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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / April 2005Am I stupid for being loyal to MB?
I had a 2001 C320 wagon that was an electrical nightmare. It was in the shop over 60 days in three years. Window auto close malfunction. Several bulbs blowing out prematurely. Air bag sensor malfunction - several times. Voice recognition malfunctioning on and off for 2 years - Never fixed Seat / steering wheel / mirror memory problems 10 plus visits -Never fixed Wood trim coming off (dash & shifter area) 4 visits Heater vent problems 3 visits Gas gauge malfunction. Cargo area cover unlatching. 2 visits Cargo area seal leaking - never fixed Driver door seal leaking 2 times and Never fixed. Hatchback not latching for several visits. Steering wheel grinding problems Fog lamp ?fogging on two occasions. Floor mats latch broke. Sway bushings went bad Lower control arm went bad. Mass flow sensor had to be replaced Mirror reverse problems. Key malfunction Seatbelt jamming 3 visits Window trim leaking 2 visits Hatchback trim leaking 2 visits Doors rattling 3 visits - never fixed Dash rattling 5 visits (every time they "fix" it, the rattle "moves" to another spot) -Never fixed. Cup holder breaks 3 visits Back seats not latching 2 visits Ceiling panel loose in cargo area SOS malfunction on several occasions (they found nothing even after the dash read "see repair shop") Replaced rear window washer fluid pump. The car stickered for $48,000, and was leased for 39 months. ------------- MBUSA agreed that the car was a joke, and met me half way on getting out of the car at 30 months. I lost a few grand, but was glad to be rid of it. To keep me in the fold the dealership gave me a "deal" on a new car. ------------ Now I drive a 2004 E320 wagon that stickers for close to $65,000 with all the "goodies" in it. I bought it new in August 2004. The hands free phone / voice recognition has never worked properly. It has been in the shop over 6 times trying to get this fixed. MB tech rep got involved. They have replaced the phone 5 times, the phone module two times, the navigation module one time, and adjusted and reconnected various antennas. The Sirius satellite system "cuts out". This is related to the "optical ring" that connects all the audio components and cellphone together. still no fix after numerous visits to the dealer. The CD player and regular radio are plagued by this fault too. It sucks on a 45 minute commute to not be able to listen to the radio or a CD. This is why I bought the upgraded stereo and satellite system in the first place. All the audio issues are still not fixed. handheld phone locked up even when out of car. replaced several times. The dash vent rattles. replaced part twice. The passenger door locking system "clunked" when cold. This was a faulty locking mechanism. It took almost a month for the part to to come from Germany. Window closing got out of sync. Cargo area cover malfunctioned. Repaired twice. Third row seat ;latch malfunctioned. replaced. Middle row seat back not latching properly. Slamming seat caused plastic to break. Sensotronic brakes recall Sensotronic pump vibrates the steering wheel and brake pedals when it pumps up. loud noise and very noticeable vibration. seat memory issues. upgraded software. rubber seal around cargo area door leaks. being replaced this week. light in cargo area blew out. not yet fixed... this weeks visit. ---------------- I can "almost" live with everything but the sound system / phone issues. I am at a loss as to what to do, and feel that the "repairs" will not permanently fix the issues. I have the factory warranty on the car, and bought the extended one for 7 years 100,000...BUT the extended one DOES NOT cover any radio parts! Should I cut my losses and jump brands? Am I getting individually bad cars? Should i believe the articles I read in magazines about MB worldwide having huge quality issues and not being able to handle them? I paid good money for this car. I believed that perhaps the C class was not a "real' Benz, and that stepping up to the E Class would fix my quality woes. Am I just unlucky? Do all owners of later year models have this type of problem on a regular basis. my staff laugh at me since I have a loaner car every few weeks. They tell me I should buy a Honda since their old cheap cars don't give them anywhere near as much trouble as my new Benz does. i am loath to go the legal route since I already know that that will be a losing proposition. I put all but $30,000 down cash on this $64,400 car. The $30,000 is financed through MB credit. 6 months in I am obviously looking at depreciation. I think my next step will be to talk with the service manager. What to do? any suggestions (realistic ones) thanks, Rich How are your state's lemon laws.. Sounds to me like you may have a case.. Get your money back and find another make.. Clearly MB quality is lacking and so is dealer service..  