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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / July 2008240D lights problem
Suddenly my brake and turn lights have decided to go on strike. All other lights are ok. I did a continuity test on all the fuses and they are ok. The bulbs also seem ok. Anyone have a magic wand for diagnosing the root of this problem? TIA Replace the fuse... don't just look at it.... remove it and replace it. > Replace the fuse... don't just look at it.... remove it and replace it. Thank you Tiger. That was very quick indeed. Unfortunately replacing the fuse was not enough. I switched the ignition on and moved the arm to a blinker position. Then I shorted out the # 12 fuse but there was no blinking. The brake light didn't work either. Seems like I have more work ahead. > Suddenly my brake and turn lights have decided to > go on strike. All other lights are ok. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > TIA YOU MIGHT HAVE A GROUND WIRE SHORT AT FUSE BOX..MAY NOT BE 100 % GROUNDING Or somewhere in the trunk. MB usually has grounds near the rear lights. >>Suddenly my brake and turn lights have decided to >>go on strike. All other lights are ok. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > YOU MIGHT HAVE A GROUND WIRE SHORT AT FUSE BOX..MAY NOT BE 100 % > GROUNDING RF schrieb: > Suddenly my brake and turn lights have decided to go on strike. All > other lights are ok. > I did a continuity test on all the fuses and they are ok. The bulbs also > seem ok. > > Anyone have a magic wand for diagnosing the root of this problem? Depends. Front turning lights ok? Turning and emergency lights relais (below ash tray) ticking?  SignatureRoland Franzius > RF schrieb: >> Suddenly my brake and turn lights have decided to go on strike. All [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Depends. Front turning lights ok? Turning and emergency lights relais > (below ash tray) ticking? Thanks Guys. It's great to have such support :-) Fuse Box: I can't find a ground on the fuse box and the wiring diagram seems not to show one. There is a screw at the lower middle of the fuse holders that seems attached to the chassis and, thinking it might be a ground, I tested it but it is not. There is an infinite resistance between it and the ground pole on the battery. Plug Connection Cable Harness: This is supposed to be somewhere at the rear of the car and I remember accessing it way back. I removed the spare wheel and the cover of the wheel well on the left side where the cable comes through to the rear but it is not there. I also removed the bulb holder brackets but no sign of it there either. Does anyone know where it is supposed to be? Turning lights: All dead and no clicking when arm is moved around. Also dead: horn, blinkers, brake lights, instrument panel lights. What does work: Main lights, dipped lights, side and parking lights, radio, roof. I switched some fuses around but it made no difference. I visited Kragen a couple of days ago and they had one box with just two suitable fuses - 8 and 16 amp (one each) - and two other unusable ones. They wanted $4 box. It seems to be related to the price of oil ;-) TIA Very funny... fuses' price related to oil... I buy these online... by box of 100... yeah... tons leftover in my toolbox for three colors. Seems like you need to check the ground strap behind your instrument cluster. I think you have a broken signal stalk... take it apart and add and reflow the solder points. The brake, instrument and the turn signal has ground right behind the instrument cluster. RF schrieb: >> RF schrieb: >>> Suddenly my brake and turn lights have decided to go on strike. All [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > bulb holder brackets but no sign of it there either. Does anyone know > where it is supposed to be? Probably not the reason if the front lamps are dead too. > Turning lights: All dead and no clicking when arm is moved around. Also > dead: horn, > blinkers, brake lights, instrument panel lights. > > What does work: Main lights, dipped lights, side and parking lights, > radio, roof. If the sunroof is working cable 15 from ignition key to fuse holder and connection 15-16 inside fuseholder is ok. Sunroof is fuse c) and heating of back window d) at connection 16. 16 is connected to 15 inside the fuse box All other non working (including alternator loading lamp unfused) gadgets are at cable 15 at fuses 10 (air fan), 12 (fixed brake warning light, brake lights, turning/warning ligths), 14 (horn, backwards driving light). After turning the fuses in their sockets to remove oxidation check the voltage at cable 15 at ignition key and the fuses. Check the resistance with fuse removed. This is for the W123 240D. SignatureRoland Franzius > RF schrieb: >>> RF schrieb: [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > This is for the W123 240D. Thank you Tiger and Roland. I struggled for over an hour with that instrument cluster. I pulled it out of its frame but it is very difficult to get at the nuts behind it and a mere half inch extra would have made it simple. I'll have another try tomorrow. Roland, I am a mechanical engineer and I have long since learned that simple mechanisms are far more reliable than any others. That's the reason that my sunroof, windows, seats etc. are all mechanical and they have never given me a problem and almost certainly they