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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / July 2007

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Need to do front-end work; '85 W123

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Tom Plunket - 21 Jun 2007 05:28 GMT
The steering is really loose and sloppy on my wife's '85 300D.  We knew
this when we got it, and the big thing at first was that the steering
box/gear was completely and utterly shot.  Got a new one, had the shop
put it in and it was like a new car.  However, that's not everything
that we need to do, and I'd like to get the parts for the rest of the
job.  I don't intend to do the work myself, but I'd like to get the
parts myself so I don't get dinged by the shop for Extra Price Parts, so
I'm curious, what are the wear items between the steering box and the
wheels that I'd want to replace to tighten up the steering?  I've got
some guesses but I'll not distract the issue by throwing them out there.
:)  I (and she)'d like the car to drive like it's rails, at least as
much as possible.  ...we were kinda letting this slide, but we got some
new tires last weekend, trading in these crapo Signet tires for some
Michelin Agilities, but wear on the tires suggested an alignment was in
order so we might as well renew the front end while we're at it.

thanks,
-tom!

--
heav - 21 Jun 2007 15:04 GMT
Find an honest front end alignment guy and have him look the front end
over and tell you what you need.  There are not a lot of parts that
can be bad once you have the steering box right.  There are two tie
rod ends and a drag link. There are upper and lower control arm
bushings.  You should replace the bushings, steering damper and the
shocks and the coil springs if you want it to drive like new. The tie
rod ends and drag link ends are either tight and good or sloppy and
shot.  If they are tight and the grease seals are intact there is no
reason  to replace them.  Replacing the coil springs will make a big
difference in getting it to feel like a new car.

If you replace the front coils you should replace the rear ones too.
I have replaced all those parts at one time or another in the last few
years on my 1982 300 TDT which has 396,000 miles on it.  It drives
like new and the tires last just like when the car was new.  I have
had terrible luck, by the way, with front end alignments at the
dealer.  I have a local guy at an alignment shop who does not use a
computer for alignment but uses the old style system that relies on
physically measuring the toe in by attaching a steel rod between the
rims and using that to measure and it works great for him. He has some
tools that attach bubble levels to the wheels to figure camber. I am
not sure how he measures caster, but he does it by actually meauring
the parts, not depending on a computer readout.   He charges $50 for a
complete alignment and cares enough to get it right on.

I have my '82 TDT pretty much apart right now.  I pick up the engine
tomorrow which I have just had completely remanufactured for $5600 at
Metric Motors in the LA area and I have the interior all removed for
cleaning and replacement of the AC evaporator, which requires removing
the dash.

Paul Fretheim

> The steering is really loose and sloppy on my wife's '85 300D.  We knew
> this when we got it, and the big thing at first was that the steering
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> --
Tiger - 21 Jun 2007 15:21 GMT
Both tie rod assembly, center/drag link and idler arm bushing repair kit.
Everything you need would cost you under $109 at autohausaz.com.

I would change out the sway bar links too...rear ($14 a pair) and front.

The age of your car and most likely not changed  for super long time... I'd
just change them all... they all are cheap!
-->> T.G. Lambach <<-- - 21 Jun 2007 19:56 GMT
Of course all worn parts s/b replaced. The other aspect of steering
quality is the tires' aspect ratio. A 70 series tire gives quicker
steering reaction than a 78 series but the 70 rides a bit harder.

Since the car's steering box was worn you should also check the rear
suspension bushings for wear. Worn bushings in the rear allow the rear
wheels to steer the car enough so that as the front is improved a point
is reached where there's an inexplicable gap between where the steering
quality ought to be - given the front end work - and the car's actual
performance. That gap can often be found in the rear bushings.
Signature

© 2007 T.G.Lambach. Publication in any form requires prior written
permission.

Richard Sexton - 22 Jun 2007 07:43 GMT
There's also a bushing in the steering wheel and a rubber flex disc on the steering shaft you should
replace if you want that "new car feeling".

Signature

  Need Mercedes parts?   http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton       | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

DougS - 22 Jun 2007 17:03 GMT
> There's also a bushing in the steering wheel and a rubber flex disc on the steering shaft you should
> replace if you want that "new car feeling".
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages:http://rs79.vrx.net
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD |http://aquaria.nethttp://killi.net

I have read about this disc on the steering shaft from another source
also. I am looking at the same issues that the OP has and this seems
to be an important fix in the whole process.

