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Car Forum / Mazda / Mazda Miata / August 2008

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1990 needs new shocks...

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Alan Baker - 17 Aug 2008 21:35 GMT
...badly.

What's the consensus?

Signature

Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>

Lanny Chambers - 18 Aug 2008 01:54 GMT
In article
<alangbaker-CBDBA5.13353017082008@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,

> What's the consensus?

Koni Sport, if you're planning to keep the car for a few more years and
never want to do shocks again.

Signature

Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C

Chris D'Agnolo - 18 Aug 2008 01:56 GMT
Probably anything but OEM would sum it up. Unless you don't mind replacing
shocks every 40k or so then, go for it. If you're not into high performance
/ adjustability, I think KYB makes a pretty inexpensive set. Their AGX's are
adjustable and have a very good reputation as being almost as good as the
adjustable Koni's and substantially cheaper. There's other stuff out there
of course. It's hard to go wrong with Bilstiens.

Let us know what you go with and how you like it,
Chris
99BBB

> ...badly.
>
> What's the consensus?
jdmx5er@aol.com - 19 Aug 2008 22:44 GMT
> ...badly.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Vancouver, British Columbia
> <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>

I have the KYB AGX eight way adjustable with the FM springs. The
shocks are very nice and easy to adjust. Installation was snap. (Never
had done the job before.)

IIRC, the Koni’s require modification to the mount.

Gary
jfeelders - 20 Aug 2008 00:23 GMT
Yes, the Koni's springcaps need modification from bolt M10 to M12. I have
posted pictures on my miata-site
(http://www.xs4all.nl/~jfeelder/miata/techniekaandr.html#schokbrekers). The
site is in dutch language but I guess by using BabelFish lot of the text
will be translated failry properly...

Jeroen
The Netherlands

---

On Aug 17, 4:35 pm, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
> ...badly.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Vancouver, British Columbia
> <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>

I have the KYB AGX eight way adjustable with the FM springs. The
shocks are very nice and easy to adjust. Installation was snap. (Never
had done the job before.)

IIRC, the Koni’s require modification to the mount.

Gary
Chris D'Agnolo - 24 Aug 2008 03:00 GMT
Well I have to disagree or at least add a note here as to the ease of this
job (a snap?). I would be willing to bet that Gary 'assisted' or watched
while somebody else did this operation. I'm not trying to be an a.s Gary,
maybe you're just a 'natural' but changing shocks on the Miata and that
means using a spring compressor. That tool by itself makes this job very
difficult to refer to as a snap! There are many potential issues /
difficulties any time you've got to use one of these. I've done tons of work
on my Miata's including changing shocks twice and personally, I'd rate
shocks / springs as 'not for the faint of heart' and probably best done with
an experienced assistant at least the first time. I just don't want the OP
to assume it's as easy as unbolting the old shocks and bolting the new ones
in (it is almost that easy on some vehicles).

Chris
99BBB

On Aug 17, 4:35 pm, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
> ...badly.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Vancouver, British Columbia
> <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>

I have the KYB AGX eight way adjustable with the FM springs. The
shocks are very nice and easy to adjust. Installation was snap. (Never
had done the job before.)

IIRC, the Koni’s require modification to the mount.

Gary
Pinot - 24 Aug 2008 03:27 GMT
> Well I have to disagree or at least add a note here as to the ease of
> this job (a snap?).

Could you elaborate a little, or maybe provide a link?

--
Pinot
Chris D'Agnolo - 24 Aug 2008 06:01 GMT
Miata.net garage has multiple links, see here:
http://www.miata.net/garage/garagehandling.html

Chris
99BBB

>> Well I have to disagree or at least add a note here as to the ease of
>> this job (a snap?).
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> --
> Pinot
Pinot - 24 Aug 2008 06:19 GMT
> Miata.net garage has multiple links, see here:
> http://www.miata.net/garage/garagehandling.html

Thanks.  I should have known.

--
Pinot
Jim - 25 Aug 2008 05:23 GMT
>Well I have to disagree or at least add a note here as to the ease of this
>job (a snap?). I would be willing to bet that Gary 'assisted' or watched
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>to assume it's as easy as unbolting the old shocks and bolting the new ones
>in (it is almost that easy on some vehicles).

The first time I changed my shocks (and springs), I had never done
anything more complicated on a car than replacing the plug wires.  I
used the write ups on miata.net and advice from Flyin' Miata.  It took
me most of the weekend but I was able to do it by myself.  The hardest
thing was figuring out exactly what to hit with the hammer to open the
ball joint.  I only had to run out for one thing, a socket big enough to
fit the spring compressor I was using.

