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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / May 2007Green vehicles of 2007
A good summary of the 12 best and worst green vehicles. http://www.greenercars.com/bestof.html In the best list it's all Asian makes. Most here know who they are! In the worst Mercedes has 4 places and Chrysler has 2, giving DC 50% of the worst vehicles. Doesn't pass any So What? test. No analysis of fleet make-up and total energy cost. The Toyota Prius is particularly good at salving rich Hollywood stars' consciences. A friend has one. Not that fuel efficient. DAS  SignatureFor direct replies replace nospam with schmetterling --- >A good summary of the 12 best and worst green vehicles. > http://www.greenercars.com/bestof.html > > In the best list it's all Asian makes. Most here know who they are! > In the worst Mercedes has 4 places and Chrysler has 2, giving DC 50% of > the worst vehicles. "Dori A Schmetterling" ... > Doesn't pass any So What? test. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > A friend has one. Not that fuel efficient. Why do you say this exactly? I get about 53 MPG these days on mine. I am pretty happy with that so far. Tomes IIRC his fuel consumption is on par with any good diesel. DAS For direct replies replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > Why do you say this exactly? I get about 53 MPG these days on mine. I am > pretty happy with that so far. > Tomes Yes the newer Diesels give very good mileage and seem to run fairly well; at least in more moderate temperatures. I wish we had more access to them, including filling stations selling diesel fuel. It doesn't pay to buy the high priced Mercedes to get one of the new V6 diesels, any more than it pays to buy a Prius over the gas Corolla. Back in the 70s I knew a chap with a Mercedes diesel in Edmonton, AB. When the temperature dropped below -20°C he had to leave it running all day at work, else he'd not get it going. Even though the parking lot had block heater plug ins. > IIRC his fuel consumption is on par with any good diesel. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > pretty happy with that so far. > > Tomes > Doesn't pass any So What? test. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > DAS Not that fuel efficient compared to what? I don't have a Prius, yet, but three of my friends do. None live in Hollywood. They all love their Priuses and are very happy with the gas mileage. They get 45 to 53 in town, where they would normally get, at best, in the upper 20's with an economy car. We have a lot of l-o-n-g stoplights here and a car that recaptures braking energy and doesn't idle saves a LOT of fuel. And they're happy with the highway fuel economy but the improvement is not as impressive - they typically get 45-48 on the highway and a Corolla, driven reasonably, might achieve low 40's. > For direct replies replace nospam with schmetterling > --- [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> In the worst Mercedes has 4 places and Chrysler has 2, giving DC 50% of >> the worst vehicles. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com My Yaris has been getting hella good gas mileage... and it is non hybrid... I think I have actually been getting over the listed mpg.... >> Doesn't pass any So What? test. >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >>> In the worst Mercedes has 4 places and Chrysler has 2, giving DC 50% of >>> the worst vehicles. > My Yaris has been getting hella good gas mileage... and it is non hybrid... > I think I have actually been getting over the listed mpg.... An interesting cost comparison would be the Prius vs the much lower cost Yaris. I sat in the Yaris at the auto show and was amazed at the room for me both behind the steering wheel and in the rear seat behind. >> My Yaris has been getting hella good gas mileage... and it is non >> hybrid... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I sat in the Yaris at the auto show and was amazed at the room for me > both behind the steering wheel and in the rear seat behind. The room is fine but if youre 6'2 like me then you need one of two things to happen. Either the stearing wheel needs to be extended 2 inches.. or the seats dropped downa couple inches. Also the stearing wheel is like a cheap feeling plastic. Nothing a steering wheel cover cant fix.. Other than that I don't have too many complaints. Mainly because I bought it due to its cost efficency and gas mileage... P.S. it is a pretty smooth ride. > > I sat in the Yaris at the auto show and was amazed at the room for me > > both behind the steering wheel and in the rear seat behind. > > The room is fine but if youre 6'2 like me then you need one of two things to > happen. Either the stearing wheel needs to be extended 2 inches.. or the > seats dropped downa couple inches I had that problem of too far away from the steering wheel in the Corolla, but not in the Yaris. "Some O" ... > "Go Mavs": > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I sat in the Yaris at the auto show and was amazed at the room for me > both behind the steering wheel and in the rear seat behind. Sitting in one at a show and actually driving one is very different. We spent a lot of time driving it and the Prius when we were deciding between the two. The Yaris is a capable scooter, but as has been discussed here, we found the wheel to be uncomfortable and we also found the seats to be too cardboardy. We use it for both around town and long distance trips. Being that the Prius is a much more comfortable vehicle and more robust, we went with the Prius and are still glad that we did. We are getting 53 MPG around town these days. Tomes What can I say is small cars do give you a better mileage when comparing with others. I was told the same thing by a friend of mine who owned a Honda Jazz. Do you see the point here... _____________________________________ Free Tips to Save Car Gas Bill & Much More @ www.HowCanISaveMoney.com/tips03.htm Get Any eBook for Free @ http://tinyurl.com/2uunnx > "Some O" ... > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > MPG around town these days. > Tomes yeah the wheel and the seats are annoying.. but the wheel can be remedied.. and nicer seats can be put in it... but ultimately, as one person said.. you get what you pay for ... > "Some O" ... >> "Go Mavs": [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > MPG around town these days. > Tomes > A good summary of the 12 best and worst green vehicles. > http://www.greenercars.com/bestof.html > > In the best list it's all Asian makes. Most here know who they are! > In the worst Mercedes has 4 places and Chrysler has 2, giving DC 50% of > the worst vehicles. The Honda Civic GX as a compressed natural gas user is touted #1 in this rating. Great! Remember when the Diesel Rabbit came out and a number of carmakers decided this was the way to save money on gasoline?. Right. Diesel oil that had been running maybe 70% to 90% of the cost of gasoline suddenly shot up to prices consistently (to this day) higher than gasoline, despite the easier (I believe) process of refining. I guess we can all count on winter home heating costs to skyrocket, now. Great! However even apart from this wonderful development, we still have the CNG engine idling for hours in big city rush hour traffic, while the Prius just turns on its engine every now and then to recharge the battery most efficiently when needed. I'm sure that Civic GX is real green then. Chuck > However even apart from this wonderful development, we still have the CNG > engine idling for hours in big city rush hour traffic, while the Prius just > turns on its engine every now and then to recharge the battery most > efficiently when needed. I'm sure that Civic GX is real green then. > > Chuck What are the side effects of manufacturing these batteries anyway? >> However even apart from this wonderful development, we still have the CNG >> engine idling for hours in big city rush hour traffic, while the Prius [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > What are the side effects of manufacturing these batteries anyway? Nickel is in batteries. Go look up the environmental damages cause by mining and smelting nickel. Also the prius is prolly only a car that lasts for 100 000 miles or so making it a short-life car. Great for our landfills. I equate driving a Toyota prius as creating more damage to our environment than a Hummer, which should get you 300 000 miles in it's life and without all those toxic batteries. Want good gas mileage and curb destruction of the environment?? Then drive a chevy Aveo or a Scion and drive the speed limit >>> However even apart from this wonderful development, we still have the CNG >>> engine idling for hours in big city rush hour traffic, while the Prius [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Want good gas mileage and curb destruction of the environment?? Then drive > a chevy Aveo or a Scion and drive the speed limit I'm not highly concerned about CO2 anyway. The thing that bugs me is the damage from pumping, transporting, and refining petroleum. Add to that the exotic metals and nonbiodegradable modern chemicals that get dumped every day and you have a big problem. I'm tired of the political hacks who talk about nothing but CO2 as if it were causing a problem, which it isn't. > I'm not highly concerned about CO2 anyway. The thing that bugs me is the > damage from pumping, transporting, and refining petroleum. Add to that > the exotic metals and nonbiodegradable modern chemicals that get dumped > every day and you have a big problem. I'm tired of the political hacks > who talk about nothing but CO2 as if it were causing a problem, which it > isn't. You and I are in agreement!! And do some readin up on the environmental destruction that solar panels cause when being manufactured, and they require batteries as well, batteries that must remain over 50% charged. >>>> However even apart from this wonderful development, we still have the >>>> CNG [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > who talk about nothing but CO2 as if it were causing a problem, which it > isn't. Well said. >>>However even apart from this wonderful development, we still have the CNG >>>engine idling for hours in big city rush hour traffic, while the Prius [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > than a Hummer, which should get you 300 000 miles in it's life and without > all those toxic batteries. It's not quite as bad as a Hummer, given the mileages you cite, but it is bad. You must have read the same article I did, but failed to notice the Hummer was still worse. > Want good gas mileage and curb destruction of the environment?? Then drive > a chevy Aveo or a Scion and drive the speed limit > You must have read the same article I did, but failed to notice the > Hummer was still worse. Which Hummer? The real one or the fakes? <:) >>You must have read the same article I did, but failed to notice the >>Hummer was still worse. > > Which Hummer? > The real one or the fakes? <:) Ptrobably one of the "fakes" - that is if by "real" you mean the ones the military uses. The article I read didn't specify which Hummer. Then again, since reading that article, I've seen other sources which state a Hummer has a life-expectancy of 300,000 miles, but the Prius only has a life expectancy of 100,000 miles, which would tip the scale back in favor of the Hummer. Then again, it's all based on stuff that could easily be wrong - After all, I read it on the internet. In alt.autos.ford Fred G. Mackey <nospam@dont.spam> wrote: > Then again, since reading that article, I've seen other sources which > state a Hummer has a life-expectancy of 300,000 miles, but the Prius > only has a life expectancy of 100,000 miles, which would tip the scale > back in favor of the Hummer. Who would put the life expectancy of