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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / March 2005

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Don't lose sleep over your Bekker Grand Prix Radio!

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Peter - 09 Feb 2005 22:37 GMT
Your Grand Prix tape/radio was created at a time before the word "Digital"
was in our vocabulary. It's radio is poor by today's standards, and nobody
makes cassette tape anymore or listens to tape anymore. Merceders-Benz would
be hard pressed to find a customer who would spend over $100K and who
listens to music at home  from cassettes. The first compact disc was
introduced over 20 years ago by Sony-Billy Joel's "52nd Street". All the
developed nations of the world listen to music from compact disc. There are
still Mercedes owners out there who are afraid to replace the antiquated
speakers and tape radio in their prized automobile. The radio can be removed
in under five minutes, and the speakers within ten. All aftermarket speakers
are four ohm impedance and match the speaker outputs on the cd head unit
perfectly. You may shake your head and wonder why a brand new Benz comes
with a cassette deck in the dash! The only answer is greed. After spending
huge money for a new E-Class or S-Class, the salesman offers you the option
of paying absurd money for a cd changer which should have come with the car!
It is not illegal in this lifetime to replace your antiquated,
poor-sounding, tape/radio and speakers with a digital cd player which
produces sparkling clear music of your choice. You wouldn't replace your
tires with tires from 1986 would you? P.
Guenter Scholz - 11 Feb 2005 02:31 GMT
well Peter, you couldn't be more wrong!

let me count the ways:

1) cassettes are WAY! more robust than a CD
2) Cassettes don't skip
3) casettes are very cheap
4) the fidelity of cassettes is more than required in a car
5) casettes are easier to insert etc
6) the impedance of a speaker (4m 6 or 8 ohm) has squat to do with anything
7) cassette players don't get stolen as readily
8) I've got lot's of cassettes which I'm not about to replace
9) I bet you couldn't even tell the difference between the two formats
  in a normal car environment.

10) want more??

>Your Grand Prix tape/radio was created at a time before the word "Digital"
>was in our vocabulary. It's radio is poor by today's standards, and nobody
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>produces sparkling clear music of your choice. You wouldn't replace your
>tires with tires from 1986 would you? P.
thomcasey@gmail.com - 09 Mar 2005 18:51 GMT
I would have to disagree with you.

1.   CD's can handle Water
2.   CD's have much better frequency response
3.   CD's are much cleaner sound and sttic free
4.   You do not have to worry about buildup on the head like a tape
5.   Cd's are just as easy to insert
6.   Impedance DOES matter.  My becker sounded much stronger when the
speakers were replaced with good 4 ohm models.
7.   Only cheap CD players skip anymore, even those are rare.
8.   The difference is easy to tell, it goes back to clarity and
frequence response
9.   Oh, yea.  CD's do not wear out nor do they require rewinding for
your favorite song.
10.  Who would steal old technology, except a Yugo owner.

The only issue I have found is replacing the screwed up size speakers
in my 1989 300E.  Just under 5" in front, just over 5" in back.  Found
the best way was to build templates to allow 3.5" or 4" in the dash and
rear deck, then add a sub in the trunk, ported into the cabin via the
area under the Medical kit.  Less than $400.00 and you can have sound
better than any standard system.
Richard Sexton - 11 Feb 2005 05:24 GMT
>produces sparkling clear music of your choice. You wouldn't replace your
>tires with tires from 1986 would you? P.

Some would. A scary number. I've had this 633 for 2 years now and I've noticed
a few differences between bmw and mb owners:

BMW owners:
could care less about oil
will argue for days about wax
want every part to be a BMW Motorsports part (or equiv)

MB owners
could care less about wax
can argue for days about oil
want every part to be original

But to answer your original question: why do you think Coker tire
is still around? You want state of the art 1986 Michelen XWX ? You
can get 'em. Never mind that the MXV4 is the modern equivalent
(according to John Olson).

Signature

            Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org   | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wristwatches http://watches.list.mbz.org

Martin Joseph - 11 Feb 2005 18:16 GMT
> B owners
> could care less about wax
True,
> can argue for days about oil
Also true,

> want every part to be original
Not me,  I try to find a US made equivalent for everything...

