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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / August 2006New 1984 300SD
Hi, Just bought a 1984 300SD MB with 120,000 miles, all records down to purchase day, even original invoice for $41,000, private party, old man drove it and maintained it, no rust, everything works, guy sold it needed money asap. Test drove it - drives like a dream, woderful car. Bought it for under $5,000. Besides your usual valve adjustment, oil and lube, etc., what else would you do RIGHT NOW on this car to make sure it lasts? Thanks, Mia Congratulations on your purchase and for waiting to find the "right car." Review the complete records and make a log thereof on a spreadsheet so YOU have a one or two page summary of the car's maintenance and repair history. Then YOU will KNOW what prospective maintenance is due and when. Something that's often overlooked is the small paper filter element in the power steering fluid reservoir - costs about $2 but is often forgotten. And see when the coolant and brake fluid was last changed. Ideally two years brake fluid and I believe four years for the coolant. These all iron fives are tough, durable engines that are easily maintained by an interested owner. Good luck with it and post your questions here when they arise. Thank you so much for your advice. I did wait for about 8 months to find this car. I recently called the dealer just for the hell of it, and asked for a price of scheduled maintenance. It was around $650+tax to do oil and lube, inspection, trannsmission flush, etc. "Insanity", I thought, and started looking for a good manual on DIY maintenance. Any ideas, T.G.? Also, maybe sometime down the road, I was thinking of updating the headlights to Euro. I found some for $180, some for $290. What's the deal? Is Hella better than Depo? Thanks. Mia AFAIK the real euro lights are Bosch, and AFAIK capitolwest.com sells them. Also, call an independant Benz shop and I bet that $650 drops to $#00, but the Benz manual is great to have for DIY maintenance (Benz makes a service manual and IMHO it's the best). I think there is a Haynes manual for that model, just to get you started. Also get a parts catalog from Performance products featuring a blowup of all systems, parts and prices......good luck......Rick Benz service CD is better than Haynes manual Bad photography, no prices, but I agree more information (Mercedes photographer must have been a relative) I think the biggest problem with the photos is that the whole cd is scans from the books, and they aren't the best scans in the world either. If you start looking at them at about 300% things start to clear up though. > I think the biggest problem with the photos is that the whole cd is > scans from the books, and they aren't the best scans in the world > either. If you start looking at them at about 300% things start to > clear up though. Yeah, they basically scanned printed half toned material. This produces really crappy looking scans. Too bad, as this is kind of big problem with these manuals. Marty > I think the biggest problem with the photos is that the whole cd is > scans from the books, and they aren't the best scans in the world > either. If you start looking at them at about 300% things start to > clear up though. You're absolutely right Marlinspike. I talked to the people At M-B of North America in New Jersey this a.m. and that's what I was told......they just scanned the old, reliable, service manuals and put them all on CD. The 240D, 300D, etc., sells for $99 for the whole set which is, I believe, 5 printed manuals. I have all but the electrical manual and would sure like to have one. The problem with scanning halftone pictures is that you are scanning photos printed, at best, on a 133-line-screen basis. What this means if you count the number of dots per inch you will come up with 133 of 'em, both vertically and horizontally . In order to achieve a picture resolution you either increase or decrease the size of the dots. Smaller dots, lighter areas. Larger dots, darker areas. When you try to scan a halftone print with a scanner, even at very high resolution, you get pretty crappy results. I've even tried scanning at 6,000 dpi and I still get scans with heavy lines running through them. Don't know if there is a simple way to correct this but I've tried just about everything I know (which isn't always enough) and still make it work right. Anyone know the answer? > Don't know if there is a simple way to correct this > but I've tried just about everything I know (which isn't always enough) and > still make it work right. Anyone know the answer? The best way is to rescan the original photos of course... Programs like Photoshop also have a "descreen" option that attempt to help this. Unfortunately the people that made the