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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / January 2008Help needed - '03 C270cdi says 'no malfunctions' but won't start.
Greetings group - I need some help with my 2003 C270cdi diesel. The engine turns over well but just won't fire or start. The only thing I changed in the engine recently was the air filter, and it has run well since then. Local ambient temperature is around 4 deg celsius. All fuses are fine, incl the 50-amp for the glow-plug circuit ( I presume). There is electrical continuity through the glow plugs, The car has covered 80,000 miles and the diagnostics says 'no malfunctions'. The glow plug light comes on and goes out as per normal. The only thing I have been able to find that is puzzling me it there is electrical continuity between the supply to each glow plug and earth, and no volts at the supply in the starting cycle. All advice welcome!! John Sounds like glow plug relay is not working. Double check for power at the glow plug relay. Just follow the thick wire from the glow plug fuse and you will find the relay. Make sure you got 12V or higher there. > Sounds like glow plug relay is not working. Double check for power at the > glow plug relay. Just follow the thick wire from the glow plug fuse and > you will find the relay. Make sure you got 12V or higher there. But if the engine turns well and the temp is 4 degrees Celsius, the car should start without any help from glow plugs, it is a CDI. Could it be that you have unplugged some of the sensors, like camshaft position sensor or something? Should be a coinsidence if the crankshaft sensor had failed just when you were working elsewhere in the car. Not sure if the instrument cluster would report these sensors, should let the dealer read the codes. > But if the engine turns well and the temp is 4 degrees Celsius, the car > should start without any help from glow plugs, it is a CDI. > > Could it be that you have unplugged some of the sensors, Thanks Tiger and Anon. I doubt that any sensors were unplugged accidentally or otherwise. I have since tried a shot of diesel easy- start in the air intake and the engine fired on that. That has made me suspect the glow plugs primarily. I tested the middle three (most easily accessed) with an ohmmeter, and resistances were around 1.6 ohm which seems to be within tolerances per the data on this group. Nevertheless, I'll change them all tomorrow. At the mileage on the car, they are going to start giving trouble sooner or later anyway. I tried tracing the wire to the glow plug relay as Tiger suggested, but it is impossible to do that without disassembling the fuseboard to see underneath, and at this stage I don't want to disturb too many complex electrical gizmos if I can help it, in case I worsen the problem. All further comms very welcome, I will report after I have fitted the glow plugs, I now have the battery on a charger as it was beginning to slow down due to all the cranking. Dealer is a last dire resort - 28 miles away and well-earned poor reputation for servicing, I never found them to be any way satisfactory with previous MB's I owned, and I go back as far as a 1959 190D ponton, 1968 280SE, 1978 220D/8 etc! John Generally speaking. Glow plug relay is located on driver side wheel well behind the headlight location. You should see a black box with a cover on the bottom... Look up the part on online store so you get an idea what it looks like. I think your problem is at the glow plug relay... not the glow plug. Even with one or two bad plug, the car should start up roughly. > I think your problem is at the glow plug relay... not the glow plug. Even > with one or two bad plug, the car should start up roughly. Thanks again to everybody who is contributing to this - you seem to have a really helpful and friendly group here. The update is - last night I changed all five glow plugs. All measured on the bench, all between 1 and 2 ohms resistance. I and 5 are fiddly to get out, 2, 3 and 4 are easy. None as difficult as a peugeot 405 I had a few years ago where two plugs were behind the injection pump. Anyhow, with five new plugs installed, and the battery trickle charged overnight the car started easily this morning at ambient temperature of about 6 Celsius. Then the show started. The computer reported loss of the engine stability programme, and loss of the ASP (traction control). The little yellow engine light came on and stayed on. The blue headlight lamp came on a few times, even though the lights were off. I had visions of a big wad of money going to my local dealer after all to resolve these issues. However, after a few miles of driving, the fault displays disappeared and it reverted to 'no malfunctions', only this time with the engine running for a change. Once the car was switched off and restarted, the yellow engine light stayed off, so as of now all seems to be well. I have driven about seventy miles in it today, and it seems fine again, so I am hoping the problem lay with the glow plugs somehow. I'll be back with more questions no doubt, for now, thanks again. John in Ireland John (Ireland) schrieb: >> I think your problem is at the glow plug relay... not the glow plug. Even >> with one or two bad plug, the car should start up roughly. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > problem lay with the glow plugs somehow. > I'll be back with more questions no doubt, for now, thanks again. Sounds like battery voltage underflow. Check battery (acid, voltage, capacity, resistance, contacts) the alternator feed lamp and the voltage regulator and a belt. Below 10 V the computer cuts off assisting systems and makes a restart if voltage is high enough again. Diagnosis is easy if you use a voltmeter mit minimum function reporting the voltage minimum at cranking.  SignatureRoland Franzius I agree with Roland... seems to be battery issue. How old is your battery? I know with weak battery, you get all sort of malfunctions on the first startup of morining... This happened to my folk's 01 E320. My diesel battery died recently and when the glow plug tried to glow... the glow plug light gets dimmer and dimmer... windows rolls down real real slow... and of course, my car doesn't start... Tiger & Roland - your logic seems sound and is borne out by the car's behaviour. The battery voltage dropped after prolonged cranking trying to get the engine to start - that voltage drop obviously caused the rash of apparent faults. Since I charged the battery and changed the glow plugs, the engine has started on two frosty mornings, outside, so I think the problem is probably over. I don't think the battery is bad, because it cranked the engine hard for a long time before the voltage began to drop. It is probably the original 2003 Mercedes own- brand battery from what I can see of it. My previous car was a BMW 525TDS E34 which would continue to start until only one good glowplug was left. Maybe a 6-cylinder swings more easily than the MB 5-cylinder? I passed the BMW to my brother at over 300,000 miles and he is still driving it. The engine has never yet been opened in it - I hope this Mercedes can match that quality. john Any car battery > 4 years is suspect! Signature© 2007 T.G.Lambach. Publication in any form requires prior written permission. |
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