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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / October 2007

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rough idle when warm - 81 300TD

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tweaks - 06 Oct 2007 03:18 GMT
Car runs like a watch in the morning when cool, but after that, it begins
to idle very roughly at stop lights, etc.  It almost seems like it's the
ambient temperature (or the temp inside the engine compartment) that
defines it, but I'm not sure.

Any ideas what might cause it?  

TIA

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-->> T.G. Lambach <<-- - 06 Oct 2007 04:10 GMT
A five cylinder engine is inherently unbalanced - so M-B added a damper
to overcome the shaking. Look at the aft end of the injection pump -
right where the two oil cooler lines pass it. You'll see a bolt and a
lock nut. The bolt is a spring loaded pin called the "rack damper pin"
and it does just that - dampens the oscillations of the fuel rack.

You rack damper needs to be adjusted inward a bit. Two wrenches are
needed a 10 mm and a 12 or 14 mm for the lock nut. Loosen the lock nut
and turn the smaller bolt inward a 1/4 turn at a time and snug the lock
nut. Adjust, drive it a bit, adjust again if needed. You can also do
this with the motor running or not.
Too much inward adjustment will cause the motor to stall. Too little and
it will shake as it does now. The last time I adjusted my car's rack
damper pin the motor was shaking like crazy and with a 1/4 turn it got
quite smooth.

You should also know that there's a "new" style pin with a heavier
spring that's sold by dealer for $25 or $30. So first try adjusting the
old pin.
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© 2007 T.G.Lambach. Publication in any form requires prior written
permission.

tweaks - 07 Oct 2007 03:05 GMT
Experimented a bit this pm, and it seems to be better.  It appeared to be
as far in as it would go, so I backed it out a bit.  Will keep playing
with it !

Thanks!

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-->> T.G. Lambach <<-- - 07 Oct 2007 04:22 GMT
Buy a new rack damper pin.
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© 2007 T.G.Lambach. Publication in any form requires prior written
permission.

me - 07 Oct 2007 13:46 GMT
>A five cylinder engine is inherently unbalanced - so M-B added a
>damper to overcome the shaking. Look at the aft end of the injection
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> spring that's sold by dealer for $25 or $30. So first try adjusting
> the old pin.

Make sure your valves adjustments are correct and all other filter
maintenance is done before playing with the rack damper.
tweaks - 07 Oct 2007 16:44 GMT
Tried it yesterday, and it seems to have helped.  It was already as far
"inward" as it would go, so I backed it out a bit.  

THanks

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DougS - 08 Oct 2007 14:47 GMT
> Tried it yesterday, and it seems to have helped.  It was already as far
> "inward" as it would go, so I backed it out a bit.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Message posted usinghttp://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.auto.mercedes/
> More information athttp://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html

This is the third mention of filters that I have read today. I was
wondering if and when I should change my fuel filters. I've only had
the car for about 5 months, but I have no idea when the fuel filter
was last changed. (Yes, I have run Startron through it Tiger) It
doesn't really seem sluggish, but I can't really tell since it is a
diesel.
Any recommendations on this? The repair manuals I have suggest once a
year, is this frequent enough? What signs should I look out for to let
me know the filter needs to be changed?
trader4@optonline.net - 08 Oct 2007 16:11 GMT
> > Tried it yesterday, and it seems to have helped.  It was already as far
> > "inward" as it would go, so I backed it out a bit.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> year, is this frequent enough? What signs should I look out for to let
> me know the filter needs to be changed?

If you've had the car for 5 mths and don't know when the filters were
changed, I'd do it now.  They only cost a few bucks.    I change mine
about every 20K miles on my 300SD and have no problems.
me - 08 Oct 2007 16:59 GMT
>> On Oct 7, 11:44 am, "tweaks" <b...@indmolding.onayamspay.com>
>> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> mine
> about every 20K miles on my 300SD and have no problems.

Here is my catharsis on my old diesel........

In my old 300sd I used to change mine every second time I changed the
oil and filter (6K miles). We had dodgy diesel fuel in town because
not enough people used diesel at that time. If I bought my diesel on
the interstate at a truck stop where there was more usage and the
diesel did not sit in tanks for as long a period of time, the fuel
filters did not need changing as much. I would also blow out the air
filter with an air compressor and rotate it 180 degrees, and check the
banjo fitting, throttle linkages and little micro switches on top of
the valve cover as well. I only used Shell Rotella oil and Mann
filters.

Every third oil/filter change I would adjust my valves and replace the
air filter.