MB manuals on CD did neither, so all photos look really sucky (technical term). Marty > Bad photography, no prices, but I agree more information (Mercedes > photographer must have been a relative) I don't think it was the photographers fault? Looks to me like it's was the printer that was in the family, or maybe this is only on the CD version. Marty Well, even in the books, the pictures tend to be underexposed, or perhaps just printed that way, and I think they should have done, not in ever instance but in some, what BMW did and draw some of the "pictures" because sometimes it's much easier to show something in a drawing (like when showing something that is behind something, the MB photographs make you lose perspective while the BMW drawing allow you to see through the object in front, while still providing an outline for perspective. > Well, even in the books, the pictures tend to be underexposed, or > perhaps just printed that way, and I think they should have done, not [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to see through the object in front, while still providing an outline > for perspective. I have only dealt with one BMW manual and one Benz manual, so be warned about my generalizations :~) The BMW manual was incredible. I would pay $250 in a heart beat for a comparable manual for my 190e... Too bad there isn't one. Marty Hehe, I'm going to guess you weren't useing the BMW service manual stuff that pertains to the E39 5 series? I find the BMW stuff for the E39 to take much more user knowledge for granted. They put all the stuff on the sam CD set now btw, and interestingly while the real deal CD set costs about $700 the bootlegs cost no more than the MB bootlegs. > Hehe, I'm going to guess you weren't useing the BMW service manual > stuff that pertains to the E39 5 series? I find the BMW stuff for the > E39 to take much more user knowledge for granted. They put all the > stuff on the sam CD set now btw, and interestingly while the real deal > CD set costs about $700 the bootlegs cost no more than the MB bootlegs. No, mine was an old 1978 320i. Came with the car too! Man it was sweet. My official MB service CD for the 190e cost $35.00 on ebay. It's certainly better then nothing, but not by very much. Marty You see why there are many independent M-B repair shops. Once a car's warranty expires one must shift to an independent. If you want to DIY most of the work on your car I'd suggest you buy a M-B manual for it. There's a $100 CD-ROM which is not indexed and appears to be a scan of the paper manual. The paper manuals are no longer published so one needs to buy used ones, probably on ebay.com. The maintenance on these old diesels is quite simple, as follows: Lube oil and engine oil filter every 5K miles - use diesel grade (CF to CI-4) oil, 10-30, 20-40, 20-50 in the summer. http://api-ep.api.org/filelibrary/API_MotorOilGuide_2004.pdf Adjust the engine's valves every 15K miles, particularly if that interval occurs in the fall. I can send some instructions if you're interested in doing this. Change the transmission oil and filter every 30K or 35K miles, check your Owner's Manual for which it should be, then also replace the engine's air and both fuel filters. Change the brake fluid every two or three years, engine coolant every four years. That's about all the scheduled maintenance that's needed, the fabric covered fuel injector bleed off hoses fail after some years, leak fuel and need to be replaced. Buy about 3.5' of hose and, using a utility knife, cut the old hose off the injectors - one piece at a time so you can cut the new hose to the proper length - and push the replacement(s) onto the barbed fittings with a plier. Don't overlook #5's stub which is terminated with a small metal plug that you should insert into the stub BEFORE attaching that stub onto #5 injector. When something bad happens always look at the simple possibilities first. These diesels are tough and durable so assume the major components are OK and check the small components like the fuel filter etc. You are very knowledgeable. I appreciate your input. How would you go about repainting a classic Benz such as my 300SD? I love the way it looks, but the paint is a bit dull and is of unusual brown color. Any thoughts on new paint vs. original, good new paint vs. bad new paint, etc.? Thank you in advance. Mia Know very little about paint, suggest you talk to a few well regarded body shops. A caution, however; as much as you like your new car don't over invest in it for an insurance company won't readily share your enthusiasm in the event of a claim. Good point, Correct me if I'm wrong, but from insurance stand point, aren't 300SD's even in pristice condition worth $2000-3000? Edmunds and BlueBook seem to agree ... Insurance is intended to repair or replace. Most old