'85 300CD

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Steve - 25 Feb 2005 19:25 GMT

I am looking at a 1985 300CD to buy. The car is super clean with just
over a hundred thousand on it. I believe it is over priced as the guy
wants $6K for it but maybe I'm off. Anybody have an opinion
Thanks,
Steve

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Richard Sexton - 25 Feb 2005 20:31 GMT

>I am looking at a 1985 300CD to buy. The car is super clean with just
>over a hundred thousand on it. I believe it is over priced as the guy
>wants $6K for it but maybe I'm off. Anybody have an opinion
>Thanks,
>Steve

Condition condition condition... The porice is high but not if it's utterly flawless
(which few old cars are. $3500 if it's just "good". MB or not it's still a 20 year old
car and needs ALL the rubber replaced; insulation on wires has or will crack etc
etc.

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jav - 25 Feb 2005 21:20 GMT

Four years ago I sold my 1980 BMW 528i for $6900, certainly well above
market price. However it had 62,000 miles, original paint, service records,
excellent interior and ran well. And I had another buyer in the wings.
It's all in the condition.

>I am looking at a 1985 300CD to buy. The car is super clean with just over
>a hundred thousand on it. I believe it is over priced as the guy wants $6K
>for it but maybe I'm off. Anybody have an opinion
> Thanks,
> Steve

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T.G. Lambach - 25 Feb 2005 21:32 GMT

Quality costs money.

The car has low miles and is very clean. Great!

It's probably a one owner car.

So how does one justify paying a premium for perceived quality?

Does the paint look like the car was garaged for most of its
(non-driven) lifetime?

Does the seller have a complete maintenance history that you can review?

Clean CarFax?

Finally, what are YOUR intentions? Will you keep this car for say, five
years? Longer? The longer you realistically expect to keep such a car
the easier it is to justify paying a premium for quality.

The CD model is cute and a nice car if you don't need to use its back
seat and don't need full headroom. Nice car for one or two, otherwise a
sedan is preferable. Same power train in each.

I use this mathematical formula to judge a car vs. similar cars (insert
your own values):

( equation assumes the engine & transmission have a 275,000 mile useful
life before overhaul )

Cost per remaining mile = [ (Cost - scrap) / (275,000 - miles done) ]

[(6000 - 1000) /
(275000 - 100000) ] = .02857 / mile

Insurance companies will immediately "total" an old car, regardless of
its condition. So its up to you to avoid being "rolled" by being able to
justify its premium value with records, pictures, comparable sales of
similar mileage cars etc. They'll pay if a premium is warranted. Keep
this in mind if you buy it.

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Steve - 25 Feb 2005 22:16 GMT

Thanks for the info T.G.

> Quality costs money.

I'll difinately agree, but only to a point.

> The car has low miles and is very clean. Great!
> It's probably a one owner car.

Yep.

> So how does one justify paying a premium for perceived quality?
> Does the paint look like the car was garaged for most of its
> (non-driven) lifetime?

It really does look flawless. I may need to go back with a magnifying
glass, but I couldn't find a single scratch inside or out. There is
some black paint chipped off the undercarriage and the exhause is a bit
rusty but no sign of sheet metal cancer not even by the battery.

> Does the seller have a complete maintenance history that you can review?

Not complete, but some.

> Clean CarFax?

Yep.

> Finally, what are YOUR intentions? Will you keep this car for say, five
> years? Longer? The longer you realistically expect to keep such a car
> the easier it is to justify paying a premium for quality.

Agreed. I have had other 123's and currently have a '77 300D with ~275k
on it. I need another one to pound miles on for a longish commute.

> The CD model is cute and a nice car if you don't need to use its back
> seat and don't need full headroom. Nice car for one or two, otherwise a
> sedan is preferable. Same power train in each.

Hmm. I didn't actually notice the available head room in it. I'm 6'2"
so I'll definately have another look see on that. And no kids or
regular passengers so the back seat is not a big deal.

> I use this mathematical formula to judge a car vs. similar cars (insert
> your own values):
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> [(6000 - 1000) / (275000
> - 100000) ] = .02857 / mile

Cool. I just haven't seen any of this era's 300's without being high
milage. At only 100k it seems low milage to me.

> Insurance companies will immediately "total" an old car, regardless of
> its condition. So its up to you to avoid being "rolled" by being able to
> justify its premium value with records, pictures, comparable sales of
> similar mileage cars etc. They'll pay if a premium is warranted. Keep
> this in mind if you buy it.

Great tips

Cheers,
Steve

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Richard Sexton - 25 Feb 2005 23:41 GMT

>It really does look flawless.

It wasn't even flawles when it was new. You are in love with the car,
bye bye objectivity.

>I may need to go back with a magnifying glass, but I couldn't find
>a single scratch inside or out.

Scratches are meaninless. Engine compression, motor mouts, transmission
vacuum, halfshat wear are meaningful.

>There is
>some black paint chipped off the undercarriage and the exhause is a bit
>rusty but no sign of sheet metal cancer not even by the battery.

Boom, $2000 in exhaust work right there. Take a magnet. These things rust.

At this age all the rubber should have been replaced. What percent has
been done? Diff mount, trans mout, spring pads, motor mounts, flex disk
and bnearing carrier, trailing arm mounts and on and on...

