ephar > Hi All, > Bambi's (M1) due for a new top. It must have a plastic window unless [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Thanks, > Ephar, Bambi & Maya I just replaced my top with a Robbins no-zip glass window top. However the glass has strted to come away from the vinyl and I am going to have to re-glue it this weekend. So beware of this model top. > I just replaced my top with a Robbins no-zip glass window top. > However the glass has strted to come away from the vinyl and I am > going to have to re-glue it this weekend. So beware of this model top. I would contact the company and complain about the quality. You obviously can't just send it back in for a new one, (which would probably fail again anyway), but they may do something for you. They do not want people talking about how their products perform poorly in a miata discussion forum. This worked with me and Jackson Racing Products when they refused to replace my catalytic converter without the receipt that I could not find. I told them that having a policy of requiring the receipt was fine on their part, but having their company referred to as "Jackson Breaking Products" every time I talked about them would be my policy, mentioning their horribly-designed CAI while I was at it. They sent me a new catalytic converter fast, with no proof that I had ever purchased one. Greasy wheel and all that.... :-) Pat > > I just replaced my top with a Robbins no-zip glass window top. > > However the glass has strted to come away from the vinyl and I am [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Pat Robbins will probably do somethign for me and usually their products are good, but in my particualr circumstance it is better for me to just fix it myself. > Robbins will probably do somethign for me and usually their products > are good, but in my particualr circumstance it is better for me to > just fix it myself. Reasonable enough, but you did say to "beware" the Robbins tops. That is horrible advertising for them, especially since your comment and several other complaints that I have heard in the past will come to mind if I buy an aftermarket top. I will probably go with another brand. If my business ever gets large enough to have people talking about it, I sure don't want them saying to beware of buying from Pat.... :-) Pat > > Robbins will probably do somethign for me and usually their products > > are good, but in my particualr circumstance it is better for me to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Pat I said to beware of that particular model top. I still say the same thing. Yes, Robbins might replace the top, but you will still be stuck with the labor costs. > I said to beware of that particular model top. I still say the same > thing. True, you did say that particular top, not the entire company. I am quite willing to admit my mistake. I checked and the '91 Silverstone that I am working on has the same top. The rear window is ok, but the center bow became unglued after less than 2 years. The company seems to have some adhesion issues, and the rear window seal does seem to be of less quality than the OEM unit, having yellowed more in 2 years than the OEM unit did in double that time. To make it worse, the car with the Robbins top was covered most of the time where the OEM top sat out in the blazing sunshine summer after summer. I used a OEM top from a 1999 model on my 1996 miata for over 4 years and it looked better than the Robbins top after only 2 years, as well as having no problems at all. This is an OEM top that I bought used to begin with. > Yes, Robbins might replace the top, but you will still be stuck with the labor costs. Or in my case, lost time. Still, I think that I would chalk it up, send the top back, and install a different model, probably a factory one with the frame modification again, or the entire 1999-2005 frame/top setup if I could afford it. I can definitely understand not wanting to deal with the time or money. Are you tackling it today? Pat > > I said to beware of that particular model top. I still say the same > > thing. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Pat I am going to try to find some similar material as the top is made of. I plan to glue the glass to some of the material and then the rest of the material to the edge of the top. I hope to eliminate the pressure that i think caused the glass to cvome away from the edge. Will keep you posted on the results. I might get pics as well. > I said to beware of that particular model top. I still say the same > thing. Yes, Robbins might replace the top, but you will still be > stuck with the labor costs. Probably not. I had problems with the fit of a Robbins no-zip glass window top. Robbins sent me a new *zip* window top (upon my agreement) without having me return the defective top *AND* offered to pay for the installation of the new top. As I did the installation of the original, I couldn't take advantage of that offer. Call Robbins. -- Ken Lyons '97 Brilliant Black/'90 Classic Red Inside the Beltway [Remove the first two digits to reply] The e-mail I received in response to my letter: ========================================================================= Dear