Signature73 Hank WD5JFR >I had a 2001 C320 wagon that was an electrical nightmare. It was in the > shop over 60 days in three years. [quoted text clipped - 159 lines] > > Rich > I put all but $30,000 down cash on this $64,400 car. The $30,000 is > financed through MB credit. 6 months in I am obviously looking at > depreciation. I think my next step will be to talk with the service > manager. > > What to do? Get the manager involved. Make a lot of noise. MB is in bad shape right now. I would hold off 2-3 years before buying a new model. It's a car, not rolling perfection. Most of your "problems" are with the gadgets, not the underlying machine. Buy a Lexus if you want gadgets, they do a better job in that area (but can't solve delayed acceleration problems). I've owned M-B for 25 years and yes, there's occasionally a love - hate relationship with the M-B "ownership experience" due, I believe, to the mechanical (now electronic) machine not living up to OUR expectations (hyped in part by the price and by advertising). This runs in cycles - a good experience and we feel good followed by a bad experience and we curse the car, the dealer and then ourselves - for not buying a Toyota or Honda or Lexus etc. But we get over it and drive on. I'm debating whether to buy a new S-Class model next year knowing it will be "tempremental" and need extra fixing both in the beginning and later on or buy another, more proven, E-Class car because it's somewhat simpler and therefore probably more reliable. Gadgets' "maintenance overhead" significantly outweighs their "benefits," in my opinion, and I don't want to spend my time having the cruise control radar, seat memory etc. fixed - it's just not a priority. > Should I cut my losses and jump brands? If you want a modern luxury-class car - go Lexus. Test drive one and you won't go back. > > Should I cut my losses and jump brands? > > If you want a modern luxury-class car - go Lexus. Test drive one and > you won't go back. Lexus is renown for its reliability. However, as far as class and prestige is concerned. MB & BMW will still win hands down (I think) > Lexus is renown for its reliability. However, as far as class and prestige > is concerned. MB & BMW will still win hands down (I think) Have you tried a Lexus test drive? Stupid is a bit harsh, misguided might be a little better way of putting it. I would bail out on my 95 S320 but have to repair a long list of items before anyone would consider purchasing it. I've recently replaced the A/C evaporator, 2 of 3 coils, O2 sensor, wire harness (this is where I found that MB show NO LOYALTY to its customers), and trans cooler line. Left to do are rebuild transmission (slips like mad in reverse), both vacuum pumps (locking and pull down assist), drivers seat gear, and a couple of dash lights. In my opinion MB has lost its edge because it cut corners to compete with the Japanese models, I have a feeling the class and prestiege are on their way out as well... I've come to realize that whole "superior German engineering" thing is something of the past. My next car will be an Acura or Lexus Bob 95 S320 with ~70K miles and lots of quality issues >> Should I cut my losses and jump brands? > >If you want a modern luxury-class car - go Lexus. Test drive one and >you won't go back. Oops, forgot to list the fuel pressure regulator I just changed and the upshift delay controler that still needs to be replaced!! >Stupid is a bit harsh, misguided might be a little better way of >putting it. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Bob 95 S320 with ~70K miles and lots of quality issues Wow! That is quite a list of problems for a car that sells for $48K. If I were in your shoes I'd be looking elsewhere. I think the saying "fool me once, shame on you but fool me twice, shame on me" applies. Steve >Wow! That is quite a list of problems for a car that sells for $48K. >If I were in your shoes I'd be looking elsewhere. > >I think the saying "fool me once, shame on you but fool me >twice, shame on me" applies. The 2001 was the first year of the model in the US. I have a similar 2002 C320 Wagon which has been almost entirely trouble-free. So, while he may have a lemon, it may not be representative of current cars. (Then, again, mine may not be representative either!) Kal Hmmm ... whut to say frum under tha bridge ... luv driving my junk heap S klass. Of course down here in Florida and the Key West place, it has been a bit warm with broken air. But that is the price for driving REAL CLASS! And the other problems ... ah well. Next fall will compare the new Rexus from Japan with the new MB from Shrimp land and maybe even the Caddy from ... er ... well ... frum up North. Have a feeling the winner will not be the German Kar! And yes - you are nuts for driving that junk pile. Definition of crazy