Every fifth oil/filter change I would change the transmission fluid
and rear axel fluid.

This schedule along with keeping an eye on motor mounts and replacing
them as necessary kept the old girl (Stella, my streetcar....) running
smoothly enough to stack wine glasses on the hood and she started
everytime.

Back on the old Mercedes mailing list, Stu Ritter had a tweak to
adjust the ALA compensator for the turbo charged models. It is a very
delicate adjustment that allows the altitude compensator to inject
more fuel (basically adjusted by Bar) and the turbo to kick in a bit
earlier (as I remember). The problem with the adjustment was that if
you turn the screw to far you broke a little ceramic bit in the ALA
and trashed it (expensive). I performed the adjustment on my car and
noticed a fairly remarkable increase in power  resulting in a slight
increase in exhaust soot and a slight decrease in mileage. Later I
backed it out. YVMV, and I do not recommend the change.

I also made sure all of the throttle linkages had the correct
measurements in mm (yes there is a spec on that and it is important),
replaced the Rack Damper spring with the stiffer one and made sure it
was in synchronization. adjusted the transmission modulator to the
point of a reasonably stiff but not head snapping shift (better
transmission life), and replaced the flex disks, motor and
transmission mounts. The cruse control amp needed resoldering, and the
tachometer amp/sender needed replacing once. I also replaced the
plastic bushings on the rear torsion bar that cause that annoying
thump when going over bumps.

That is about it other than tires, belts, brake shoes/rotors and brake
fluid, glow plugs, a battery, wiper blades and washer fluid.
Occasionally I needed to take the console switches out and clean them
too, when the fader control messed up the radio because I spilled
coffee. I also often needed to either replace or clean fuses,
especially in damp weather.

All in all that car ran pretty much flawlessly and lasted seventeen
years and almost 300,000 miles before I sold it (as far as I know it
is still going) for $4000.00. It did not use oil, the transmission
still shifted crisply, although it was getting a little slow going
into reverse.

No mcbrue, it never left me by the side of the highway and Hanz and
Franz never got their mitts on my car. I found a good honest Mercedes
diesel mechanic locally and he could always advise me or do stuff on
the car when I was too busy or it was beyond my competency. Yes the
rexus is probably less effort, but as you point out, not nearly as
much car.

me
- driving over the bridge with the trailer under it down by the river.
DougS - 08 Oct 2007 18:55 GMT
> <trad...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 101 lines]
> me
> - driving over the bridge with the trailer under it down by the river.

Thanks for all the input guys.
I may pick up a set of filters today when I get some other stuff (see
my post about those fabric fuel lines). Just a note, I'm doing all the
work on this one myself also. I got burned at the VW dealership a
couple of times and expanded my tool set and knowledge significantly,
saving around $300 the first time I changed my rear brakes.
Of course, I wouldn't have near enough knowledge were it not for the
help of newsgroups like this.
If anyone is interested in seeing what my car looks like, then check
out my blog:
http://dougsmb.blogspot.com/
I don't update as much as I would like to, but I'm taking a vacation
soon so I may get a bit of free time to add some pictures I've taken.
tweaks - 09 Oct 2007 02:44 GMT
A nice encapsulation of how to keep the old gals running.  Thanks for
sharing your experience.  I'm due for a weekend under the hood, and will
take a look at all of the items you've mentioned.  I'm due for fuel
filters (have a K&N air filter).   Wouldn't have thought of throttle
linkages - do you have specifics?

Also, the thought of the valves isn't overly daunting to me - something a
decent shade tree mechanic should be able to accomplish?

TIA

tweaks

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Karl - 09 Oct 2007 05:11 GMT
Adjusting the valves with the correct tools helps:

http://www.samstagsales.com/images/hz2769sh.jpg

The 2 bent ones are used together to loosen and tighten the lock nut and top
nut. The middle one keeps the valve from turning.... you don't always need
it but boy, when you do need it you need it!

HZ 2769 Set here: http://www.samstagsales.com/mercedes.htm

Not cheap, $99.00 but good to have.

> A nice encapsulation of how to keep the old gals running.  Thanks for
> sharing your experience.  I'm due for a weekend under the hood, and will
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.auto.mercedes/
> More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html
tweaks - 11 Oct 2007 02:50 GMT
A great synopsis of what it takes to keep the old gals running!  I'm
thinking I'll take the plunge and try the valve adjustment - invest in the
proper wrenches, etc.  They probably don't cost as much as having it done
for me, eh?

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