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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / December 2004

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Yet another new old Mercedes Benz story...

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Kevin L. Bray - 14 Dec 2004 02:59 GMT
Hello to all once again, and Happy Holidays to you all.

I just returned home from a cross country drive in my new old '91 560SEL
with 166K miles.

I've been driving W126's since I was reintroduced to M-B sedans 4 years ago.
To date, I've had one '85 300SD (Old Gray) and two '86 300SDL's (Black Jack
and Jinx).  I love the diesels.....but the wife doesn't, especially our
latest that she named Jinx, for very good reasons, as it is the most unlucky
/ cursed car I've ever been associated with.  My mechanic even agrees.
(BTW, I'm going to sell it.  Comes with a spare engine and tranny
too....maybe it just needs a change of scenery).

I've learned alot about the diesels from this group.  Now that I've got this
big dog V-8, I have a few observations about my new addition to the family
and hopefully some of the resident experts will weigh in.

First, I flew from Texas to Conn. to pick the car up and drive approx. 2000
miles home.
I keep turning the key on and waiting for the glow plugs to get hot!  Ha!
Great handling car.  Much better than my '86.  Did they change the
suspension on these from the previous 126's?

Got upper 18's when driving properly.  As low as 16.7 when I was driving
like an idiot with two other M-B's between Louisville, KY and Nashville, TN
(we saw 100MPH often....lots of full throttle driving)  Do these numbers
sound right for highway driving?

The car has incredible power compared to my SDL.  But I did miss the economy
of the SDL on this trip.  Big time!

It runs real smooth, except at start up and idle.  It starts and idles like
it has some injection / ignition problem.  Feels rough.  The instant any
pressure is applied to the accelorator, it smooths out and runs great (to
me).

Also, there is some type of bumping noise / feeling from the rear end under
a hard acceleration from a stand still....just for a second.

This car (maybe all of the 91's) has heated seats.  The buttons for the
front seats are underneath the ashtray (bad design, considering ash tray /
cigarette lighters are often in use for cell phones, radar detectors, etc.)
with another button in the middle between them.  The symbol looks like an
old fashioned horn (best way to describe).  I did not get a manual with the
car.  What is that button?

Oh.  The Paint.  I've never seen this.  The clear coat is ruined.  And from
what I can see, it looks like a defect in the paint / clear coat.  It looks
like it is cracked, over the entire balance of the car.  It's not scratched
on the outside, but rather looks as if it was 'flexed' and cracked
internally.  'Crazing'?  Is this an accurate term, and is this a common
problem?  Was there a recall on these cars for paint / finish defects?

Typical rust bubles on the doors at the body panels, and on the trailing
edge of the rear fenders.  (Why do they always rust at the doors???)

The interior is absolutely cherry.  The only issue is the wood facia on the
ashtray has come off and I need to get some doublesided adhesive to
reattach.

Any common issues with these cars / drive trains?
Signature

Signed,

Kevin L. Bray
Cedar Park, Texas
'85 300SD
'86 300SDL (X2)
'91 560SEL

Kevin L. Bray - 14 Dec 2004 03:04 GMT
Bad form here, but I forgot two things the former owner told me.

First, the EGR (air pump?) has been removed / disabled?  Could this be the
rough idle / start?

Second, the exhaust has been modified .... he said the 'resonators' have
been bypassed?

Signature

Signed,

Kevin L. Bray
Cedar Park, Texas
'85 300SD
'86 300SDL (X2)
'91 560SEL

> Hello to all once again, and Happy Holidays to you all.
>
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
>
> Any common issues with these cars / drive trains?
W116 - 14 Dec 2004 10:41 GMT
In the W116, you could choose a two-toned horn as an option (Zweiklang
Fanfare. The button would than be to change between the electric horn
and the air-horn. I have no idea if this is the case in your W126, but
this is something you would never find out if you didn't flick the
switch while using your claxon.
Kevin L. Bray - 15 Dec 2004 04:17 GMT
I played with it today.  In one position, which I'll call 'on', the horn
works.  Not as robust as my SDL horn, but it works.  In the opposite
position, the horn does not work at all.

Thanks for the tip.

Signature

Signed,

Kevin L. Bray
Cedar Park, Texas
'85 300SD
'86 300SDL (X2)
'91 560SEL

> In the W116, you could choose a two-toned horn as an option (Zweiklang
> Fanfare. The button would than be to change between the electric horn
> and the air-horn. I have no idea if this is the case in your W126, but
> this is something you would never find out if you didn't flick the
> switch while using your claxon.
marlinspike - 15 Dec 2004 12:09 GMT
Check the fuses...other than that I'm sure there are other things to check,
I just don't know what they are.
Richard
> I played with it today.  In one position, which I'll call 'on', the horn
> works.  Not as robust as my SDL horn, but it works.  In the opposite
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> > this is something you would never find out if you didn't flick the
> > switch while using your claxon.
Richard - 16 Dec 2004 06:33 GMT
>In the W116, you could choose a two-toned horn as an option (Zweiklang
>Fanfare. The button would than be to change between the electric horn
>and the air-horn. I have no idea if this is the case in your W126, but
>this is something you would never find out if you didn't flick the
>switch while using your claxon.

