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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / May 2007

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1986 300SDL Good for WVO?

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rs44 - 29 Jan 2007 23:26 GMT
I have a 1986 SDL that I just bought.  It is very clean and
comfy...she reads 275 and is stuck there.  The seller estimates it has
near 300.  The whole reason I wanted a MB diesel (other than the
craftmanship and quality) was to convert it to use wvo.  

I am wondering if I bought the wrong model to do that with?  Anyone
know for sure?  I am reading that the pre 86’ models are easier to
convert and work on.  I love the car, but I’d be very dissappointed if
that is true.  Please comment.

PS- If this is not a good car to convert, I would be willing to
sell/trade too if anyone might be interested.

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Tiger - 29 Jan 2007 23:33 GMT
This is a good car for WVO... so do your research on which kit you want to
install.
rs44 - 30 Jan 2007 23:25 GMT
Any kit that someone is experienced in and would recommend??  Im a
first time converter and diesel owner.  I love it though!  Noise smoke
smell and all!

> This is a good car for WVO... so do your research on which kit
> you want to
> install.

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Tiger - 31 Jan 2007 04:39 GMT
No recommendation at this time. I was planning to do it on my diesel too but
lots of things to do that it is not a priority.
weelliott@gmail.com - 31 Jan 2007 15:54 GMT
I woudl suggest doing a lot of research on kits and how the systems
work before purchasing anything. I did my reserach on two forums. one
is at http://biodiesel.infopop.cc, and the other is the forums at
frybrid.com. I had originaly intended to research which kit is better,
but the more I learned about the kits, the more I figured out about
just how simple they are. It can be quite complicated ifyou try to
figure out what is the best way to do stuff, as there are many
compromises to make and solid arguments for both sides of each
decision. However, the fact that even amongst the best kits there are
differences in their philosophies tells me that none of the arguments
about which is best really hold that much water.

With that said, I'd suggest that if you are mechanically inclined,
research, design and build your own. It will be cheaper, easier to
troubleshoot, and probably work just as well if you are good. If this
doesn't sound like the solution for you, the greasecar kit is a great
kit for the money. It uses hose in hose, which gives better thermal
conduction than hose on hose, is relatively cheap comapred to others,
and is a relatively simple install. The drawback of this system is
that in many cars it still won't get the oil up to the 160-180 that
you want. That can easily be remedied by installing a flat plate heat
exchanger(FPHE) that you can get for about 80-100 dollars. Then you
have an excellent system for well under a grand. If you want to go
higher tech with alarms and stuff there is the frybrid system. It is
electronically controlled, but almost twice the price. Some people
aren't big on Chris, the owner, and I've seen him be quite rude to
people on forums, but then again, the other people were also being
quite rude.

I think Tiger mentioned that you have to switch fuel injectors. this
is not true with a two tank system like the two that I mentioned. In a
single tank system you do have to do that, but I know very little
about them except for there is a company called elsbett based in
Germany that apparenlty makes high quality kits.

As far as the car beign a good car or not, the general opinion is that
the mercedes peaked in quality in 85. They had finally worked out
almost all of the bugs.(except for the radiator overflow tube nipple
breaking off the radiator on every one of them I have ever seen.) Then
in 86 when they switched to the aluminum head engine it reduced
longevity. Apparently if you let the AL head engine overheat you are
done for. So I'd say you're fine if you're the kind of driver that
keeps an eye on the coolant temp. I don't intend to make you paranoid
to the point of watching the gauge obsessively, but if you don't think
that you'll ever let it overheat, then you will likely get a lot more
good use out of it... As long as the old owner also didn't let it
overheat.
Tom Plunket - 31 Jan 2007 19:13 GMT
weelliott wrote:

> I think Tiger mentioned that you have to switch fuel injectors. this
> is not true with a two tank system like the two that I mentioned.