$1500.

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Steve - 26 Feb 2005 00:23 GMT

>>It really does look flawless.
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> $1500.

I've had four of these cars over the past twenty years and I've gone
thru repairs on nearly everything you've noted plus much much more. No,
I'm not in love with the car and that's why I'm doing research first
thank you very much. At the prices you quote you must be a dealer.
Anyone paying $2000 for an exhaust on one of these is being bent over a
barrel. I've had two exhaust systems replaced from the header back. I
don't believe the moulding rubber has been replaced but I could be
wrong. It is not cracked or hard at all. Why do you think it has to be
solely based on age? Maybe you're used to seeing cars from Arizona or
So. Cal. that are subjected to the heat. The plastic around the
headlights is still crystal clear too. I'm trying to be objective here.
I KNOW this is a nice car but I'm just trying to collect opinions on
it's selling price. And no, scratches in the paint don't indicate the
mechanical condition of the vehicle but they do give an indication of
the care the car has received over the years. Meaningless to you,
maybe. All things said, thanks for the response.
Steve

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Central Florida - 26 Feb 2005 02:44 GMT

>>> ...scratches in the paint don't indicate the mechanical condition of the

vehicle but they do give an indication of the care the car has received over
the years. Meaningless to you, maybe. All things said, thanks for the
response. <<<<

Well said, Steve. Sometimes, people forget there are other indicators of
value. And No, all of the rubber does not have to be replaced just because
it is a certain number of years old. Care is what matters. I can show you
cars that are only a few years old and are absolute sh.t.

Larry
In the back yard, under the oak.

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Richard Sexton - 26 Feb 2005 03:34 GMT

>Well said, Steve. Sometimes, people forget there are other indicators of
>value. And No, all of the rubber does not have to be replaced just because
>it is a certain number of years old.

Rubber ages through heat, UV and just plain old time. If you think your
20 year old suspension rubber is as compliant as new you owe it to yourself
to replace it and see the difference.

Rubber brake hoses have date codes for a reason.

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Richard Sexton - 26 Feb 2005 03:31 GMT

>I've had four of these cars over the past twenty years and I've gone
>thru repairs on nearly everything you've noted plus much much more. No,
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>maybe. All things said, thanks for the response.
>Steve

Ok I'm confused. You know all about these cars and have replaced everything
and are looking at a car that may need everything but is pretty so
you think it's worth a lot of money.

Of coure you can do exhaust cheaply but the average joe takes it in to
a shop and pays out the nose. What do youtell the seller? "Oh I can fix
that cheap by shopping around and doing the work myself" or "huh,
needs exhaust soon, $2K". Frankly I don't think he's being honest with you
telling you a 20 year old 123 is worth 6K so you need ammo to get it down
to a realistic figure.

It's worth whatever he/she can get for it. Not a penny more not a penny
less. If I was gonna spend 6K on a 123 coupe I'd want to see the Pebble
Beach concours trophey.

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Roger Shoaf - 26 Feb 2005 02:55 GMT

> I am looking at a 1985 300CD to buy. The car is super clean with just
> over a hundred thousand on it. I believe it is over priced as the guy
> wants $6K for it but maybe I'm off. Anybody have an opinion
> Thanks,
> Steve

Look at other cars you can buy for that money and compare. If it is a stand
up sample of the car and you like it, how big a mistake can you make?

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Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

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Steve - 01 Mar 2005 19:08 GMT

Thanks for all of the input. I made a lesser offer ($5k) and told him
if he changes his mind to let me know. If he can peddle it for $6k then
good for him. If not, $5k is still a premium price but I feel it is a
premium example of this years model. We shall see.
Steve

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Joel Johnson - 02 Mar 2005 14:39 GMT

For what its worth, I just bought an '82 SD that had 76k one owner,
meticulously maitained miles. I paid $6,500 and am delighted with the car. I
have an '83 with 350+ miles. And I do love the old SD and plan to drive this
one for years to come. Regarding replacing all rubber, etc. if the car has
benn regularly serviced and maintained, most of all those parts would
already have been replaced.

> Thanks for all of the input. I made a lesser offer ($5k) and told him if
> he changes his mind to let me know. If he can peddle it for $6k then good
> for him. If not, $5k is still a premium price but I feel it is a premium
> example of this years model. We shall see.
> Steve

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Joel Johnson - 02 Mar 2005 14:45 GMT

correction: It had 67K miles, not 76.

> For what its worth, I just bought an '82 SD that had 76k one owner,
> meticulously maitained miles. I paid $6,500 and am delighted with the car.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>> premium example of this years model. We shall see.
>> Steve

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Richard Sexton - 02 Mar 2005 16:07 GMT

>For what its worth, I just bought an '82 SD that had 76k one owner,
>meticulously maitained miles. I paid $6,500 and am delighted with the car. I
>have an '83 with 350+ miles. And I do love the old SD and plan to drive this
>one for years to come. Regarding replacing all rubber, etc. if the car has
>benn regularly serviced and maintained, most of all those parts would
>already have been replaced.

Probably not. You have to be pretty anal to replace thigns like spring pads,
but it does make a difference. If you want it to ride like the day it did when
it left the factory then every mount, bushing, pad and do-hicky has to
be in the same condition as when it left the factorty, ie, new.

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