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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / June 2007Start date for 2008 MY production?
Anyone know what the start date is going to be for 2008 Model Year production at Mercedes? Deliberating on European Delivery; on their website, MB calls for a minimum of a 4 month leadtime. This would put a car ordered today to be ready at the factory at the end of September. Oddly enough, the website's still showing 2007 Model Year products on this option. -hh Generally, the change over occurs at the end of July as I recall. > Anyone know what the start date is going to be for 2008 Model Year > production at Mercedes? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > -hh If at all, it would be after their summer shutdown, which is probably in August, but that's just a guess. DAS For direct replies replace nospam with schmetterling --- > Generally, the change over occurs at the end of July as I recall. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> -hh > If at all, it would be after their summer shutdown, > which is probably in August, but that's just a guess. Which makes sense; thanks. FWIW, I was looking for the info on the context of a new C and if they're going to bring a diesel (blutech) over to the USA; found a reference that suggestted that the MY08 C-Class isn't going to debut until March 08 and that the current motor lineup includes two Euro diesels, but no blutech configuration suitable for the US market. -hh > > If at all, it would be after their summer shutdown, > > which is probably in August, but that's just a guess. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > -hh The mbusa site says "scheduled to arrive in the U.S. this summer." But yes, just the 3.0 and 3.5 gas engines. I've already read 4matic will debut in the fall, in time for winter driving season. > > > If at all, it would be after their summer shutdown, > > > which is probably in August, but that's just a guess. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > The mbusa site says "scheduled to arrive in the U.S. this summer." Just searched on that phrase...found this URL, which I assume was what you were referring to: http://www.mbusa.com/models/future/cclass/index.do More interesting reading; thanks. > But yes, just the 3.0 and 3.5 gas engines. The better of which gets barely 25mpg on EPA Highway on premium gas, while the CDI motor (not that they're bringing it to the USA, nor is it a Bluetech) gets the equivalent of 40mpg on cheaper fuel. At current prices of $3.50 {$3.00}, 50K miles will burn $7K {$3.7K}, or roughly $3K less fuel. I still miss my Scirocco, which used to be able to get 35mpg on a highway run :-) > I've already read 4matic will debut in the fall, > in time for winter driving season. Makes sense, although I'm still at a loss a to why the European Delivery Program is currently way out on fall (Sept/Oct) dates, yet still only showing MY2007 C-Class vehcles on their list: http://www.mbusa.com/edp/vehicles/C-class.do -hh > > > > If at all, it would be after their summer shutdown, > > > > which is probably in August, but that's just a guess. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > The better of which gets barely 25mpg on EPA Highway on premium gas, My E350 gets 27-28 mpg on the highway, and that's at 70-80 mph, so I assume the lighter C-class will do even better. > while the CDI motor (not that they're bringing it to the USA, nor is > it a Bluetech) gets the equivalent of 40mpg on cheaper fuel. Sometimes diesel is cheaper, sometimes it's not. > At current prices of $3.50 {$3.00}, 50K miles will burn $7K {$3.7K}, > or roughly $3K less fuel. Car & Driver just did a comparison of the E350 and E320 Bluetec. The 350 was significantly faster, and its mileage was such that it would take quite a bit to make back the diesel premium. > I still miss my Scirocco, which used to be able to get 35mpg on a > highway run :-) [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > -hh > Sometimes diesel is cheaper, sometimes it's not. True. Overall, a diesel should be less expensive per mile than gas or a hybrid, so long as you faithfully budget the cost-amortization on the battery pack. I've not seen any good recent numbers on this, but Toyota had claimed that the battery pack in the Prius represented an additional 3 cents per mile expense. With this expense included, the cost per mile of this hybrid fell in line (or worse than) the cost of running a diesel. Granted, such operating costs aren't necessarily all that high on the priority list of buyers of a luxury car, but if you're trying to reduce your Carbon footprint, it can be a consideration. > > At current prices of $3.50 {$3.00}, 50K miles will burn $7K {$3.7K}, > > or roughly $3K less fuel. > > Car & Driver just did a comparison of the E350 and E320 Bluetec. The > 350 was significantly faster, and its mileage was such that it would > take quite a bit to make back the diesel premium. C&D mentions that there's a $1K difference in MSRP between the two, and the EPA's are 27/37 for the Bluetec, vs. 19/26 for the E350. Believing these to be correct and rounding off to a difference to be 9mpg (26 vs 35), and then using current fuel prices as per: http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/ The national average for premium is $3.522, whereas diesel is $2.911 The "Miles to Payback" for the $1000 option would be: = $1000 / [ ($3.522/26mpg) - ($2.911/35mpg) ] = 19,124 miles For your generic average driver, that's only 18 months until break- even. -hh > > Sometimes diesel is cheaper, sometimes it's not. > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > The national average for premium is $3.522, whereas diesel is $2.911 Varies by time and region. A year ago, here in the Atlanta area, diesel was more expensive than premium; a month ago, about the same as premium. Now it's about 20 cents cheaper. (And remember, only the new ultra-low-sulfur diesel can be used -- an average might be misleading.) Car & Driver got 34 for the diesel and 26 for the E350 (which was almost a full second quicker to 60, BTW). They say, "And even with the fuel-economy figures from our experience, you would have to drive 49,000 miles to recoup the cost of the diesel over the gasoline, considering average fuel costs at the time of this writing of $2.43 a gallon