Marty
marlinspike - 12 Feb 2005 04:18 GMT
> But to answer your original question: why do you think Coker tire
> is still around? You want state of the art 1986 Michelen XWX ? You
> can get 'em. Never mind that the MXV4 is the modern equivalent
> (according to John Olson).

If I could afford the XWX I'd get em, because they don't make the MXV4 in
205/70-14 any more and the XWX is the best tire in that size. Instead I'll
have to settle on Firestone until I can afford new wheels.
Richard
Richard Sexton - 12 Feb 2005 16:37 GMT
>> But to answer your original question: why do you think Coker tire
>> is still around? You want state of the art 1986 Michelen XWX ? You
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>If I could afford the XWX I'd get em, because they don't make the MXV4 in
>205/70-14 any more

They don't ? Uh-oh.

I have 14, 15 and 16" wheels for my 126. The stock 14's are hopless and
tires in 14" are becoming a rarity now thaty even Hondas have 16" wheels.

The 15s are nicer, but the 16's - woah! No less comfortable and my god do
they make the car handle.

Signature

            Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org   | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wristwatches http://watches.list.mbz.org

Norseman - 08 Mar 2005 21:38 GMT
Also:

99% of all radio transmissions are analog. Where does the "BEFORE THE WORD
DIGITAL " entered the vocabulary come in to the picture?
The Becker radio/cassette player in my -99 E class DOES have a digital
tuner, which by the way receives ANALOG signals.
The Becker tuners are world famous for excellent reception and good noise
suppression.
AND they are not outdated by ANY standards.
I have yet to play a cassette though :-)

Steinar
Dori A Schmetterling - 09 Mar 2005 10:29 GMT
At last somebody says something positive about the Merc-supplied radios.
They are also supposed to be very robust, which is why Merc has been using
them for decades.

They may not always have the fancy knobs, bells and whistles of other brands
but for most people that's fine.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[...]
> The Becker tuners are world famous for excellent reception and good noise
> suppression.
> AND they are not outdated by ANY standards.
> I have yet to play a cassette though :-)
>
> Steinar
Dori A Schmetterling - 09 Mar 2005 19:46 GMT
However, the original exchanges are about whether an old radio should be
replaced.  I can't see the very original post, though.

Nothing wrong with putting a newer Becker...

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

> At last somebody says something positive about the Merc-supplied radios.
> They are also supposed to be very robust, which is why Merc has been using
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>>
>> Steinar
thomcasey@gmail.com - 09 Mar 2005 19:50 GMT
True, but a a more economical route would be an aftermarket unit.  You
can even order one with an adapter that will plug right up to the stock
wiring.  You will get more for your money going aftermarket.  Of
course, that doesn't apply to just Becker, but all OEM systems.

> However, the original exchanges are about whether an old radio should be
> replaced.  I can't see the very original post, though.
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> >>
> >> Steinar
greek_philosophizer - 10 Mar 2005 19:03 GMT
> Also:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Steinar

     and I would suggest that all things being equal
analog is superior to digital.

.

Signature

Nothing is the way it is because that is the way it has to be.

1 HP = 745.69987158227022 Watts
1 PS = 735.49875          Watts

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm  - Current national
debt
On 11/02/2004  the National Debt was  $7,429,582,471,118.88
On 02/24/2005  the National Debt was  $7,717,009,809,507.08 , up 288
billion in the 3 months and 22 days since the last Presidential election.

http://www.ips-dc.org        - The nation’s oldest multi-issue
progressive think tank.

http://brookings.edu         - Writing, and speaking about the major
challenges and opportunities facing the United States and the world.

http://www.carnegieendowment.org -  Dedicated to advancing cooperation
between nations and promoting active international engagement by the
United States.

http://www.cannabisnews.com  - Stay abreast of marijuana news.

http://www.norml.com         - Support marijuana legalization by
becoming a member of NORML.

http://www.mpp.org           - Support marijuana legalization by
becoming a member of MPP.

http://narconews.com         - Learn about the South of the Border drug
war.

FOUR MORE YEARS to a 10 trillion dollar national debt! (
$10,000,000,000,000.00 )!

FOUR MORE YEARS until 20% of the federal budget is interest payments on
the debt!

.