Yes, 126 had this option: city/country horn. Very uncommon in US spec cars.

Signature

            Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org   | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Orkut:RS79   Classifieds: http://ads.mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE |    Watches list: http://watches.list.mbz.org

marlinspike - 14 Dec 2004 12:06 GMT
These cars have no EGR. What he was probably talking about was the thing
that pumps hot air into the engine when the engine is cold. It's just a bit
of enviromental stuff that does absolutely nothing other than warm the
engine up faster. No, it wouldn't cause your problems. Check the level of
the water in the battery cells believe it or not, and then check the fuel
mixture.
Richard
> Bad form here, but I forgot two things the former owner told me.
>
[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
> >
> > Any common issues with these cars / drive trains?
Kevin L. Bray - 15 Dec 2004 04:18 GMT
Thanks for the response.

So no EGR.  Do these come with an air pump?  That works is utilized only
when the car first is started?

Signature

Signed,

Kevin L. Bray
Cedar Park, Texas
'85 300SD
'86 300SDL (X2)
'91 560SEL

> These cars have no EGR. What he was probably talking about was the thing
> that pumps hot air into the engine when the engine is cold. It's just a
[quoted text clipped - 90 lines]
>> >
>> > Any common issues with these cars / drive trains?
marlinspike - 15 Dec 2004 12:08 GMT
Yeah, they do that. It's the pump I was talking about that pumps hot air
into the engine when the engine is cold (you know the little hose going to
the air filter housing, the one that has its own little square filter in the
housing? That is for this pump, so follow that little hose back to the pump
and if you see the belt has been taken off, that's how you know this was
what he was talking about). This pump was for emissions reasons (hot engines
bur cleaner than cold, so they wanted to get it hot as fast as possible),
but it's pretty darn useless and not worth replacing. As far as you are
concerned it changes nothing about the car other than on really cold days it
will take another minute or so to warm up.
Richard

> Thanks for the response.
>
[quoted text clipped - 95 lines]
> >> >
> >> > Any common issues with these cars / drive trains?
Kevin L. Bray - 16 Dec 2004 04:40 GMT
Thanks again.  The seller told me that it was not really necessary to have
the pump and that it was also an expensive fix.

He said something about resonators?  Some type of baffles on either side of
the underside of the car that the exhaust ran through to make it very quiet.
I assume they were bypassed because they were bad.  Are they pricey?

Signature

Thanks.

Kevin L. Bray
Cedar Park, Texas

> Yeah, they do that. It's the pump I was talking about that pumps hot air
> into the engine when the engine is cold (you know the little hose going to
[quoted text clipped - 124 lines]
> > >> >
> > >> > Any common issues with these cars / drive trains?
marlinspike - 16 Dec 2004 18:05 GMT
Yeah, that pump is VERY expensive and worthless. As far as resonators, they
are in the muffler. Some guys take them out for nicer sound (well, guys who
put on performace exhausts). I don't think it's possible to fix them without
getting a muffler, though if you decide to do the muffler remember that
there are aftermarket places better and cheaper than benz.
Richard
> Thanks again.  The seller told me that it was not really necessary to have
> the pump and that it was also an expensive fix.
[quoted text clipped - 151 lines]
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Any common issues with these cars / drive trains?
Richard - 16 Dec 2004 06:32 GMT
>Bad form here, but I forgot two things the former owner told me.
>
>First, the EGR (air pump?) has been removed / disabled?  Could this be the
>rough idle / start?

Not normall unless he botched it.

>Second, the exhaust has been modified .... he said the 'resonators' have
>been bypassed?

Yikes. The resonators are to smooth out the exhaust. The mufflers deaden the
sound. It's nor surprising it seems to run rough, this could do it (but
may not be the only culprit)

Signature

            Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org   | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Orkut:RS79   Classifieds: http://ads.mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE |    Watches list: http://watches.list.mbz.org

marlinspike - 16 Dec 2004 18:07 GMT
> >Second, the exhaust has been modified .... he said the 'resonators' have
> >been bypassed?
>
> Yikes. The resonators are to smooth out the exhaust. The mufflers deaden the
> sound. It's nor surprising it seems to run rough, this could do it (but
> may not be the only culprit)

Yeah, but you don't need them. I think his rough idle is more of an
injection or ignition or maybe timing thing.
Richard
marlinspike - 14 Dec 2004 12:09 GMT
> It runs real smooth, except at start up and idle.  It starts and idles like
> it has some injection / ignition problem.  Feels rough.  The instant any
> pressure is applied to the accelorator, it smooths out and runs great (to
> me).

