I know this is a Mercedes auto forum but I need some advice on a 240D in a
marine application. We just purchased our boat with a marinized 240D. We
were told that engine is a fresh rebuild with 10 hours but on the way down
to south FLorida we burned about a quart of oil every 4 hours. No major
leaks anywhere and the engine sounds good. Plenty of power but alot of oil
consumption. Any ideas? I am wondering if the engine was properly broke in
and if the rings are seated, Thanks JAB
Conrad - 04 Apr 2005 01:11 GMT
> I know this is a Mercedes auto forum but I need some advice on a 240D in a
> marine application. We just purchased our boat with a marinized 240D. We
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> consumption. Any ideas? I am wondering if the engine was properly broke in
> and if the rings are seated, Thanks JAB
This sounds majorly wrong - broken in or not, this is roughly
equivalent to 3 or so days of highway driving draining all the
oil from the car - which is well, did I say majorly wrong?
I suspect, while being a total land-lubber, that there is a
universal truth here - used boat salesmen are just nautical
used car salesmen. You mentioned Florida - not that it matters,
but at least there is some press covering Florida and boating
lemon laws - but it's not real encouraging.
http://www.boatus.com/consumer/art3.asp
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQK/is_2_9/ai_114604627
The other universal truth may be this - not any old machine
shop can properly rebuild the MB diesels - in fact, has ANYONE
out there had a positive rebuild experience on one of the
diesel engines? I've heard a ton of scary stories. Is anyone
doing it right?
Best of luck - I'd try the BBB, your attorney, and lots of
letters to any Florida legislators you can think of. The good
news is that you can still find these engines in "gently used"
condition in vehicles that have suffered some degree of body
trauma - so all is not lost.
Conrad
dougmcp@gmail.com - 04 Apr 2005 03:16 GMT
The engine isn't properly "broke in" at 10 hours. A marine application
is a hard (constant load) situation for a newly rebuilt motor. Sounds
like the rings have not seated and may not seat at all without another
teardown to find out why. Without a compression test it's pretty hard
to speculate here. Have a good diesel mechanic (MB or other) have a
look and try and ascertain the problem if there even is one.
T.G. Lambach - 04 Apr 2005 04:37 GMT
An auto engine will use lube oil when it's driven hard. Automotive
diesels are high speed diesels whereas most marine diesels are
relatively low speed engines due to their constant speed use. Marine use
is substantially different from automotive use - marine use is almost
always constant speed and often at lower than designed engine operating
temperature.
IMHO, this little 76 HP high speed diesel engine should not be run at
constant speed above say 70% or max 75% of its maximum RPM (I don't know
the 240D maximum load rpm, say it's 4,500 rpm) then 70% is 3,150 rpm and
80% is 3,375 rpm.
These engines are designed to run at 80 degrees C. or about 175 degrees
F.; be sure it's running at that temperature.
A compression check will confirm the engine's internal condition better
than anything else short of disassembly.
New car break in used to be about 2,000 miles of VARIED driving. At say,
a 30 mph average, that's about 67 hours of running, not 10 hours of
marine use.
If it were my engine I'd use Diesel grade SAE 20-50 oil - don't use gas
engine oils.
Ernie Sparks - 04 Apr 2005 05:18 GMT
Have a friend who put a used 4-cyl MB diesel in his 40-ft trimaran and it
worked out beautifully. Only problem was the hardest part to get to on his
installation was the starter. Guess what gave him fits?
Anyway, a rebuilt engine will take some break in but stationary diesels are
broken in running at constant speeds and I'm told this is preferable to
variable rpms. A diesel of any make, certainly one of the bullet-proof
240Ds, should work fine. I'd have the compression checked both "wet" and
"dry". A mechanic will know how to do this on your engine.
On gasoline engines you remove all of the spark plugs and check the
compression of each cylinder. On diesels you remove either the injectors or
glow plugs. After each cylinder has been checked and the psi written down,
do the same again. However, this time put two or three "squirts" of oil in
each cylinder and see if the compression increases measurably. Be sure to
inject oil in the individual cylinder you're getting ready to check, not all
of them at the same time. Doing so will force a lot of the oil out the
injector port.
The reason you do this is that the oil will temporarily seal any leaking
rings and sometimes leaking valves. However, in a rebuild any compression
loss will almost certainly be rings.