is doing the same thing which results in bad things and then doing it again and expecting different results! mcbrue lookingforshrinksly under the bridge in the trailer down by the river 96 S420 Hey McBrue Boy you must be under a good bridge for the water not to flooded you as out. Signature73 Hank WD5JFR > Hmmm ... whut to say frum under tha bridge ... luv driving my junk heap > S klass. Of course down here in Florida and the Key West place, it has [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > 96 S420 And my 2001 CLK Cab has been pretty good (sorry to those who have read this before...), but then it was quite a long way down the production period. And my service dealers have been pretty good. I now use a fairly recently-established one that has no sales dept attached so that there is no temptation to walk round the showroom... DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- >>Wow! That is quite a list of problems for a car that sells for $48K. >>If I were in your shoes I'd be looking elsewhere. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Kal > And my service dealers have been pretty good. I now use a fairly > recently-established one that has no sales dept attached so that there is no > temptation to walk round the showroom... Which is what they need in the USA... . I sympathise with you Rich! I had the following posted elsewhere and got some pretty agro responses from, I'm guessing, some club members here in Australia. "Spent some time on the weekend driving a 1984 MB 280E. I've driven a few of these and other Mercs of similar vintage (my father, after 30 years of updating new cars after a 4 year lease decided bugger it and pissed off his Audi S3 and replaced it with a 1980 450 SLC). For a living, I get to drive just about all of the latest Mercs - last month saw me driving some pretty exotic cars like the latest E55 Komp., ML500, C200K, SLK 32 AMG etc etc. I consider myself very f.cking lucky to be able to play with cars like these, but this old 280E has just made plain the following; Mercs used to be developed by engineers, who were given a brief (to design the best car to do this/that/the other). Once the engineers had done their bit, it was then up to the beancounters to work out how much to charge for it in order to make a profit. The current method is the exact opposite; the marketing dept tell the engineers they need to develop this model to sell for this price with these frivolous bells and whistles and the work stops once the budget is reached. This old 280E was probably double the price of its nearest competitor back in 1984, but the depth of quality and solidity of this car after travelling 249,000km is typical of the era; it still feels like the entire car was chiselled out of a huge chunk of steel! Back in 1989, a 190E 2.0litre producing 80 odd KW with wind-up windows, basic radio, no ABS brakes cost $AUD60,000. The equivalent car today (C180 kompressor) comes with 8 airbags, stability control, 7-speaker CD, electric seats etc etc and retails for $AUD57,000. There must be something missing under all those fashionable acronyms. This car is no safer/better built/good to drive than just about any other car (a poverty BA Falcon comes to mind), and in 20 years will be a rattly old banger. I don't blame MB for this, it's just that people (customers) will no longer pay for something they can't see, and unfortunately, real quality (in depth, not just soft touch plastics!) falls in to this category. I love cars and I love Mercs, but as an ownership experience, it will more than likely end in tears. Tis a shame." Don't change brands, and a Lexus (as good as they are) won't appeal if you agree cars can actually have soul; get an older, well maintained classic (with a decent sound system!!) It's odd going back to driving older cars at first, but I guarentee it will restore your faith. Simon. Yes, some of you make good points... Yes it is the "gadgets" that are going wrong...not the drivability of the car (unless you count the fact that the car was dropped off on this Wednesday and I just received a call telling me "could we keep it over the weekend?"). However a car stickering for almost $65,000 should not be in the shop 17 days in it's first 6 months... I would find that unacceptable in a Toyota, VW or anything else. My wife's 5 year old VW has been in the shop once in the last two years for anything other than routine service. Yes... some of you tell me it is simply a car...but it is a pain iin the a.s of a car. It does not work the way it is supposed to. Yes... some of you have cars that work, but I think there is a reason MB slipped to # 28 in quality satisfaction... it is not jus me. Yes... some of you have older "real" Benz's that work properly... but the past couple of years has not produced any "real" Benz's at least as far as I can see and read. The dealer is polite and tries to put on