for diesel and $2.39 for premium gasoline." > The "Miles to Payback" for the $1000 option would be: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -hh >>> Sometimes diesel is cheaper, sometimes it's not. >> True. Overall, a diesel should be less expensive per mile than gas [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> priority list of buyers of a luxury car, but if you're trying to >> reduce your Carbon footprint, it can be a consideration. FWIW, the cost of a new battery on a Prius is $8000 which at $0.03/mile would have to last for 267,000 miles. I don't think so. That doesn't include indirect costs of disposing the old battery which could well wind up being passed on the consumer as well. JD > FWIW, the cost of a new battery on a Prius is $8000 which > at $0.03/mile would have to last for 267,000 miles. I don't think so. Agreed. My recollection of the $0.03/mi statement from Toyota was that it was from roughly when the Prius was first introduced; I think it was based on a supposed $3000 replacement cost and 100,000 mile life. > That doesn't include indirect costs of disposing the old battery > which could well wind up being passed on the consumer as well. Better yet, it will get hit upon the 2nd or 3rd owner, who paid top dollar for his used car without being aware of this hidden "gotcha". The best thing to have done with a Prius is to buy it new and drive it for 2-3 years. -hh >> FWIW, the cost of a new battery on a Prius is $8000 which >> at $0.03/mile would have to last for 267,000 miles. I don't think so. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > -hh I suppose it's all relative. I just picked up a '92 300D in basically decent shape but it needed a driveline rebuild and the injector pump was pretty leaky. Not cheap repairs either but it still crunches out on the spreadsheet. JD >>>> Sometimes diesel is cheaper, sometimes it's not. >>> True. Overall, a diesel should be less expensive per mile than gas [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > JD Nor does it include the cost in $ or lives of the cobalt in the battery, most of which comes from the old 'Belgian' Congo, one of the most oppressive regimes on earth, nor does it include the $ and human cost of the rare earth metals in the battery, most of which comes from China _the_ most oppressive regime on earth. John M '94 E320 not 100% holy, either > Sometimes diesel is cheaper, sometimes it's not. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 350 was significantly faster, and its mileage was such that it would > take quite a bit to make back the diesel premium. In Germany the E320CDI is 400 euros less expensive than the E350, should be similar in the US if diesels were equally common. The acceleration figures are 6.8 seconds, 0-100 km/h for the E320CDI and 6.9 for the 350. US versions often have a different rear differential ratio which could affect the acceleration figures but should not make one a lot better while the other one would not improve about equally. Top speed is limited to 250 km/h on both cars. Average mileage 7,3 to 7,6 for the E320CDI and 9,7 to 10,2 for the E350. While diesel is normally significantly less than petrol/gas, I don't see it difficult to prefer one over the other. > > Sometimes diesel is cheaper, sometimes it's not. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > affect the acceleration figures but should not make one a lot better while > the other one would not improve about equally. The E320 has a 2.65:1 axle; the E350 3.07:1. Car & Driver found the E350 to be 0.9 sec quicker to 60. > Top speed is limited to 250 km/h on both cars. > > Average mileage 7,3 to 7,6 for the E320CDI and 9,7 to 10,2 for the E350. > > While diesel is normally significantly less than petrol/gas, I don't see it > difficult to prefer one over the other. Usually the case where the diesel-engined equivalent costs more. And in the UK diesel fuel costs more than petrol. DAS  SignatureFor direct replies replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > Car & Driver just did a comparison of the E350 and E320 Bluetec. The > 350 was significantly faster, and its mileage was such that it would > take quite a bit to make back the diesel premium. [...] On the other hand, MB US model years may be odd, like for the W221 it was MY 2007 from the start of sales, I guess from early 2006 (while Europe started September 2005). > Generally, the change over occurs at the end of July as I recall. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> -hh I think in the US there a special fixation on MY. No doubt a legacy from the days of the US manufacturer making some changes every year to encourage people to buy more. I would have thought that manufacturers issue their mods when they feel like it or have something to add, not every year, calling a 2007 car a 2008 one just because some screw design was changed in late 2007. There might be continuous improvement and perhaps it makes sense to modify the assembly line during a shutdown. DAS For direct replies replace nospam with schmetterling --- > On the other hand, MB US model years may be odd, like for the W221 it was > MY 2007 from the start of sales, I guess from early 2006 (while Europe [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >>> >>> -hh > I think in the US there a special fixation on MY. No doubt a legacy from > the days of the US manufacturer making some changes every year to encourage > people to buy more. To a great degree, it is US marketing. I recall that some European manufacturers have ended up with "half year" models, which you usually only learn about years later, when you go to get a new muffler or something :-) > I would have thought that manufacturers issue their mods when they feel like > it or have something to add, not every year, calling a 2007 car a 2008 one > just because some screw design was changed in late 2007. There might be > continuous improvement and perhaps it makes sense to modify the assembly > line during a shutdown. There are running design changes at times, although frequently limited to component-based items, which doesn't require any significant change to the production line. Sometimes these are more visible as "Limited Edition" versions, which VW does frequently with their Wolfsberg designation. -hh |
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