The injectors are designed for diesel fuel.  Actual biodiesel will work
properly, since its dispersion properties are similar.  To get similar
dispersion out of vegetable oil with the stock injectors, you need to
heat it up to like 160 degrees CELSIUS (over 300 degrees Fahrenheit), so
this is why you "need" new injectors.  The Elsbett injectors will
disperse the oil differently so that it'll combust more properly.

from http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html :

> In cold weather vegetable oil crystallises, forming solid wax crystals
> that can quickly block the fuel filters. One solution to the all-weather
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> solid particles of between 10 and 30 microns that the specified standard
> filter would have stopped.

and

> University of Idaho: "... most research with raw vegetable oils have
> shown reduced engine life due to polymerization in the ring belt area
> and in some cases lubricating oil thickening, reduced bearing life or
> even sudden catastrophic failure..."

Their recommendations, then, are here:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#1tank

From http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html , which really made
me think twice about the way I've been doing it:

> The properties of canola oil and diesel are very similar, except a
> significant difference in viscosity, with canola oil having 12 times the
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
>    http://www.cheque.uq.edu.au/ugrad/chee4001/CHEE400102/Adam_Khan_Thesis.pdf
-tom!

--
Tom Plunket - 30 Jan 2007 18:48 GMT
> The whole reason I wanted a MB diesel (other than the craftmanship and
> quality) was to convert it to use wvo.  

I did the same.  I've got a '79 300TD.

> I am wondering if I bought the wrong model to do that with?

Nah, it's fine.  The thing that's 'required' for vegetable oil is
indirect injection.

The more I read about it, though, the more I think I just need to build
a reactor to make biodiesel in my garage.  It is suggested that
vegetable oil can cause a lot of problems, but at the same time there
are others who've been doing it for a long time and who have cars that
still run.  The "complete" conversion, which includes new injectors (the
only vendor for which I know about is in Germany) will run you a good
chunk of change.

I'm running a mix of about 30% svo in my car; I get soybean oil from a
discount superstore, 35 pounds per jug (which works out to about 4.7 US
gallons), although its price fluctuates just as bad as petroleum.  The
first tank of it blackened my fuel filters but quick, but since then the
fuel system has been clean as new.  I live in southern California, and
while it does dip below freezing at night it's not really that cold.
However, a thicker mix of veggie oil starts a lot harder on cold
mornings.  I ran a 60% mix for one tank to see what it did, but beyond
the hard starting I dropped fuel efficiency by 10-15%.

There are potentially a lot of problems with running vegetable oil as
fuel, especially WVO.  Do your research so you don't get struck by any
of them, and beware the snakeoil that is a "conversion" kit in the US.
Many of them have heaters (which help, to be sure), and many have
additional filters, but some of that is offset by other recommendations
such as, "use a more permissive fuel filter so it doesn't clop up as
easily" which results in "all that crap that was getting caught by the
filter is now being injected into your motor... if it doesn't get stuck
somewhere sooner!"

Me, I'm using SVO 'cause I haven't got my WVO collection and filtering
routine set up yet, and I pour it straight into the fuel tank.

-tom!

--
Richard Sexton - 31 Jan 2007 13:41 GMT
>I have a 1986 SDL that I just bought.  It is very clean and
>comfy...she reads 275 and is stuck there.

Go to http://www.odometergears.com and buy the gear and it'll work again.

>I am wondering if I bought the wrong model to do that with?  Anyone
>know for sure?

It'll work just fine.

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  Need Mercedes parts?   http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton       | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

henderrj - 24 May 2007 04:10 GMT
Hello,

Did you ever do a conversion on this?  I am thinking of buying one but would
want to do a conversion if I do.

Thanks for the help,

Rick Henderson

>I have a 1986 SDL that I just bought.  It is very clean and
>comfy...she reads 275 and is stuck there.  The seller estimates it has
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>PS- If this is not a good car to convert, I would be willing to
>sell/trade too if anyone might be interested.
 
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