never will. Turning the fuses is an old and effective trick but it did not work for me, so the problem lies elsewhere. More work tomorrow. Thanks again for the support. >> RF schrieb: >>>> RF schrieb: [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > Thanks again for the support. Just a couple of thoughts; did someone install a trailer hitch on the car at some point? I have seen some horribly butchered wiring associated with trailer lights, and grounds become problematic when they are disturbed. The other thought is that certain types of bulbs were known to cause problems in the Mercedes electrical system. I was told to only use OSRAM bulbs in my old 300. >>> RF schrieb: >>>>> RF schrieb: [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > problems in the Mercedes electrical system. I was told to only use OSRAM > bulbs in my old 300. Hi Me :-) No trailer was ever hitched to it. I have had no problems with small bulbs for years and I have never been recommended to use Osram. The four I just bought were Sylvania "Long Life." Now all I need to do is to solve my wiring problem :-) >>>> RF schrieb: >>>>>> RF schrieb: [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > Sylvania "Long Life." Now all I need to do is to solve my wiring > problem :-) A miniscule success - I was able to disconnect the instrument cluster. At its rear there are the following connections: 1 A ring of pins about 1" diameter for a round electrical plug 2 Speedometer cable 3 Oil pressure pipe 4 Three small apparently single wires - black goes to the glow plug light, red goes to the clock and yellow to the seat belt light. That's all - no sign of a ground strap or other ground connectors. Tiger: the signal stalk? You have lost me. I doubt it's the arm that does the wipers, light dips, etc. and I can't think of anything else. >>>>> RF schrieb: >>>>>>> RF schrieb: [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] >> were Sylvania "Long Life." Now all I need to do is to solve my wiring >> problem :-) A miniscule success - I was able to disconnect the instrument cluster. At its rear there are the following connections: 1 A ring of pins about 1" diameter for a round electrical plug 2 Speedometer cable 3 Oil pressure pipe 4 Three small apparently single wires - black goes to the glow plug light, red goes to the clock and yellow to the seat belt light. That's all - no sign of a ground strap or other ground connectors. Tiger: the signal stalk? You have lost me. I doubt it's the arm that does the wipers, light dips, etc. and I can't think of anything else. I took some voltage measurements at the fuse box, with the ignition in the On position and the round plug of the instrument cluster out of place. Measured from the ground terminal of the battery, fuses 2, 4 and 6 had 12v and all others had zero. Seems like a blackout :-( Back to work! >>>>>> RF schrieb: >>>>>>>> RF schrieb: [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] >>> were Sylvania "Long Life." Now all I need to do is to solve my >>> wiring problem :-) A little success - I was able to disconnect the instrument cluster. At its rear there are the following connections: 1 A ring of pins about 1" diameter for a round electrical plug 2 Speedometer cable 3 Oil pressure pipe 4 Three small apparently single wires - black goes to the glow plug light, red goes to the clock and yellow to the seat belt light. That's all - no sign of a ground strap or other ground connectors. Tiger: the signal stalk? You have lost me. I doubt it's the arm that does the wipers, light dips, etc. and I can't think of anything else. I took some voltage measurements at the fuse box, with the ignition in the On position and the round plug of the instrument cluster out of place. Measured from the ground terminal of the battery, fuses 2, 4 and 6 had 12v and all others had zero. Seems like a blackout :-( I scanned the wiring diagram into my computer and followed the wiring there. The battery feeds the light switch via a black wire to the starter and then via a red wire to the light switch. Next the light switch feeds the ignition switch via another red wire. Finally, the ignition switch via a red/black wire feeds a header for fuses 8, 10, 12 and 14, which now appear to be dead. I pulled out the light switch and discovered that the red wire is live whether the ignition is turned on or off. A short I guess. You probably just have to replace the ignition switch. There is always power to the light switch... that's why you can turn on parking light when engine is off. Are you sure there are no bunch of brown wires on metal chassis inside the cluster area? Most MB I worked on has some kind of bunch of groundings behind the instrument cluster. Thanks Tiger. > You probably just have to replace the ignition switch. I'll try to eliminate everthing down to the ignition sw. and then will order if necessary. > There is always power to the light switch... that's why you can turn on > parking light when engine is off. Ouch! You're right. I should have noticed. It's looped from the ignition sw. - does not go through it. > Are you sure there are no bunch of brown wires on metal chassis inside the > cluster area? Most MB I worked on has some kind of bunch of groundings > behind the instrument cluster. I had a close look at the diagram for the cluster of instruments and there is indeed a ground shown. However, I haven't found it yet. Some years back