Jim
Grant Edwards - 25 Aug 2008 05:33 GMT
>>Well I have to disagree or at least add a note here as to the
>>ease of this job (a snap?).

[...]

> The first time I changed my shocks (and springs), I had never
> done anything more complicated on a car than replacing the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> only had to run out for one thing, a socket big enough to fit
> the spring compressor I was using.

I replaced shocks in an NA using the split-the-ball-joint
method documented on a couple different web sites.  I've done a
bit of auto stuff (I'd replaced shocks before and even torn
down, rebuilt, and swapped an engine).  It took me pretty much
an entire weekend to do 4 shocks.  I'd say it could be done by
anybody who can use hand-tools and follow directions, but I
woldn't call it a "snap".  It's 10-20 hours of hard work, and
there are a couple times when a second pair of hands is awfully
helpful.

It's also not without opportunity for injury: having a car up
on ramps and messing about with spring compressors both need to
be done with care.

Next time I think I'm paying somebody else to do it. :)

Signature

Grant

Lanny Chambers - 25 Aug 2008 06:19 GMT
> The hardest
> thing was figuring out exactly what to hit with the hammer to open the
> ball joint.

The hardest part for me was not owning a big enough hammer. Working
alone with only hand tools, it took four hours to do all four, half of
which was spent cranking the stupid spring compressor. And that included
drilling out four top mounts for Konis, multiple "hydration" breaks in
95? heat, and cleaning up a very messy undertray while it was off.

Fortunately, I didn't have to deal with any frozen fasteners, which can
add days to the process.

Before you start, make sure you have a 14mm deepwell socket for the
upper mount nuts, and spare cotter pins if you use the Bigger Hammer
method. Note that you don't actually separate the balljoint, merely
detach the balljoint assembly from the upright. And a 5-pound hammer
will bust it loose in one or two strokes, while a carpenter hammer won't
do squat. Tape the white upper mount gaskets to the fenders as you
remove them, so they dangle into your way, or you'll almost certainly
forget at least one of them later!

Signature

Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C

Alan Baker - 19 Aug 2008 23:32 GMT
In article
<alangbaker-CBDBA5.13353017082008@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,

> ...badly.
>
> What's the consensus?

I'm taking a hard look at the Flyin' Miata Stage 2.5 kit.

For $1,064, you get FM springs, Tokico Illumina shocks, FM antiroll
bars, shock mounts (to increase suspension travel at the rear) and
better bumpstops for the front.

Anyone done the whole kit? Or used the FM springs, or the Tokico shocks?

Signature

Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>

jdmx5er@aol.com - 20 Aug 2008 12:10 GMT
> In article
> <alangbaker-CBDBA5.13353017082...@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Vancouver, British Columbia
> <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>

Did the FM Stage 1 kit. Love the AGX shocks. Springs lowered the car
nicely, but were less stiff than I would like. If I ever change them,
would talk with the techs at FM re stiffer springs.

Gary
jdmx5er@aol.com - 20 Aug 2008 12:16 GMT
> > In article
> > <alangbaker-CBDBA5.13353017082...@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Gary

Just went to the FM website and noticed the Stage 1 now comes with the
Tokico Illumina shocks. It’s been a few years…..

Gary
Chris D'Agnolo - 24 Aug 2008 03:04 GMT
Maybe now I see why you (Gary) referred to changing the shocks as a snap.
You replaced springs and shocks and I'm assuming that they came mounted. In
that case it could make sense but keep in mind the OP was talking about
replacing shocks. By themselves they're actually a much bigger job.

Thanks,
Chris
99BBB

> On Aug 19, 6:32 pm, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Gary

Just went to the FM website and noticed the Stage 1 now comes with the
Tokico Illumina shocks. It’s been a few years…..

Gary
jdmx5er@aol.com - 24 Aug 2008 13:47 GMT
> Maybe now I see why you (Gary) referred to changing the shocks as a snap.
> You replaced springs and shocks and I'm assuming that they came mounted. In
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> Gary

Sorry, I was not trying to mislead anyone. I am not a mechanic.  If I
can do the job solo in my garage alone with no power tools in 4 hours
with directions printed from miata.net, it can’t be to hard. (ymmv).
No the shocks from FM were not pre-mounted.

The spring compressor was needed only to remove the stock units. After
disassembly, I assembled the new units  (a workbench with clamps is
helpful during this process) and installed without need of the
compressor. Don’t forget to reinstall the white washer at the top of
the front units. (Did that on the first one…oops.)