Is this disc also present on my 1984 300D? From the sound of it, it
has to do with tilt steering (which mine does not have). Am I correct
or is this flex disc on all steering columns?
Karl - 22 Jun 2007 17:48 GMT
Has nothing to do with tilt. It is the coupling that joins the base of the steering column to the
steering box.

# 56 here:
http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=123130&M=617%2E912&GA=722%2E118405&G
M=716%2E005++++++++++++++717%2E400&CT=F&cat=222&SID=46&SGR=075&SGN=04


> > There's also a bushing in the steering wheel and a rubber flex disc on the steering shaft you should
> > replace if you want that "new car feeling".
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> has to do with tilt steering (which mine does not have). Am I correct
> or is this flex disc on all steering columns?
Tiger - 22 Jun 2007 23:45 GMT
and that coupling is supposed to break in an event of accident where it
would pushes the steering wheel up toward you... This coupling reduce that
amount of push.
Richard Sexton - 25 Jun 2007 05:45 GMT
>> There's also a bushing in the steering wheel and a rubber flex disc on the steering shaft you should
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>has to do with tilt steering (which mine does not have). Am I correct
>or is this flex disc on all steering columns?

I don't have a 300 so I'm not 100% sure, but I"m 99% sure it's there and it's easy
to spot, just look under the hood.

Signature

  Need Mercedes parts?   http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton       | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

DougS - 25 Jun 2007 20:37 GMT
> In article <1182528234.277332.138...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages:http://rs79.vrx.net
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD |http://aquaria.nethttp://killi.net

Thanks guys. Is this an easy fix (the flex disc), or does it require
removing a large component of the steering column? (either the
steering box, or the entire upper column).

Right now I am going to try and tighten up the steering box. My father-
in-law has advised me to try this first (based on what moves under the
car, and what we think is worn). It seems that the OP opted for a new
box, but I would rather not make that investment right now. There
isn't that much free play, but enough to turn off the right blinker,
so its annoying.
jch - 25 Jun 2007 21:26 GMT
>> In article <1182528234.277332.138...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> isn't that much free play, but enough to turn off the right blinker,
> so its annoying.
_____
If the steering box on the W123 is the same design as on a W126 (similar
vintage), then the play in the steering wheel can be reduced by
adjusting the recirculating ball mechanism in the steering box.  There
is a large nut on the box, and in the centre is a 6 mm Allen screw.
Undo the large nut counterclockwise slightly (not too much or hydraulic
fluid will leak out), and adjust the 6 mm Allen screw 1/8 to 1/4 of a
turn *counterclockwise* to reduce the steering wheel play.  According to
the MB specification, play should be about 1/2 to 3/4 inch at the
circumference of the steering wheel.  Do not over tighten the steering
box mechanism.  The 1/8 to 1/4 turn adjustment is usually enough.  If
that does not solve the problem then other components in the steering
linkage mechanism need to be checked and replaced where needed.
Signature

Regards / JCH

DougS - 25 Jun 2007 22:43 GMT
> >> In article <1182528234.277332.138...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> --
> Regards / JCH

Thanks, this verifies the information I received previously from
another source. Probably do this tonight.
Richard Sexton - 26 Jun 2007 04:02 GMT
>Thanks guys. Is this an easy fix (the flex disc), or does it require
>removing a large component of the steering column? (either the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>isn't that much free play, but enough to turn off the right blinker,
>so its annoying.

beats me. I got the part but upon tightening the stteering box was
happy with the result. You do understand you can't over tighten it, right?

Signature

  Need Mercedes parts?   http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton       | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

DougS - 02 Jul 2007 18:47 GMT
> In article <1182800241.518660.185...@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages:http://rs79.vrx.net
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD |http://aquaria.nethttp://killi.net

I adjusted it yesterday. Great improvement. It took out that extra
play in the steering, now I can actually feel that it pulls to the
right a little.
I saw that flex disc while I was working, it looks ok still. I won't
replace it until I replace the shocks and evaluate the handling then.
If anyone cares, I am recording all (most) of my work on my car (with
pictures) on a blog. Swing by and leave a comment if you like.
The address is: http://dougsmb.blogspot.com/

Thanks for all the help.
 
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