Richard Sexton - 10 Mar 2005 19:38 GMT
>      and I would suggest that all things being equal
>analog is superior to digital.

http://thebear.org/essays2.html#anchor506008

If you own a tie-dye t-shirt you may recognize the author.

Signature

            Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org   | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wristwatches http://watches.list.mbz.org

greek_philosophizer - 10 Mar 2005 22:47 GMT
>>     and I would suggest that all things being equal
>>analog is superior to digital.

> http://thebear.org/essays2.html#anchor506008

> If you own a tie-dye t-shirt you may recognize the author.

   I do and I do.

   He is giving a lecture at psytopia. That could be interesting.

.

.

Signature

Nothing is the way it is because that is the way it has to be.

1 HP = 745.69987158227022 Watts
1 PS = 735.49875          Watts

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm  - Current national
debt
On 11/02/2004  the National Debt was  $7,429,582,471,118.88
On 02/24/2005  the National Debt was  $7,717,009,809,507.08 , up 288
billion in the 3 months and 22 days since the last Presidential election.

http://www.ips-dc.org        - The nation’s oldest multi-issue
progressive think tank.

http://brookings.edu         - Writing, and speaking about the major
challenges and opportunities facing the United States and the world.

http://www.carnegieendowment.org -  Dedicated to advancing cooperation
between nations and promoting active international engagement by the
United States.

http://www.cannabisnews.com  - Stay abreast of marijuana news.

http://www.norml.com         - Support marijuana legalization by
becoming a member of NORML.

http://www.mpp.org           - Support marijuana legalization by
becoming a member of MPP.

http://narconews.com         - Learn about the South of the Border drug
war.

FOUR MORE YEARS to a 10 trillion dollar national debt! (
$10,000,000,000,000.00 )!

FOUR MORE YEARS until 20% of the federal budget is interest payments on
the debt!

.

Martin Joseph - 11 Mar 2005 06:43 GMT
>> and I would suggest that all things being equal
>> analog is superior to digital.
>
> http://thebear.org/essays2.html#anchor506008
>
> If you own a tie-dye t-shirt you may recognize the author.

There is some real big time stupidity on that page...  
Richard Sexton - 11 Mar 2005 15:20 GMT
>>> and I would suggest that all things being equal
>>> analog is superior to digital.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>There is some real big time stupidity on that page...  

No sh.t. He's a right cranky old bugger too.

Signature

            Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org   | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wristwatches http://watches.list.mbz.org

greek_philosophizer - 11 Mar 2005 23:02 GMT
>>>>and I would suggest that all things being equal
>>>>analog is superior to digital.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> No sh.t. He's a right cranky old bugger too.

    That is not nice.

Signature

Nothing is the way it is because that is the way it has to be.

1 HP = 745.69987158227022 Watts
1 PS = 735.49875          Watts

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm  - Current national
debt
On 11/02/2004  the National Debt was  $7,429,582,471,118.88
On 02/24/2005  the National Debt was  $7,717,009,809,507.08 , up 288
billion in the 3 months and 22 days since the last Presidential election.

http://www.ips-dc.org        - The nation’s oldest multi-issue
progressive think tank.

http://brookings.edu         - Writing, and speaking about the major
challenges and opportunities facing the United States and the world.

http://www.carnegieendowment.org -  Dedicated to advancing cooperation
between nations and promoting active international engagement by the
United States.

http://www.cannabisnews.com  - Stay abreast of marijuana news.

http://www.norml.com         - Support marijuana legalization by
becoming a member of NORML.

http://www.mpp.org           - Support marijuana legalization by
becoming a member of MPP.

http://narconews.com         - Learn about the South of the Border drug
war.

FOUR MORE YEARS to a 10 trillion dollar national debt! (
$10,000,000,000,000.00 )!

FOUR MORE YEARS until 20% of the federal budget is interest payments on
the debt!

.

Dori A Schmetterling - 12 Mar 2005 17:27 GMT
Go on, then, who is he?  Just now I finally managed to make the link work
and get to the page.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[...]

>> No sh.t. He's a right cranky old bugger too.
>
>     That is not nice.
Richard Sexton - 12 Mar 2005 17:36 GMT
Google Augustus Stanley Owsley III.