a smiling face, but obviously cannot make up for the 17 (and climbing as of today) days that I drove a loaner without my personal Cell phone (had to stay in the car since it was suspected in problems), left my EZ pass in the car, did without navigation on trips, did not have garage door opener in rain or snow, did not have decent sound system, drove a dinky c240 without 4matic in snow, did without third row seats when I needed them, left my kid's car seats in car because I thought they would keep the car for ONE day (guess again!). Maybe some of you guys on this board are retired and don't need all this stuff, but those of us who own and run businesses, need to drive around with our phones, EZ pass, navigation, etc. to be able to do our job. Not being able to be reached by cell phone for 5 days is not good for a business owner who goes out into the field! So today they call me to tell me that they are going to pull the entire fiber optic wire harness out of my car and replace it...should I be worried? Will this lead to more problems? They have had the car since Wednesday, and today (Fri) they tell me they need it at least over the weekend, until parts come in, and that my car is apart in pieces in the shop right now. I should go buy a Kia ..drive it for two years and then throw it away... I would be ahead of the game in money and then never have to care about repairs. Too bad I actually thought paying more money would get me more! I guess that adage only works in the world outside Mercedes Benz. Check out these sites they will show you some interesting facts on MB quality issues... actually scary how bad they actually are: http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/breaking/breakingnewsarticle.asp?feed=OB R&Date=20050406&ID=4352333 The least reliable cars include the S class E class, and the c class http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/08/pf/autos/cr_auto_reliability/ http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0501/13/autos-58190.htm http://www.wintonsworld.com/cars/carnews/carnews-2004/mercedes-profits.ht ml 73 problems per 100 cars...sounds like a good grade?... not! http://autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/article/which_vehicles_hold_up.htm l http://www.detnews.com/2002/insiders/0202/26/insider-426466.htm http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/31/Autos/mercedes_recall.reut/index.htm?cnn= yes http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Articles/articleId=105280 http://www.mbspy.com/mbquality.htm http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=105304 http://www2.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=4258 http://news.ft.com/cms/s/322bf6f8-8ead-11d9-8aae-00000e2511c8.html http://www.lemonlawspecialists.com/lemonlaw_autonews/article3.html http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/6662/ http://www.mercedesproblems.com/ http://www.troublebenz.com/ trouble on the other side of Daimlerchrysler too http://daimlerchryslervehicleproblems.com/ Maybe I should have read these articles BEFORE I bought two mercedes! I've said it before and I'll say it again , I remember when you purchased a MB , bottom of the line or the most expensive model they produced you had a quality ownership experience. You were ASSURED of having a quality trouble free vehicle that you could be take pride in. A car that was as good or better then anything on the planet . They were always expensive as hell , but you felt like you were buying the BEST. I can't understand what the hell happened to this company . After the buyout , the knee jerk reaction was that quality was going to go downhill , and it seems like that is exactly what happened . Oh well , it's a just a car.......... -Dana > Check out these sites they will show you some interesting facts on MB > quality issues... actually scary how bad they actually are: [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Maybe I should have read these articles BEFORE I bought two mercedes! If you're talking about Chrysler I have to tell you that top Daimler-Benz management has, before that, wasted enormous amounts of time on excursions into household goods and aerospace. Apparently upset the MB car management rather. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > happened to this company . After the buyout , the knee jerk reaction was > that quality was going to go downhill , and it seems like that is exactly > what happened . Oh well , it's a just a car.......... [...] a car gets you from point A to point B. you should not need to plan your trip with dealers service centers in mind the case, minus a few cans! I've got one word: Lexus. >I had a 2001 C320 wagon that was an electrical nightmare. It was in the > shop over 60 days in three years. [quoted text clipped - 159 lines] > > Rich That was five words. |
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