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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / March 2005

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Chucking out electronics - Merc leads way?

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Dori A Schmetterling - 17 Mar 2005 11:27 GMT
Will we see car reliability rise?

http://www.viamichelin.com/viamichelin/gbr/tpl/mag4/art20050301/htm/tech_panne_e
lectronique.htm


DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

Electronic breakdowns

By L. Meillaud

Although the cars of today are generally much more reliable, their high
technological content can sometimes generate breakdowns. Since they are
electronic, these breakdowns are more difficult to diagnose and lead to
complications in the after-sales area. But manufacturers are aware of the
problem.

     ? Delphi
     The electronics share will exceed 30% of the cost price by 2010.
Although the integration of electronics dates back to the early 1980s, this
phenomenon has become increasingly apparent in recent years. Nowadays, cars
contain an average of 40 onboard computers. These are needed to operate the
equipment for safety (ABS, airbags, ESP), comfort (air conditioning,
automatic windscreen wipers, automatic headlight activation, navigation) and
entertainment (sound system). However, overzealous manufacturers have gone
too far, integrating an ever-increasing number of software packages and
sensors with the result that bugs have appeared, just as they have in
personal computers. But you can't always start a car again like you can
reboot a PC, in which case it remains stranded on the roadside. Inexplicable
breakdowns can also occur and never happen again. All these little problems
(a car that no longer starts, an electronic key card that no longer opens
the doors) have contributed towards damaging the image of the automobile
industry and, in particular, the image of certain top-of-the-range
manufacturers who had got into the habit of offering an ever-increasing
number of innovations. Mercedes has thus decided to react by getting rid of
600 electronic components in its cars.

Autosar: an initiative to make electronics more reliable
At the same time, German manufacturers and some parts manufacturers have
decided to develop a common electronic architecture together. The work is
being carried out within the framework of the Autosar* consortium and the
aim is to define common standards for basic components, in the knowledge
that the manufacturer maintains ultimate control of the software. In this
way, the automobile industry hopes to be able to make the electronic content
of vehicles reliable. In any case, going back is out of the question.
Without electronics, it would not now be possible to satisfy European
standards with respect to safety and the environment. Engineers are
therefore looking into multiplexing (a process which enables several streams
of information to be transmitted by the same electric wires) and the
communication networks of the future. Although vehicle data is now
transmitted via the Can** network, the arrival of new standards must be
anticipated, in particular for multimedia and by-wire applications where
hydraulic circuits are replaced by electric wires (braking, steering,
suspension).

Awaiting the arrival of remote diagnosis...

     ? Bosch
     Repair mechanics are increasingly well equipped to repair modern cars.
Meanwhile, garage mechanics are having to tackle electronic breakdowns in
the field. They are now equipped with diagnosis devices that are connected
directly under the bonnet. As on a computer, they search for the fault,
which is signalled by a computer code. Once the problem has been located, it
is just a question of downloading new software or reprogramming the
computer. Naturally, these are operations that only repair mechanics are
authorised to carry out. Some manufacturers, such as Peugeot and Citro?n,
have even developed technological platforms where an operator can give
remote guidance to the repair mechanic or take action on the vehicle
themselves if necessary. In order to definitively reconcile drivers with
electronics, the automobile industry is counting heavily on remote
diagnosis. Thanks to an onboard modem, cars in the future will be able to
forewarn manufacturers of a risk of breakdown. Then all they need to do is
direct the client to the nearest garage in order to repair the faulty
component before the breakdown occurs. A dream that is about to become
reality...

* Automotive Open System Architecture
** Controlled Area Network: network through which information related to the
engine, passenger compartment and body is transmitted.
Des - 17 Mar 2005 15:46 GMT
>Will we see car reliability rise?
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Electronic breakdowns
<etc.>

See, this is what happened to my car, I believe.  (Not that "posessed
by demons" is completely ruled out.)  Whether it's because of some
sensor that got wet, or simply a computer glitch, after they charged
the battery that had run down, and put the car on the Star diagnosis,
and cleared all the codes, the weird behavior went away.  Actually,
the car got "better" in that the electric driver's seat worked better
than it had in a while, moving more quickly (at least that's my
impression) and to full range.  (Since I am petite and my husband is
tall, it's an important detail to us.)  Also, the radio and climate
control is working properly.  So far.

~Des
Dori A Schmetterling - 17 Mar 2005 18:32 GMT
I saw your earlier post (E320 1998) and before I got to the end I did think
of the smart-aleck reply "ghosts" but you thought of it anyway, I noticed
:-)

An experienced technician at my (almost) local Merc service station has
commented about the increasing problems with increasing electronics and
motors.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[...]

> See, this is what happened to my car, I believe.  (Not that "posessed
> by demons" is completely ruled out.)  Whether it's because of some
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> ~Des
Engineer - 20 Mar 2005 01:23 GMT
>I saw your earlier post (E320 1998) and before I got to the end I did
>think of the smart-aleck reply "ghosts" but you thought of it anyway,
>I noticed :-)

(snip)

Oh, dear... I've got one of these... (1998 E320)

Not entirely happy with the electrics.  On very cold days, often long
after starting and warming up, the "fuel tank low" flasher comes on,
even though he needle and actual fuel level is way up.  To fix it, I
have to stop, park, switch off engine (key fully to the left), and
then restart.

Also, randomly the ventilating fan speeds up to full for just a second
or two then drops to proper speed.  Very odd!  BTW, I had to have this
fan replaced recently (67,000 km) due to a failure of the controller
output DC driver transistor - I'm told you can't buy it separately.
Cost = arm and a leg!  Value of transistor: 50 cents, but not sold
separately.  Does anyone want a perfect fan unit? (Motor, fanwheel and
housing.)  Email me at:  "analogdino 'at' rogers 'dot' com"
For those keeping score, would I buy another MB? Sorry, no (and I've
driven them for 15 years.)

Cheers,
Roger
Toronto, Canada.

> An experienced technician at my (almost) local Merc service station
> has commented about the increasing problems with increasing
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>>
>> ~Des
greek_philosophizer - 20 Mar 2005 15:25 GMT
>   BTW, I had to have this
> fan replaced recently (67,000 km) due to a failure of the controller
> output DC driver transistor - I'm told you can't buy it separately.
> Cost = arm and a leg!  Value of transistor: 50 cents, but not sold
> separately.

     Someday when a bulb burns out we will have to replace the car.

.

Signature

Nothing is the way it is because that is the way it has to be.

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1 PS = 735.49875          Watts

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.

pool man - 21 Mar 2005 03:49 GMT
and you wonder what the next smart bomb is going to hit.

BEEMER

         OR

the MB <oops> CHRYSLER look a likes

AM only please with the WONDER BAR
<any body recall those>?

the case, minus a few cans!
T.G. Lambach - 18 Mar 2005 04:59 GMT
Sunday's NY Times had an article about all the antennas that upscale
cars carry. It's a wonder (to me) that all this stuff works at all!

Their example is an S Class M-B which can carry up to 18 antennas!

AM-FM Radio - in the windshield
Radar cruise control - in the grill
Keyless Go - an antenna in each door and the console
Satellite Radio - in roof
Navigation & Cellphone (combined) above rear window
Tire Pressure Monitor - one at each wheel + spare
Emergency notification system & GPS - left rear bumper + left rear door
Parktronic - inside bumpers
TV in roof panel

The higher the technology the greater the obsolescence (and depreciation).

As these cars age the DIY owner won't need wrenches but rather an
electrical engineering degree!
 
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