I silenced the seat belt buzzer because it was loud and would always run for about 20 secs, which really annoyed me. There was no sensor in the belt latch. I have a built-in reminder to fasten my seat belts :-) and it never fails. I did find a loose brown wire with a 1/4" wide spade connector but I don't see any matching spade connector. There are a few interesting things behind the cluster, including that collection of grounds you mentioned that are hitched to the chassis. I missed it because the felt pad was pushed up too far and held up by the speedometer cable. I found a black plastic box about 2.5"x1.5"x3/4" dangling from 5 wires that are wrapped with tape. Four wires are connected to the box via large blobs of solder and the 5th wire is free but it has a blob of solder on the end and I can't see where it might have broken off from any of the solder blobs. There is one free terminal on the box that has a smooth cover of solder but no evidence that the 5th wire broke off from there. Is it possible that that box is the seat belt buzzer? The instrument cluster has 4 round sockets - a little over 1/4" diameter - and two are the connectors for the glow plug and the seat belt light, which is always dark. There are two free sockets but I have no idea what they were for - probably some items that I did not specify when I ordered the car. I haven't yet followed the wires that are connected to the ground behind the cluster. Tomorrow morning I'll have another look, before my garage turns into its usual furnace state these days. Have a great weekend :-) and thanks again for your advice. RF schrieb: > Thanks Tiger. > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > a smooth cover of solder but no evidence that the 5th wire broke off > from there. Is it possible that that box is the seat belt buzzer? Check your radio connections and/or a 12V plug for external gadgets (telephone, icebox?). While MB radio is off with ignition key position 0 many people want radio or cooling even with ignition key off and make an extra soldering connection to 15 - battery direct somewhere. So the internal 15-connection will be cold a soldering or has fallen off from the connector. > The instrument cluster has 4 round sockets - a little over 1/4" diameter > - and two are the connectors for the glow plug and the seat belt light, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Have a great weekend :-) and thanks again for your advice. Its time now to circulate the model and year of your 240D ;-) SignatureRoland Franzius Thank you Roland for your efforts. > RF schrieb: >> Thanks Tiger. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > internal 15-connection will be cold a soldering or has fallen off from > the connector. I have no external gadgets nor other external connections. >> The instrument cluster has 4 round sockets - a little over 1/4" >> diameter - and two are the connectors for the glow plug and the seat [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Its time now to circulate the model and year of your 240D ;-) Opps! I missed that one. It is a 240D model - 1983. > RF schrieb: >> Thanks Tiger. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > internal 15-connection will be cold a soldering or has fallen off from > the connector. I have no external gadgets nor other external connections. >> The instrument cluster has 4 round sockets - a little over 1/4" >> diameter - and two are the connectors for the glow plug and the seat [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Its time now to circulate the model and year of your 240D ;-) Opps! I missed that one. It is a 240D model - 1983 year. I have removed the instrument cluster and it's now connected via the clock connector only. Surprisingly the metal casing is grounded and the clock is still running. >> RF schrieb: >>> Thanks Tiger. [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > connector only. Surprisingly the metal casing is grounded and the clock is > still running. I pulled the electric plug off the ignition switch and then traced the wires from there to the fuse box. They are all ok, so it seemed that the ignition switch is the problem and I have ordered it. Removing the ignition switch is giving me a lot of problems. I turned the little bolt that clamps the unit in place about 5 times and it's now loose. I pressed in the retaining pin and rotated the steering wheel to keep it in. I removed the mechanical lock and key and now the complete unit can side in towards the steering column and out about 1/4". However it can only rotate until the front part of it hits the top of the hole in the dash. It can't rotate very far in the other direction, which would bring the electric plug to the top. In that position the unit would be clear of the hole in the dash and it might slide out. Experiences would be appreciated. There is a clamp by the steering column... You have to loosen it... I think you did. Then there is a lock button just like that stubble that keeps your vacuum hose attached... at the front of the column on that shaft where the locks goes in. It is blocked by the dash panel. Just use a straightened wire hangler and fish and poke it in until the lock disengaged and that will allow the whole lock to slide out. Ignition must be in position one to release the wire harness and to remove the entire lock unit. > There is a clamp by the steering column... You have to loosen it... I think > you did. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Ignition must be in position one to release the wire harness and to remove > the entire lock unit. Thanks again Tiger. I finally found it and I cannot imagine a worse place to put it, from the access standpoint. Actually that is the best place to keep thieves stumped on why they can't pull out the steering lock. > Actually that is the best place to keep thieves stumped on why they can't > pull out the steering lock. Right on Tiger, but I doubt if most thieves would go to the trouble of removing panels. They wanna grab 'n run :-) RF schrieb: >> Actually that is the best place to keep thieves stumped on why they >> can't pull out the steering lock. > > Right on Tiger, but I doubt if most thieves would go to the trouble of > removing > panels. They wanna grab 'n run :-) There is an efficient system on http://www.hipcow.com/p/0117/anti_car_theft/ SignatureRoland Franzius > RF schrieb: >>> Actually that is the best place to keep thieves stumped on why they [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.hipcow.com/p/0117/anti_car_theft/ Thanks again guys. Roland, theft is the least of my problems by far. I ordered the ignition switch and it arrived but it was not quite like mine. The metal case and the pins were exactly the same but what was different is what was in the slot in the middle of the circle of pins. The old switch has a hammer like plastic object that disappeared down into the slot and was almost the height of the pins. It is firmly attached to another part below the slot and it seems it cannot be taken out. The new one has a plastic rod that only comes up to the top of the slot - the level of the base of the pins - and it has a diametral slot of about 1/16" wide x about 3/16" long. It seems to me that it would take another piece in the shape of the hammer above the base of the pins and a piece at the other end that would fit down into the 1/16" x 3/16" slot. Comments appreciated. Replacement ignition switch will not have that hammer lock thing in the middle. Don't worry about that at all. Just put it on. I have bought ignition switch from factory... no center lock... I then bought entire lcok assembly... again. no center lock either. Now I just bought another one... same story. Just put it on! > Replacement ignition switch will not have that hammer lock thing in the > middle. Don't worry about that at all. Just put it on. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Just put it on! Thanks again Tiger. You're always on the job, I'm happy to say. Installing the switch was very easy but I now have trouble with the locks. After I installed the switch, I put the steering lock back into its holder and the pin popped out through the hole. Then I followed the instructions for reassembling the lock. e.g. putting it into its screw cap with the detent aligned with the slot inside the cap. Next I inserted the key, turned it to position 1 and pushed the release wire through the little hole on the rim all the way in. I looked at it from the back of the lock and the pin was in the correct place. I aligned the lock with its holder, placed it in its slot and screwed the cap until it reached the end. Next I pulled the wire out and rotated back the cap until the detent released - it was just one turn. The key was still in position 1 but it would not turn. On a few occasions I found the car in a similar position with the key stuck at position 0 and just jerking the steering wheel released it and allowed it to turn and start the car. The present situation seems to be the reverse. I pushed the car back and forth a little (with the key in position 1) while turning the steering wheel and it was not locked at all. Seems like I messed it up somewhere. Hhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllpppppppppppppppppp! TIA RF schrieb: >> Replacement ignition switch will not have that hammer lock thing in >> the middle. Don't worry about that at all. Just put it on. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Hhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllpppppppppppppppppp! According to your description you have bought the wrong lock. You need the original ignition lock for your car depending on chassis number. If MB has changed the original type somehow you find the replacement types as annotations on the spare part CD. Perhaps the locks are the different types for xx0D with or without automatic preglow systems. You may look up the part numbers here http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=123123&M=616%2E912&GA=722%2E117404&G M=716%2E005210%2C214+++++++717%2E400&CT=F&cat=222&SID=46&SGR=105&SGN=05 -- Roland Franzius > RF schrieb: >>> Replacement ignition switch will not have that hammer lock thing in [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=123123&M=616%2E912&GA=722%2E117404&G M=716%2E005210%2C214+++++++717%2E400&CT=F&cat=222&SID=46&SGR=105&SGN=05 Thanks Roland for the info. I had to pull out my old Russian dictionary for a few of the words. It's a great page of info but the problem is that I do not know the chassis number of the car. I don't recall ever seeing it on the car and it certainly is not on the German papers that came with the car. The WDB vehicle ID number ends with -----1A124698. I searched on the page for it but it was not there. Do you know where it might be stamped on the car? TIA