This has happened with my 380 3 times over the last 18 years, and could be
the result of any number of things.

> Also, there is some type of bumping noise / feeling from the rear end under
> a hard acceleration from a stand still....just for a second.

Bumping or vibration?

> This car (maybe all of the 91's) has heated seats.  The buttons for the
> front seats are underneath the ashtray (bad design, considering ash tray /
> cigarette lighters are often in use for cell phones, radar detectors, etc.)
> with another button in the middle between them.  The symbol looks like an
> old fashioned horn (best way to describe).  I did not get a manual with the
> car.  What is that button?

Probably the country/city horn switch.

> Oh.  The Paint.  I've never seen this.  The clear coat is ruined.  And from
> what I can see, it looks like a defect in the paint / clear coat.  It looks
> like it is cracked, over the entire balance of the car.  It's not scratched
> on the outside, but rather looks as if it was 'flexed' and cracked
> internally.  'Crazing'?  Is this an accurate term, and is this a common
> problem?  Was there a recall on these cars for paint / finish defects?

Sounds  a bit bad for a 91...must have been parked outside all it's life.

> Typical rust bubles on the doors at the body panels, and on the trailing
> edge of the rear fenders.  (Why do they always rust at the doors???)

No idea, but get that taken care of, you don't want the rust to spread.

> The interior is absolutely cherry.  The only issue is the wood facia on the
> ashtray has come off and I need to get some doublesided adhesive to
> reattach.
Kevin L. Bray - 15 Dec 2004 04:23 GMT
>> It runs real smooth, except at start up and idle.  It starts and idles
> like
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Bumping or vibration?

It bumps, under hard accelerating from a stand still.  You can feel the car
pitch back as it takes off and you can feel the 'bumping' behind you.  Let
off the gas pedal and the bump goes away.  Once you're up and going, you can
floor it and not get the same bump.  I think it's related to the car
pitching back and 'squatting' down in the rear under fast starts.

>> This car (maybe all of the 91's) has heated seats.  The buttons for the
>> front seats are underneath the ashtray (bad design, considering ash tray
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Probably the country/city horn switch.

I think you're right, except on my new old car, it's actually acting as a
on/off switch.  One mode does not seem to work.

>> Oh.  The Paint.  I've never seen this.  The clear coat is ruined.  And
> from
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Sounds  a bit bad for a 91...must have been parked outside all it's life.

I believe it's bad for any Mercedes I've ever known.  It is a one
owner/family car, that was garage kept according to the previous owner.  Who
knows?

>> Typical rust bubles on the doors at the body panels, and on the trailing
>> edge of the rear fenders.  (Why do they always rust at the doors???)
>
> No idea, but get that taken care of, you don't want the rust to spread.

I say that because this is my 4th W126, and they all rust at the doors.
Funny thing is, the only one of them I've purchases that lived it's entire
life south of the Mason-Dixon line with no road salts is the car that had
the worst rust on the doors.

>> The interior is absolutely cherry.  The only issue is the wood facia on
> the
>> ashtray has come off and I need to get some doublesided adhesive to
>> reattach.
Richard - 16 Dec 2004 06:35 GMT
>It bumps, under hard accelerating from a stand still.  You can feel the car
>pitch back as it takes off and you can feel the 'bumping' behind you.  Let
>off the gas pedal and the bump goes away.  Once you're up and going, you can
>floor it and not get the same bump.  I think it's related to the car
>pitching back and 'squatting' down in the rear under fast starts.

Mine did that until I changed the diff mount. Big ole hunk of rubber. At
this age most of the rubber needs replacing - I've changed most of
mine out with only shock pads and thrist rods to do. It make a BIG
difference, with new rubber the ride is indistinguishable from a car
20 years newer.

Signature

            Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org   | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Orkut:RS79   Classifieds: http://ads.mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE |    Watches list: http://watches.list.mbz.org

Kevin L. Bray - 19 Dec 2004 22:19 GMT
I've gotten the car into the mechanic.  He drove the car about 30 feet and
stopped the car and said that the motor mount was broken.  The bumping in
the back was due to the engine raising up in the front.  Sure enough, he
popped the hood open, put it in drive, stood on the brake, and pressed the
gas pedal.  The motor mount on the driver's side is broken, and the engine
raised up about 6-8".

I'm going to have him change both and the transmission mount as well.