Mr. Lyons, Thank you for your letter and explaining the problem. You are correct we have had a problem, which we are correcting. Please tell us what material you have so we can replace your top. Please fax us a copy of receipt and the name of the Trim Shop who installed your top. We will have the top replaced at no charge. Best regards, Doug Robbins V.P. Sales & New Product Development Robbins Auto Top Company, Inc. (877) 404-3200 Fax (805) 604-3201 www.robbinsautotopco.com > Call Robbins. > -- [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > www.robbinsautotopco.com Now THAT is the kind of advertising that they want to see. Ken's post sent me from "probably not" to "probably so" on a Robbins model when I purchase a new top down the road. I trust word of mouth like this far more than the company's advertising. They could have compensated something for you for being required to do 2 top installations, but some companies would have used it as an excuse, saying that it must not have fit because the installation was *unprofessional*. Robbins appears to have excellent customer service and they stand behind their products. That is one of the most important things to me on most buying decisions. Pat > I just replaced my top with a Robbins no-zip glass window top. > However the glass has strted to come away from the vinyl and I am > going to have to re-glue it this weekend. So beware of this model top. I just replaced my OEM top with a QuikTops.com zippered glass window that folds without unzipping. (Is that what yours is?) They gave me a velcro-ed cover for the middle rib that has to float under the top to allow the glass to lower. That velco cover ripped one of the seams near the window. I took the cover off and the metal rib slides against the top much better now. Glued the seam that was ripped. If you have a similar setup, try removing the rib cover when you repair the seam. i have had good experiences with kwiktops.com and aabestco.com tops. the fabric definitely looks better than the stock vinyl but it requires more maintenance (annual waterproofing). personally i don't like the look of the three window model and three plastic windows sounds like three times the trouble to me. i would not get anything other than glass. both kwiktops.com and aabestco.com sell glass window versions that fold without unzipping the window, but this requires a simple modification of adding straps between the rear two bows. it may have some impact with your roll bar so you should talk to them about it. i can't stress enough the value of a real glass window. it is just so much safer having a good clear view out of your rear window. > Hi All, > Bambi's (M1) due for a new top. It must have a plastic window unless [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Thanks, > Ephar, Bambi & Maya > i can't stress enough the value of a real glass window. it is > just so much safer having a good clear view out of your rear > window. The opposing viewpoint from my local shop (Mike's Place) is that the glass is too heavy for the Miata top, maybe because the window is so large? Whatever the reason may be, he showed me some where the fabric around the window had totally rotted away due to sun damage and now my Kwiktop is doing the same thing after only 2 1/2 years which is just about what Mike said would happen. The rest of the top is in perfect condition and shows no wear or sun damage, only the fabric surrounding the window. I agree the glass window has many advantages but if you want the top to last it's something to think about... SignatureXS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html >> i can't stress enough the value of a real glass window. it is >> just so much safer having a good clear view out of your rear [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I agree the glass window has many advantages but if you want the top to > last it's something to think about... i never heard of that problem before. my top is now two years old and looks like new. my top is not robbins. never heard of this as a problem with the one piece factory glass tops. mine is a two piece glass top. looks like the original na zip window style top but the rear two bows are not attached and strap between those bows (that prevents you from actually dropping the zippered window) allows for folding the top without unzipping the window. perhaps it is the one piece tops that have the separation problem that you are talking about and not the two piece tops? who knows. but i hope i have more than just sixth months of life left in my top... >> The opposing viewpoint from my local shop (Mike's Place) is that >> the glass is too heavy for the Miata top, maybe because the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> I agree the glass window has many advantages but if you want the >> top to last it's something to think about... > i never heard of that problem before. You don't live in a warm climate I guess? > perhaps it is the one piece tops that have the separation problem > that you are talking about and not the two piece tops? Two piece. SignatureXS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html |
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