a Prius at 100,000 miles? Is that "cars" in general? There are some articles online about the Prius in taxi service that reference experiences at 250,000+ miles. The California version of the Prius sold in several states should have a 15 year / 150,000 mile warranty on many components. Signature--- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5 The 1st Prius batteries didn't last that long and where rather heavily priced. which meant that replacing them was not really economicly viable. hence the 100.000 miles figure. in other words outdated info. regards, M. > In alt.autos.ford Fred G. Mackey <nospam@dont.spam> wrote: >> Then again, since reading that article, I've seen other sources which [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > The California version of the Prius sold in several states should have a > 15 year / 150,000 mile warranty on many components. In rec.autos.makers.honda none <monkey@zoo.org> wrote: > The 1st Prius batteries didn't last that long and where rather heavily > priced. which meant that replacing them was not really economicly > viable. hence the 100.000 miles figure. There was a corrosion problem on the same terminal within many of the Gen I battery packs. They were covered under warranty, or goodwill, well beyond 100,000 miles. Some of the early victims had to pay half, and may have been reimbursed later when it was recognized as a latent defect. > in other words outdated info. Roger that. I was discussing the GM-holds-the-patent-on-large-NiMH-battery conspiracy, and wondered if there were really any truth to it, or just something that gets so much publicity that it morphs into a truism. Signature--- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5 I have a relative who got the first off Prius in Toronto and it's still going strong on the original batteries. She drives mostly in the inner city, so the Prius suits her driving pattern. > The 1st Prius batteries didn't last that long and where rather heavily > priced. which meant that replacing them was not really economicly [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > The California version of the Prius sold in several states should have a > > 15 year / 150,000 mile warranty on many components. > Then again, since reading that article, I've seen other sources which > state a Hummer has a life-expectancy of 300,000 miles, but the Prius [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Then again, it's all based on stuff that could easily be wrong - After > all, I read it on the internet. That correct, just pie in the sky by Prius haters. I doubt the military Hummers last near that mileage, particularly in Iraq. >:) > A good summary of the 12 best and worst green vehicles.http://www.greenercars.com/bestof.html > > In the best list it's all Asian makes. Most here know who they are! > In the worst Mercedes has 4 places and Chrysler has 2, giving DC The best green cars are also the deadliest cars to be in a collision. And we have more traffic, more road rage, etc. So factor in the enery and pollution caused by emergency response vehicles, FD, Police, Helos, energy use at the ICU, and the crematory, and the funeral processions. The benefits of the MBs are the design and quality of material, the handling, braking, safety, and technology to build a car that is green in the big picture. I would not drive , or allow my kid to drive a jap shitbox like a civic or toyota. > A good summary of the 12 best and worst green vehicles. > http://www.greenercars.com/bestof.html > > In the best list it's all Asian makes. Most here know who they are! > In the worst Mercedes has 4 places and Chrysler has 2, giving DC 50% of > the worst vehicles. It doesn't take into account how much it costs (environmentally) to make those hybrids. Mining all that nickel and shipping it all over the world for processing and manufacture is a huge hit to the environment. > Mining all that nickel and shipping it all over the world for processing > and manufacture is a huge hit to the environment. Nickel is also used in stainless steel. See exhaust systems, trash cans, kitchen utensils, etc. >>Mining all that nickel and shipping it all over the world for processing >>and manufacture is a huge hit to the environment. > > Nickel is also used in stainless steel. > See exhaust systems, trash cans, kitchen utensils, etc. In what quantities? Does it have to be shipped across the ocean and back to be turned into the final product? >>>Mining all that nickel and shipping it all over the world for processing >>>and manufacture is a huge hit to the environment. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Does it have to be shipped across the ocean and back to be turned into the > final product? Google up Sudbury Ontario and INCO smelting for close to home nickle mining......... >>>>Mining all that nickel and shipping it all over the world for processing >>>>and manufacture is a huge hit to the environment. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Google up Sudbury Ontario and INCO smelting for close to home nickle > mining......... yeah - the nickel is mined in Canada - the article I read said that, but it is shipped overseas to process into batteries and then shipped back here. If they were just making forks or trash cans out of it, I'm sure all that shipping isn't necessary. > If they were just making forks or trash cans out of it, I'm sure all > that shipping isn't necessary. It sure it. Canada to China and back. Look at all the household SS items from China. > >>Mining all that nickel and shipping it all over the world for processing > >>and manufacture is a huge hit to the environment. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Does it have to be shipped across the ocean and back to be turned into > the final product? I'd say most stainless steel items now come from China. The nickel comes from elsewhere, much from Canada. |
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