Gary
adventuremyk - 25 Aug 2008 19:50 GMT
>I'm taking a hard look at the Flyin' Miata Stage 2.5 kit.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Anyone done the whole kit? Or used the FM springs, or the Tokico shocks?

This is precisely the set-up that I had on my '93 but I had it well
before they started packaging it as a kit.  I also had a few of the
Flyin Miata chassis braces and added the rear cross-bar that was
standard on the '94+ models (mostly to hold in a JL Stealth Box)

The Illumina's are great with 1 being a little softer than stock, 2
being about stock, then dial it down to 'pool table with the wheels
bolted on' if that is your pleasure. A little fiddling with the sway
bars and alignments and it was dialed in right were I wanted it;
mostly neutral but a slight drop of throttle would let the tail start
to rotate and it was easily held with the throttle.  I used this
set-up for around 10 years including a few thousand miles of hard
track use at Sebring Raceway.  

Swapping the swaybars takes less time to do than simply pulling out
the tools to do it. It's a breeze! I can't think of how many sets I
have done.  I did have a shop put the shocks/springs in as they had
the tools for it that I didn't.

For my '96 I did nearly the same thing (no rear perches) and went with
the KYB-AGX series instead of the Illumina's.  I regretted it from the
moment I drove away.  The wet-sponge sounds while the shocks were cold
drove me nuts and no matter th setting they never quite seemed to have
a balanced rebound/compression setting. It seemed like they were set
up for a heavier car with stiffer springs (softer compression but too
much rebound).

Be aware of one factor if you choose to do this swap: If you do not
plan to upgrade the brakes and power along the same time-lines you
might find the car looses some of the 'fun factor' that it has with
the stock suspension.  Why? It turns and sticks so bloody well that
you will forever be thinking that you are down on power. The attitude
turns serious and the playful nature is gone. Tossing the tail out on
an onramp is no longer a random act but something you have to think
about as it will take a high speed or dramatic flick of the wheel to
get it to do it. Even then it hooks right back up.  It is a great
set-up for autocross and track days, even for hard running on the
winding back roads, but the car almost becomes too serious compared to
why I bought it. For the record, I never changed away from the stock
wheels that came on my '93 B-pkg, and stayed with either the stock 185
or a +1 to 195 tires depending on the season.  I alway stayed same
front to rear.

(You may not want to read this) Lastly, if you choose to dial that
same suspension in and find yourself smiling as you rail at absolutely
rediculous speeds through situations you just don't think should be
possible, you may think you have reached the top of the handling food
chain.. I  knew it was up there, right up until I bought a Lotus Elise
with the Lotus Sport Suspension package.  After that, my beloved,
braced, sorted suspension best friend that I had for 14 years felt,
for all the world, like driving an Expedition with 4 flat tires... ;)
Chris D'Agnolo - 28 Aug 2008 03:49 GMT
You had to go and do it, didn't you ;-) You smug bas_ _ rd you! I'm SO
jealous!

Chris
99BBB

>>I'm taking a hard look at the Flyin' Miata Stage 2.5 kit.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> braced, sorted suspension best friend that I had for 14 years felt,
> for all the world, like driving an Expedition with 4 flat tires... ;)
adventuremyk - 29 Aug 2008 06:17 GMT
>You had to go and do it, didn't you ;-) You smug bas_ _ rd you! I'm SO
>jealous!

There might not be an easy way to say it, but if I had a clean sheet
of paper (and a better hand at drawing) the Elise is about 90% of what
I would have designed myself. I might have opted to something with a
little more torque and a little different in the windshield to hoop
relationship (for wind reasons) but short of a 2.4 liter V6 (ala Dino
246 GTS) it's about perfect.

For mid-$30's (don't buy it new, for heaven's sake, don't buy it new!)
you get a car with insurance that is $20 per month more than what I
was paying on my '93 Miata, low 30's for gas mileage, and a trunk that
is pretty close in size to the Miata's.  The fun factor for the Miata
was great, in the 14 years I had my 2nd (of 3) I never had a day that
I walked out and wasn't happy to own it.  With the Elise, I see the
same relationship over the next 14-15 years.  Besides, the Lotus has a
LOT more leg room and is actually significantly more comfortable,
especially on long trips (TN to Fla happens often in this car). What's
not to like? :)

The pic is atop Norris Dam just north of Knoxville (about 12 minutes
from my house). :)

>>>I'm taking a hard look at the Flyin' Miata Stage 2.5 kit.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>> braced, sorted suspension best friend that I had for 14 years felt,
>> for all the world, like driving an Expedition with 4 flat tires... ;)
 
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