As far as engine oil is concerned don't use 20-50 unless it is recommended
for diesels. This is normally reserved for engines with a lot of wear. The
preferred oil is 15-40 such as that offered by Chevron. Although the
viscosity is slightly less when the engine is at operating temperature, it
is designed for more stressful conditions, such as a diesel.
Good luck!
Conrad - 05 Apr 2005 00:53 GMT
> Have a friend who put a used 4-cyl MB diesel in his 40-ft trimaran and it
> worked out beautifully. Only problem was the hardest part to get to on his
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Good luck!
Just had one other thought - even if you get great compression
readings on a compression test, it's still possible that the
rebuilders did poor (or no) work on the valve guides. A good
compression reading indicates that the piston/rings are sealing
the combustion chamber at the bottom, and that the valves are
sealing against the valve seat - but bad valve guides will still
cause you to lose oil.
I still contend that regardless of the usage, steady rpm
marine use, or cruising up I-95, that this is WAY too much oil
to be losing.
Conrad
Ernie Sparks - 05 Apr 2005 06:03 GMT
No argument about that. The oil consumption is way to high. Intake valve
guides/seals are a good place to look. You can sometimes determine if this
is the problem during a throttle-down situation. I'd rev the engine as high
as you feel comfortable with and then fully depress the "stop" lever. Don't
know if you get the same results as with a gasoline engine but blue smoke
should exit the exhaust if you're drawing engine oil past the guides.
I know that on my 240D if I just get in and immediately crank the cold
engine without waiting for a glow plug warm up, blue smoke will exit the
exhaust....all that unburned diesel fuel. Same with engine oil.
pool man - 05 Apr 2005 22:05 GMT
there are no throttle plates so it will not pull much of a vacuum
shutting down.
when this is done with a gas car the plates close and a great vacuum is
created between the throttle plates and the cylinders.<valve guides been
in the middle>
that is why trucks can use a jake brake
<engine compression> because they are full intake flowing and the jake
brake cuts off the exhaust.
BUT i could be wrong
the case, minus a few cans!
Tom Matsoukas - 05 Apr 2005 23:18 GMT
>> Have a friend who put a used 4-cyl MB diesel in his 40-ft trimaran and it
>> worked out beautifully. Only problem was the hardest part to get to on
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>
> Conrad
Tom Matsoukas - 05 Apr 2005 23:27 GMT
Thanks everyone for the excellent feedback! We did a C-check and discovered
very weak pressures in all cylinders. When we checked blow-by and blocked
off the crankcase vent we got massive oil geyser out of the dipstick tube.
Along with the oil came many small chunks of metal. My guess is that a oil
ring or two gave way. At any rate I am in the market for a reman short
block. Any leads on good sources would be appreciated. Thanks, JAB
>I know this is a Mercedes auto forum but I need some advice on a 240D in a
>marine application. We just purchased our boat with a marinized 240D. We
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>consumption. Any ideas? I am wondering if the engine was properly broke in
>and if the rings are seated, Thanks JAB
T.G. Lambach - 06 Apr 2005 02:11 GMT
See: http://www.mercedesengines.net/
Martin Joseph - 06 Apr 2005 18:55 GMT
> See: http://www.mercedesengines.net/
Wow! They charge twice as much for a shortblock, as I paid for a whole
car with an excellent engine...
I would recommend finding a good running car with some body damage or rust...
Marty
Into the living sea of waking dreams - 07 Apr 2005 16:19 GMT
> I know this is a Mercedes auto forum but I need some advice on a 240D in a
> marine application. We just purchased our boat with a marinized 240D. We
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> consumption. Any ideas? I am wondering if the engine was properly broke in
> and if the rings are seated, Thanks JAB
there is a 240d motor on e-bay
ngines & Components > Complete Engines
Mercedes Diesel Motor~150k miles~240D~1975~RUNS~4 cyl em number:
7966508345
J.
Martin Joseph - 08 Apr 2005 18:41 GMT
>> I know this is a Mercedes auto forum but I need some advice on a 240D
>> in a marine application. We just purchased our boat with a marinized
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> ngines & Components > Complete Engines
> Mercedes Diesel Motor~150k miles~240D~1975~RUNS~4 cyl em number: 7966508345
Don't buy an engine on EBAY! You can't see it or hear it run! Unless
you are collecting blown motors that is.
Marty