Much that is written about him is inaccurate however..

Signature

            Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org   | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wristwatches http://watches.list.mbz.org

William P.N. Smith - 13 Mar 2005 16:07 GMT
>Much that is written about him is inaccurate however..

Including your praise of him?  8*)
greek_philosophizer - 13 Mar 2005 16:44 GMT
>>Much that is written about him is inaccurate however..

 > Including your praise of him?  8*)

    I am not an expert but many refer to him with awe.

.

Signature

Nothing is the way it is because that is the way it has to be.

1 HP = 745.69987158227022 Watts
1 PS = 735.49875          Watts

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm  - Current national
debt
On 11/02/2004  the National Debt was  $7,429,582,471,118.88
On 02/24/2005  the National Debt was  $7,717,009,809,507.08 , up 288
billion in the 3 months and 22 days since the last Presidential election.

http://www.ips-dc.org        - The nation’s oldest multi-issue
progressive think tank.

http://brookings.edu         - Writing, and speaking about the major
challenges and opportunities facing the United States and the world.

http://www.carnegieendowment.org -  Dedicated to advancing cooperation
between nations and promoting active international engagement by the
United States.

http://www.cannabisnews.com  - Stay abreast of marijuana news.

http://www.norml.com         - Support marijuana legalization by
becoming a member of NORML.

http://www.mpp.org           - Support marijuana legalization by
becoming a member of MPP.

http://narconews.com         - Learn about the South of the Border drug
war.

FOUR MORE YEARS to a 10 trillion dollar national debt! (
$10,000,000,000,000.00 )!

FOUR MORE YEARS until 20% of the federal budget is interest payments on
the debt!

.

William P.N. Smith - 14 Mar 2005 03:21 GMT
>     I am not an expert but many refer to him with awe.

Yea, but is is just some awe, or are they full of awe?

"He's Awe-Some!"
"No, he's Awe-Full!"

8*)
Richard Sexton - 13 Mar 2005 18:26 GMT
>>Much that is written about him is inaccurate however..
>
>Including your praise of him?  8*)

Heh. I dunno. He's a fascinating character and right about some t
things, let's put it that way.

Signature

            Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
http://www.mbz.org   | Mercedes Mailing lists: http://lists.mbz.org
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | Killies, killi.net, Crypts, aquaria.net
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Old wristwatches http://watches.list.mbz.org

Dori A Schmetterling - 13 Mar 2005 16:18 GMT
Thanks.  I did.  Well, I never...

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

> Google Augustus Stanley Owsley III.
>
> Much that is written about him is inaccurate however..
[...]
greek_philosophizer - 13 Mar 2005 16:46 GMT
> Thanks.  I did.  Well, I never...

    But the Beatles did and that was good music!

    John Lennon had a 600 Limo I think.

.

Signature

Nothing is the way it is because that is the way it has to be.

1 HP = 745.69987158227022 Watts
1 PS = 735.49875          Watts

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm  - Current national
debt
On 11/02/2004  the National Debt was  $7,429,582,471,118.88
On 02/24/2005  the National Debt was  $7,717,009,809,507.08 , up 288
billion in the 3 months and 22 days since the last Presidential election.

http://www.ips-dc.org        - The nation’s oldest multi-issue
progressive think tank.

http://brookings.edu         - Writing, and speaking about the major
challenges and opportunities facing the United States and the world.

http://www.carnegieendowment.org -  Dedicated to advancing cooperation
between nations and promoting active international engagement by the
United States.

http://www.cannabisnews.com  - Stay abreast of marijuana news.

http://www.norml.com         - Support marijuana legalization by
becoming a member of NORML.

http://www.mpp.org           - Support marijuana legalization by
becoming a member of MPP.

http://narconews.com         - Learn about the South of the Border drug
war.

FOUR MORE YEARS to a 10 trillion dollar national debt! (
$10,000,000,000,000.00 )!

FOUR MORE YEARS until 20% of the federal budget is interest payments on
the debt!

.

Dori A Schmetterling - 13 Mar 2005 17:30 GMT
"Well, I never..." ...knew that!

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[..]

>     But the Beatles did and that was good music!
>
>     John Lennon had a 600 Limo I think.
[...]
 
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