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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / September 2004

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w116 heater problem

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Bernard Farquart - 23 Sep 2004 07:08 GMT
Hello all,
I have a 1979 300sd, I get no heat out of the vents.
I feel the heater hoses are hot on one side of the nightmare
looking thing in the engine but not the other.
The vents operate well, blowing cold air in the proper
directions.
Is there any way to test that valve, short of replacing
it? Can I apply, or remove vacuum to it? Does anyone
know what color vacuum line to unhook to test?

It is starting to get cold up here in Seattle.

Thanks for any help you can give.

Bernard
Chet Hayes - 23 Sep 2004 14:02 GMT
> Hello all,
>  I have a 1979 300sd, I get no heat out of the vents.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Bernard

The valve your talking about is part of the climate control servo.
There is an electric motor in the servo that drives a gear assembly
from max heat in one direction to max cooling in the other.  Along the
way, various vacuum and electrical connections are closed or opened to
control the system and the valve is moved from fully open to closed.
The valve is not replaceable as a seperate unit.

If the system is behaving correctly except for heat, ie, moving the
temp to 85 sends air to the footwells with the blower stepping up to
high, moving it to 65 turns on the AC with air coming out the upper
vents as the blower slowly slows down then speeds up again, then the
servo is working.  Unless the valve has somehow become seperated
inside from the rest of the gear train, it has to be opening and
closing.

Is it possible the system is air locked?  I think that's unlikely,
however, according to the service manual, after refilling the cooling
system, it's recommended to manually run the little aux heater pump to
help get air out of the heater system.  That's the small pump that's
located close to the servo.  It's function is to pump water through
the heater core when the car is first started in cold weather to get
heat faster.  I've never bothered doing that and never had a problem,
but it's easy to do.  You just need to disconnect the pump connector
and directly connect it to 12Vs, paying attention to polarity so it
runs in the right direction.  Brown is ground.

As a next step, you could disconnect the hoses to the heater core and
try flushing it with water, to make sure there is free flow.  You
could also try verifying if water makes it through the two paths in
the servo valve.  With the ignition on and the temp set to 85, the
valve should be open.  You could connect a piece of heater hose and
try pouring water in to see if it runs out the other side of the valve
fittings.  Another simple test would be to bypass the hoses around the
valve temporarily, using two short nipples and hose clamps.

If it turns out you need a servo, I recommend getting one from
Performance Analysis in TN.  They have remanufactured ones that
replace the lower plastic housing with an aluminum one.  The plastic
cracking, leaking, and ruining the rest of the unit is one primary
mode of failure.
Bernard Farquart - 23 Sep 2004 15:18 GMT
Thanks, I now have a couple of things to look at.
I have a few fittings and hose pieces to bypass the valve,
as that was my first idea.

Bernard
T.G. Lambach - 24 Sep 2004 00:15 GMT
Ok. the blower works but there's no heat. I suggest you first do a test.
Run it in DEF mode. That simultaneously engages the A/C compressor and
full heat mode (to melt ice and defog the windows). If there's heat in
DEF the servo is probably OK and the logic board is suspect.

There could be one of two basic problems. The logic board or "amplifier"
could have a solder crack or the "servo" could be dead. The amplifier, a
black covered cigarette size pack device with wires connected to its
bottom) is located behind the glove box (remove the GB to get to it).
Its wire connector has nearly to be pried off. This device can be bought
on an exchange rebuilt basis for about $100. In my experience sudden
erratic behavior is a symptom of an "amplifier" malfunction.

When you shut off the engine do you hear the servo run for about five
seconds? (It's returning to its off position.) If so that's good, or at
least better than not, which suggests the servo is dead. The servo can
also be bought on an exchange rebuilt basis for about $500.

Of course there could be other causes - the temperature sensor, the
temperature setting wheel - but these are much less likely to be the
cause than the amplifier or the servo.

Don't bother calling a M-B dealer for these parts for the price will be
as much as you paid for the car!
Bernard Farquart - 27 Sep 2004 03:31 GMT
> Ok. the blower works but there's no heat. I suggest you first do a test.
> Run it in DEF mode. That simultaneously engages the A/C compressor and
> full heat mode (to melt ice and defog the windows). If there's heat in DEF
> the servo is probably OK and the logic board is suspect.

Nope, no heat at any time.

> There could be one of two basic problems. The logic board or "amplifier"
> could have a solder crack or the "servo" could be dead. The amplifier, a
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> least better than not, which suggests the servo is dead. The servo can
> also be bought on an exchange rebuilt basis for about $500.

I have not heard this, but will listen

> Of course there could be other causes - the temperature sensor, the
> temperature setting wheel - but these are much less likely to be the cause
> than the amplifier or the servo.

I am planning a dash tear-apart to look at those items.

Thanks for all replies!
Bernard
Tiger - 27 Sep 2004 04:03 GMT
Before you take your dash apart... this is major work...

Try this... look at the heater core nipples that you see in the engine
compartment... bypass the servo and hook them up to the engine water pump...
if you still feel no heat, then your heater core is plugged up because
someone put in the radiator fix thing that clogs everything up... you can
try backflushing to see if it works... rig it up to garden hose to clear it
out. Otherwise, you will have to replace the heater core.
T.G. Lambach - 28 Sep 2004 02:08 GMT
Before you tear into anything check the fuses. My '80 300SD had a dead
climate control and blower because two fuses were blown. That happened
after the electric auxiliary water pump, the small pump near the servo,
shorted out from coolant leaking into its motor.

I unplugged the auxiliary pump, replaced two fuses and the climate
control and blower worked perfectly.

The electric pump helps warm the cabin a bit quicker, in our mild
climate I really couldn't feel much difference with it, or without it.
Perhaps it matters in cold areas.

Always start a repair by first checking the simple things.
Chet Hayes - 28 Sep 2004 17:53 GMT
> Before you tear into anything check the fuses. My '80 300SD had a dead
> climate control and blower because two fuses were blown. That happened
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Always start a repair by first checking the simple things.

Did you find a good source for the aux water pump?  I had to replace
the original, which lasted 20 years.  Got one from Adsit Company.  It
stared leaking with a small drip in about 2 months.  They replaced it
under warranty.  Another month, that one has a very small drip too.
They replaced it again, 3 months later, that one had a small drip.
Since they wouldn't replace it again, I decided to just live with it
and see what happens, as it was really barely leaking.  Well, last
week I'm driving along, and all of a sudden I hear a grinding,
rattling sound.  Turns out the top bearing in the little motor is
shot, the shaft is just bouncing all around.

So, I need a new one, and I'm not gonna get it from Adsit.  Also, the
pump was running when the coolant was hot, which it shouldn't do.  I
have to take a look and see what turns it off, but as I recall there
is a cut off somewhere, so once the coolant is hot enough, it shuts
off.
 
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