RF schrieb: >> RF schrieb: >>>> Replacement ignition switch will not have that hammer lock thing in [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > vehicle ID number ends with -----1A124698. I searched on the page > for it but it was not there. So the complete number is WDB 1231231A124698. For modifications in the catalogue you have only to look up the chassis number, at wich modifications take place, eg for the steering lock 05 with mod *148 chassis 110871 to 207386 should be for your car. Of course the easiest way is to order a new complete lock with the same keys from MB. > Do you know where it might be stamped on the car? IIRC the 123 on the firewall behind the engine, in front of the passenger seat on the floor in the transverse bar and on the production type plate on the radiator bridge, the number beginning with 123123A.... SignatureRoland Franzius >> RF schrieb: >>>> Replacement ignition switch will not have that hammer lock thing in [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >> >> Roland Franzius Thanks Roland for the info. I had to pull out my old Russian dictionary for a few of the words. It's a great page of info but the chassis #, which I am told by the local MBZ dealer is the last 6 digits of the VIN, is not on that page. My # is 124698. More problems :-) I found that the old switch has an inner part (what is inside the metal housing) that is held by just 3 tabs that project into 3 slots around the perimeter of the switch. I eased it out and, phew! what a complex switch. Not much of a surprise that it failed. Prices, I am told, can vary from $80 to $115. Umm... you had problem turning your key to on position and you didn't bother to change the tumbler while you are at it?! Get a new key from the dealer and pray it will unlock that tumbler. You should buy new tumbler. > Umm... you had problem turning your key to on position and you didn't bother > to change the tumbler while you are at it?! Hi Tiger, That happened 3 times in the 24 years I have had the car and it took less than 10 secs in all cases. I ran an earlier MBZ 200D in Germany and, when it was 6 months old, that happened. I was completely stumped but I had the good fortune to be visiting a German friend who knew exactly what to do. He said it happens occasionally to cars. That was a lesson that I never forgot and I am surprised that it has not happened to you too. > Get a new key from the dealer and pray it will unlock that tumbler. You > should buy new tumbler. Actually it did on 190E... but I got extremely lucky, I soaked it with graphite lubricant... It didn't work right away while sopping wet, but after it dried out a bit, it unlocked and stayed that way for the next 10 years. My other car 380SE... it didn't lock on me but I was working on the ignition switch... and the locking unit tab that turns the switch broke and I was like... what the hell, just do it all. > Actually it did on 190E... but I got extremely lucky, I soaked it with > graphite lubricant... It didn't work right away while sopping wet, but after [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > switch... and the locking unit tab that turns the switch broke and I was > like... what the hell, just do it all. Interesting. In all my cases a jerk or two of the steering wheel did the job. Back to the Lights Problem. By sheer accident this morning I came across a copy of a wiring diagram for the 240D and I had red dots on every ground connection and a page where I had made a schematic diagram of all the lamps in the car with a check mark for good lights and an x for the dead ones. I also had a Daimler Chrysler copy of the schematic for the steering and the steering lock. The date was in 2004 and my 3 fat manuals were in storage at the time. I'm sure one kind guy from this group gave the diagrams to me. So I visited Google Groups and found the discussion "Tracing a short in a 240D." Oddly the thread of 14 submissions stopped before there was a solution, which I find odd. I would never walk away from a discussion like that without posting the resolution. It stretched from 28 Oct 04 to 4 Nov 04 and there was no more. Tiger, T.G Lambert, Martin Joseph, Pool Man and me RF were the participants. Thanks again guys. I ordered a replacement switch from Mr-Auto-Parts = John - but he is not sure of there is a hammer-like projection in the middle of the circle of pins. Including California tax the price was about $107. Have a great holiday guys and thanks again for your support :-) RF >> Replacement ignition switch will not have that hammer lock thing in >> the middle. Don't worry about that at all. Just put it on. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Seems like I messed it up somewhere. The messup was the new and incorrect ignition switch. I replaced it with the old switch and the steering lock and the key are now working again. I expect a replacement switch in a few days. >>> Replacement ignition switch will not have that hammer lock thing in >>> the middle. Don't worry about that at all. Just put it on. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > again. > I expect a replacement switch in a few days. I think I'm living in a circus. It appears that I have another incorrect ignition switch. Now I know of 3 varieties: What is different in the three is what appears in the middle of the pins and the metal casing (shroud) around the outside. The pins and their numbers are the same on all. 1 A slot with a round white piece with a diagonal slot across it. This piece comes up to about the height of the base of the pins. It has a metal shroud around the outside that is a little higher than the pins. This was the first one I recieved. 