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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / December 2006

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synthetic vs petroleum based oil?

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heav - 18 Dec 2006 15:50 GMT
I have three vehicles, a 1982 300 TDT Mercedes, a 1989 Toyota 4Runner w
V6 & 4WD, and a 1985 Toyota Corolla GTS 1600 cc dual OHC.

I bought the Corolla new and have changed the oil every 2000 miles.  It
has 260,000 miles on it.  I bought the 300 TDT with 144,000 miles on it
in 1993.  I changed the oil every 2000 miles.  It now has 394,000 miles
on it.  I bought my 4Runner on eBay 3 years ago with 252,000 miles on
it.  It had synthetic oil in the gearboxes, and after some research I
decided to put syntheitics in all my vehicles in  both the gearboxes
and engines.  My 4Runner has 274,00 on it now.

When I did this in 2003 my Corolla did not ever need oil added between
changes.  Neither did the 4Runner, and the Mercedes, despite very high
mileage, usually did not need oil added between changes, but sometimes
was near the add mark at 2000 miles.

Now the Corolla needs oil after 1200 miles or so, the 4Runner needs oil
after 1400 and the 300TDT has really gone to hell.  It's lost
compression and blows out a quart of oil in about 500 miles because of
increased blow by and will not start in just cool weather, forget about
starting in cold weather.

The gearboxes have fared better.  I like the way the automatic in my
300TDT shifts with synthetic, and the rear end gearbox works fine with
synthetic gear lube.  The same is true with all gearboxes on my
4Runner.  The rear end, with limited slip, in my Corolla is fine, but
last winter I was at the Grand Canyon and it was very cold.  Overnight
the synthetic lube in the tranny leaked out through the seals when the
metal got cold and contracted and the synthetic stayed thin.  I didn't
notice, and by the time I got to Page, UT, about 100 miles away, I had
damaged a bearing in the tranny.  I would be very careful about putting
synthetic in a gearbox with older seals.

I will never use synthetic in an older engine again.  I don't know what
it did to the engine in my 300 TDT, but it sure coincided with a rapid
deterioration of the motor that had been stable for a long time.

I have switched back to Pennzoil in the 4Runner and am going to do the
same with my Corolla as soon as I get the bearing replaced in the
transmission, which I pan to do some time in the next few weeks.  I
used 15-40 Chevron in the 300 TDT for years and have switched back to
that for now until I do  a complete overhaul later this winter.

What do people on the list recommend for engine oil in my 300 TDT after
get the overhaul finished?

Paul Fretheim
Chas Hurst - 18 Dec 2006 16:21 GMT
> What do people on the list recommend for engine oil in my 300 TDT after
> get the overhaul finished?
>
> Paul Fretheim

I would use 15w40 Diesel spec mineral oil. That engine was not designed for
synthetic oils.
And consider how many miles you have left in the chassis.
Tiger - 18 Dec 2006 19:56 GMT
I still would have used synthetic oil after the rebuild. Diesel specified
synthetic oil only... not just Mobil 1... majority of Mobil 1 oils are not
for diesel. They don't have the additive to suspend that carbon deposits.

Shell Rotella Synthetic is designed for diesel engine... available at Wal
Mart in quart and gallon size at $3.99 per quart on the gallon container.

The reason why your engine last so long is because of your 2000 miles oil
changes... because when regular oil get to 3000 miles, it really starts to
decline in performance.

I would put back regular oil in all your vehicles for now... especially the
diesel and see if it resolves itself.
Ernie Willson - 18 Dec 2006 21:26 GMT
> I have three vehicles, a 1982 300 TDT Mercedes, a 1989 Toyota 4Runner w
> V6 & 4WD, and a 1985 Toyota Corolla GTS 1600 cc dual OHC.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> When I did this in 2003 my Corolla did not ever need oil added between
> changes.  etc....

> Now the Corolla needs oil after 1200 miles or so, the 4Runner needs oil
> after 1400 and the 300TDT has really gone to hell.  It's lost
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> The gearboxes have fared better.  etc...

> I will never use synthetic in an older engine again.  I don't know what
> it did to the engine in my 300 TDT, but it sure coincided with a rapid
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Paul Fretheim

I think your experience answers your question. If I were you I'd go back
to a good Pennsylvania grade petroleum based motor oil. Be sure that the
oil has the proper additive package for diesel service. What I said in
the previous article in this group "Oil Change every 3,000 mi? 1992 300E
112,000 mi", explains my logic. it has been my experience that synthetic
oils cause considerably more engine wear than petroleum based oils. In
my experience Pennsylvania (paraffin based) oils to offer the longest
engine life, particularly in diesel service.

EJ in NJ
heav - 19 Dec 2006 13:33 GMT
Chassis is good.  I have replaced any parts, including springs, when
ever they got worn out or failed.  The front end has been completely
rebuilt in the past 30,000 miles.  I had to find a custom rebuilder to
get a new driveline as Mercedes does not offer parts for the driveline.

I am going to rebuild the drivers side front seat also with new springs
and horsehair pad from Mercedes.

I have replaced all the climate control components in the past few
years.  Everything works on the car.  It is a California car and the
clear coat finish is still shiny and looks almost like new, with only a
few nicks and scratches.  No dents.  I have replaced the windshield 3
times, and it is due for another new windshield.

Paul

> I have three vehicles, a 1982 300 TDT Mercedes, a 1989 Toyota 4Runner w
> V6 & 4WD, and a 1985 Toyota Corolla GTS 1600 cc dual OHC.
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
> Paul Fretheim
trader4@optonline.net - 20 Dec 2006 15:40 GMT
> Chassis is good.  I have replaced any parts, including springs, when
> ever they got worn out or failed.  The front end has been completely
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Paul

Interesting story.   About 30 years ago, I had a Fiat 124 Spyder, which
I had purchased new.  Initially I used regular oil in it.   But Mobil 1
had just come out, which I think was the first synthetic that was
widely marketed for passenger car use.   I tried it and had a similar
experience.   The car, which only had maybe 15K miles on it, went from
not needing any oil between changes, to consuming more than a quart.  I
wrote Mobil about it, and they refunded my money.

I went back to std oil, changed it regularly, then at some point, and
not a lot of miles, (maybe 50K?), I had a head gasket blow.   When they
went to replace it, they told be the valve guides were all shot, and
questioned if I changed the oil regularly, implying this was unusual.
Of course, this car was such a piece of junk, that nothing really would
surprise me.

But anyway, it is similar to your experience.   I would not switch and
use synthetic in a car that has been using conventional.  Most
important is frequent changing of the oil.  I do use sythetic in my
Porsche, which is what is recommended.  And here's another classic.
Porsche has two different lists of oil weights depending on the temp.
Since I live in NJ, where the winters are pretty mild and the summer
temps not extreme, you would think you could use one grade all year.
You can, but the only grade on both lists is 10-40, and the only
synthetic I've found that offers that is Castrol.   Yet, Porsche
recommends Moibl 1.
heav - 21 Dec 2006 16:15 GMT
You probably won't find it at discount stores, but Mobile One is
availabe in 0/40, which is even wider in application that 10/40.

Paul

> > Chassis is good.  I have replaced any parts, including springs, when
> > ever they got worn out or failed.  The front end has been completely
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> synthetic I've found that offers that is Castrol.   Yet, Porsche
> recommends Moibl 1.
Tiger - 21 Dec 2006 17:01 GMT
Again... Mobil 1 oils are not for diesel unless it is specifically said so.
 
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