> >It bumps, under hard accelerating from a stand still.  You can feel the
> >car
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> difference, with new rubber the ride is indistinguishable from a car
> 20 years newer.
Al - 14 Dec 2004 19:20 GMT
The horn: the horn button gives a choice of 2 sounds city and country
The 1991 has heated seats for front and back seats with 2 temps 2
lights is the warmest it will cut back from 2 to 1 then off automatically

Mileage is about correct
Use contact cement to adhere the wood just remember with contact cement
there is no adjustment so get the position right

The clunk in the back is probably a suspension component problem 3-400
Check the hydropneumatic fluid level near the front of the engine
on the drivers side use the correct fluid only from MB

Real rough idle could be injectors or any number of sensors
Have you checked the spark plugs and wires
These are the best Mercedes  try to get the best specimen/cost ratio
and you will love it
Paint: maybe it was resprayed with a new clear coat
Al

> Hello to all once again, and Happy Holidays to you all.
>
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
>
> Any common issues with these cars / drive trains?
Kevin L. Bray - 15 Dec 2004 04:28 GMT
The seats are great.  It was cold here today/tonight and I quite enjoyed the
heaters.

After reading the replies, I played with that horn switch.  I think I may
have a problem based on what I've read, because the horn works in one
position and does not work at all in the other.

> The horn: the horn button gives a choice of 2 sounds city and country
> The 1991 has heated seats for front and back seats with 2 temps 2
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Use contact cement to adhere the wood just remember with contact cement
> there is no adjustment so get the position right
I've already repaired today with a good double sided adhesive.

> The clunk in the back is probably a suspension component problem 3-400
> Check the hydropneumatic fluid level near the front of the engine
> on the drivers side use the correct fluid only from MB

Ok.  I'm very interested in this.  What is 'component prblem 3-400' mean?
I'm delivering the vehicle to my mechanic later this week so I'll get him to
look at all fluids...

> Real rough idle could be injectors or any number of sensors
> Have you checked the spark plugs and wires

Haven't checked anything yet.  Will do though, or my mechanic will.

> These are the best Mercedes  try to get the best specimen/cost ratio
> and you will love it

It seems to be an awesome vehicle.

> Paint: maybe it was resprayed with a new clear coat

One owner/family car that was garage kept so I was told.  Original, factory
paint.  This defect is over the entire painted surface.

Signature

Signed,

Kevin L. Bray
Cedar Park, Texas
'85 300SD
'86 300SDL (X2)
'91 560SEL

> Al
>
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
>>
>> Any common issues with these cars / drive trains?
Al - 14 Dec 2004 19:20 GMT
> Hello to all once again, and Happy Holidays to you all.
>
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
>
> Any common issues with these cars / drive trains?
Martin Joseph - 15 Dec 2004 06:53 GMT
> Hello to all once again, and Happy Holidays to you all.
>
> I just returned home from a cross country drive in my new old '91
> 560SEL with 166K miles.

You flew from Texas to connecticut to buy a car?  That seems rather
insane to me.

They use road salt back east,  so your new car is going to be a lot
rustier then one from arizona or california.

I grew up in Buffalo NY and would NEVER buy a car from back east.  I
live in Seattle now,  and there are a lot of cherry rust free older
cars rolling around here.
Kevin L. Bray - 16 Dec 2004 04:38 GMT
It was not my intention to buy a car up north with road salts.  The burgundy
interior called out to me.  I'm glad I got it, as the interior on this 13
year old car is flawless in my opinion.  The rust bubbles is something I'll
just have to get corrected.  I had the car up on a lift today and I honestly
don't see rust underneath in areas I've had on my other cars.  The bottom of
the doors inside the door jam area are in perfect shape too.

> > Hello to all once again, and Happy Holidays to you all.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> live in Seattle now,  and there are a lot of cherry rust free older
> cars rolling around here.
Martin Joseph - 16 Dec 2004 07:15 GMT
> It was not my intention to buy a car up north with road salts.  The burgundy
> interior called out to me.  I'm glad I got it, as the interior on this 13
> year old car is flawless in my opinion.  The rust bubbles is something I'll
> just have to get corrected.  I had the car up on a lift today and I honestly
> don't see rust underneath in areas I've had on my other cars.  The bottom of
> the doors inside the door jam area are in perfect shape too.

That's good,  I didn't mean to rain on your parade,  but going from
Texas to Connecticut freaked me out a bit  ;~)
Kevin L. Bray - 19 Dec 2004 22:23 GMT
Yeah.  Dallas & surrounding areas are typically a great concentration of
good M-B used cars.  There just wasn't anything listed on autotrader and/or
the papers.  That would have been allot easier a drive!

>> It was not my intention to buy a car up north with road salts.  The
>> burgundy
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> That's good,  I didn't mean to rain on your parade,  but going from Texas
> to Connecticut freaked me out a bit  ;~)
 
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