2 No slot but a plastic spike (the section across it is a semi cylinder), that is slightly taller than the pins, and it does NOT rotate. - has no shroud. This is the second I have received. 3 A slot with light colored piece that looks like a small hammer. The handle goes down into the slot and the top of the head is about the height of the pins. This is the one I have - it also has a shroud. Are these familiar to anyone? TIA Why not post a picture somewhere and send us the link. What are all the part number. > Why not post a picture somewhere and send us the link. What are all the part > number. Thank you Tiger. The one that is not working for me (# 1 in the above list) is at: http://catalog.worldpac.com/buymb/022406/quote.jsp?header=http://www.buymbparts. com/header.txt&footer=http://www.buymbparts.com/footer.txt&partner=buymb&year=19 83&product=M5050-32967&application=000016050&clientid=buymbparts&cookieid=2DQ0Z2 6Q02DR0W909H&baseurl=http://www.buymbparts.com/ Both switches are the same except the lower one is "after market." The upper one gives a good view and is the switch I have been working on. Click to enlarge. Notice the number at the base - 202 545 0104 and the MBZ star. The original part has the number 126 462 0093 at the base, and also with the MBZ star. In both cases the numbers are molded or stamped into the metal at the base. My Chassis and Body Manual manual for 123123, Vol 1 page 46.4-640/12 F3 shows the electric plug that attaches to the steering lock and the hole in that plug is semi circular. This is apparently the original one and the switch in that case has the semi-circular spike to fit that hole - # 2 on the above list of three. In my version that semi-circular hole became a slot to accomodate the "hammer-head" of the switch. BTW, how does one lubricate the steering lock mechanism. I have the lock part puffed up well with graphite. I know I could use machine oil or ATF. It seems that it does not come apart, so grease doesn't look an option. This afternoon I had an idea - to apply this ignition switch to the electrical plug, bypassing the steering lock etc. I used a big screwdriver to turn the switch to 1 and then tried the electrics - there was no change, so maybe the problem is not in the switch after all. I have already visited 5 grounds on the car and cleaned them up but none of them looked corroded More combing out of those circuits and not a job I relish. I'd much rather work on the engine. Have a great weekend :-) >>>> Replacement ignition switch will not have that hammer lock thing in >>>> the middle. Don't worry about that at all. Just put it on. [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > TIA Thank you Tiger. The one that is not working for me (# 1 in the above list) is at: http://catalog.worldpac.com/buymb/022406/quote.jsp?header=http://www.buymbparts. com/header.txt&footer=http://www.buymbparts.com/footer.txt&partner=buymb&year=19 83&product=M5050-32967&application=000016050&clientid=buymbparts&cookieid=2DQ0Z2 6Q02DR0W909H&baseurl=http://www.buymbparts.com/ Both switches are the same except the lower one is "after market." The upper one gives a good view and is the switch I have been working on. Click to enlarge. Notice the number at the base - 202 545 0104 and the MBZ star. The original part has the number 126 462 0093 at the base, and also with the MBZ star. In both cases the numbers are molded or stamped into the metal at the base. My Chassis and Body Manual manual for 123123, Vol 1 page 46.4-640/12 F3 shows the electric plug that attaches to the steering lock and the hole in that plug is semi circular. This is apparently the original one and the switch in that case has the semi-circular spike to fit that hole - # 2 on the above list of three. In my version that semi-circular hole became a slot to accomodate the "hammer-head" of the switch. BTW, how does one lubricate the steering lock mechanism. I have the lock part puffed up well with graphite. I know I could use machine oil or ATF. It seems that it does not come apart, so grease doesn't look an option. Have a great weekend :-) Alright RF... I am staring over with you. As for the ignition switch, the one they give you is the correct part. I punched in your part number and it came back to the exact same part you ordered. MB use the same switch for long long time until they went electronic. I am thinking... have you change the brake switch? The switch by the brake pedal? > Alright RF... I am staring over with you. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I am thinking... have you change the brake switch? The switch by the brake > pedal? Hey, thank you Tiger. Do you ever sleep? :-) No, I haven't rouched the brake pedal switch but I will investigate it very soon and will post the result - probably in the morning. > Alright RF... I am staring over with you. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I am thinking... have you change the brake switch? The switch by the brake > pedal? Hey, thank you Tiger. Do you ever sleep? :-) I removed the cable from the brake pedal switch and moved the ignition switch to 1, but it made no difference. I'll try some more troubleshooting tomorrow. >> Alright RF... I am staring over with you. >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > to 1, but it made no difference. I'll try some more troubleshooting > tomorrow. At long last, task completed. In the last few weeks I learned more about the car than I had in the previous ten years. After scouring the car looking for bad connections, especially grounded ones, I replaced the ignition switch and then solved the cylinder lock problem. The key would not turn because it could not go all the way in. The cylinder was about 1/16" too far out and neither it nor the key could turn. After much struggling, I eventually figured that the part, that the 2 short prongs of the cylinder lock was going into, was not the right place. I removed the cylinder lock again ( yeah, a dozen times) and I was able to rotate the part, that those two prongs fitted into, with a screwdriver. It was spring loaded and snapped into place. Then I reassembled and it worked just fine. The worst task in that job, by far, was removing and replacing the instrument cluster, especially connecting and disconnecting the speedometer cable and the oil pressure line. There is a clamp on that speedo cable in the engine compartment but it is so far down that loosening it would have to be done from underneath the car. If the clamp had been higher up, it could be temporarily disconnected to make the job much easier. Instead, removal and reinstallation, have to be done by working a hand and arm up under the left front corner of the dash and then in behind the cluster and finally a lot of struggling. There is not enough space for a hand if the cluster is in place, so it has to be held out an inch or two from where where it would normally be located. Not only that, but there are sharp edges and points in there too.To tighten the oil pipe a 10 mm wrench has to be used and in the small space it was very tricky. Fortunately, after getting it hand-tight, less than 1/4 of a turn with the wrench is enough to tighten it. Another problem was keeping the two thick pads that are in that area out of the way. Their purpose is probably for deadening the sound from the engine. Finally I took the little girl for a spin and we were both very happy :-) Thanks to all who contributed. RF So it was the ignition switch that was the problem? > So it was the ignition switch that was the problem? To be honest Tiger I am not sure, so I am keeping the original switch, just in case. I had played around so much and spent so much time installing and uninstalling the instrument cluster and the locks that I finally was too lazy to put back the old switch to do another test. At one point I did a quick test by clamping that old switch to its harness (hanging down under the steering - not attached to the lock) and used a broad screwdriver to turn the switch to position 2, where the brake lights and blinkers come on. I left it there, pressed the brake pedal and then checked the blinkers and all were ok. This suggests that the old switch is probably ok and my cleaning up the various contacts may well have been the cure. One of these years I may have another opportunity to try the old one again but I'd rather not. If I ever have to, I'll certainly get a new clamp on the engine for the speedometer cable, so that I can reach it from above. That would make it much easier to move the cluster in and out, by far the biggest task in working in the area behind it. Thanks again for your support. Mmm... ignition switch wears out... the position of the key detent and the ignition switch itself may not be aligned to ensure proper operation. I'd still suspect the ignition switch. You have to consider how old that switch is and how many cycles it has been through... it is bound to wear out. You are welcome. > Mmm... ignition switch wears out... the position of the key detent and the > ignition switch itself may not be aligned to ensure proper operation. I'd > still suspect the ignition switch. Probably is. > You have to consider how old that switch is and how many cycles it has been > through... it is bound to wear out. 24 years and 90,300 miles. I'd guess average trip about 10 miles- maybe 9,000 switch uses. > You are welcome. Thanks Tiger :-) RF schrieb: >> Mmm... ignition switch wears out... the position of the key detent and >> the ignition switch itself may not be aligned to ensure proper [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > 9,000 > switch uses. The switch should be brand new then. Only one problem is known widely with MB ignition keys: Driving around with a pound a of extra keys hanging down from the ignition key destroys key and tumbler. SignatureRoland Franzius > RF schrieb: >>> Mmm... ignition switch wears out... the position of the key detent [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > with MB ignition keys: Driving around with a pound a of extra keys > hanging down from the ignition key destroys key and tumbler. Thanks Roland - I sure missed your response. I am keeping the old switch, just in case. Your point about the heavy bundle of keys is well taken. I use just a single key. Until a couple of years ago I had two original keys with the original black leather wrappers and one was accidentally dumped (not by me. Grrrrr!!) and one I have mislaid. I had two copies made and I am using those at present. |
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