cars are pretty run out and not worth much so fixing them is more costly than replacing them. So if you invest a lot of $$ in this 21 year old car it will be up to you to prove its superior condition (and correspondingly higher than average value) in the event of a claim. I went through this a few years ago - and won, on physical condition, complete maintenance history and the insurance company knowing that the car could not be replaced within 90 days. So they paid $5,800 to fix it. you would be suprised that some polishing compound will do to bring out the real color as for every thing else just do what the guys are telling you. my tranny has been slipping on shifts now for 3 years . changed filters fluids they have tried every thing. still driving it shifting it my self its an 82SD with 270,000 when it goes it turns into a parts car the case, minus a few cans! I checked out Zymol Carnauba site. They've got about a million different kinds of waxes. I guess I'll need to read up more on what kind would fir my car ... Thanks for all your input. Zymol, IMO and many others, is a big waste of money unless you want to show your car and wax it the same day you show it. If it stays inside go with P21S if it stays outside go with One Grand Blitz Wax. Get the expensive Carnauba that is intended to be hand applied. Clean with Zymol cleaner first. Then get the wax started before taking the car out again. You'll waqnt to put on numerous coats, but each one takes a long time.  SignatureRandall Brink Author randallbrink@adelphia.net 1970 VW Type 1 1975 Mercedes-Benz W115 240D >I checked out Zymol Carnauba site. They've got about a million > different kinds of waxes. I guess I'll need to read up more on what > kind would fir my car ... > > Thanks for all your input. > you would be suprised that some polishing compound will do to bring out > the real color Amen - when I got my 81, it was a flat dust brown from years of neglect. I HATE polishing compound - it's basically liquid sandpaper, but after waxing and waxing and waxing the dead finish with less than wonderful results, I finally gave up and used the polishing compound. Now it's the deep rich brown color you wish your cup of hot chocolate was. She's all purty and shiny now. Just be careful not to do this trick routinely, and be careful not to confuse rubbing compound with polishing compound - it's even more abrasive. > its an 82SD with 270,000 > when it goes it turns into a parts car Damn - I've got to wait another 230,000 miles before I can scavenge parts off your car? Conrad Conrad, Can you give me a play-by-play on what you did with your car - you mentioned polishing compound. My car is dull brown - judging by absence of rust it's been washed, but done so in commercial washes. What did you do and what should I? Thanks, Mia sorrry Conrad yer just going to have to wait. hope the tranny waits also the case, minus a few cans! > Conrad, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Mia Here's a play by play of what I did. 1) first, as I mentioned above I tried waxing - multiple times. It was an improvement, but left much to be desired. 2) I washed the car carefully - it's amazing how much dirt can stick to your car - and all of that dirt is a great source of scratches when you start rubbing the car. 3) Repeat step 2. Really 4) I bought some polishing compound (not rubbing compound) at the local car parts place. I also got some paint cloths, which are supposed to be clean and free of any potentially abrasive things. 5) I found a place I wouldn't have to look at (in my case, the center of the roof) just in case I did something bad to my paint. 6) I moistened one of the paint cloths, dabbed it into the polishing compound, and started rubbing. When I saw how nice and shiny the paint was, I promptly wore my arm out doing the rest of the roof. 7) I awoke the next day unable to move my arms. 8) Back to the parts store to buy a buffing machine. Don't get the simple circular kind. Get the random orbit type. 9) apply the buffer to all the flat surfaces of the car. Be VERY careful on sharp curves and corners - I still did all of these by hand. It's possible to do them with a buffer but you've got to have a light touch, or you can burn right through the paint with a power buffer. 10) wash the car again. 11) wax 12) enjoy Conrad >> Conrad, >> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > 11) wax > 12) enjoy I forgot the last step - watch in amazement as every bird within three counties uses your new finish for target practice. Conrad Very informative, thanks. Bonus: bird joke is funny :) I'd like to wash, dry, and wax in the same spot. But I can't wash around my apartment building, and the nearest carwash is across the dirt road. So I can't wash, then drive home, let it dry, then wax. I can't sit at the wash and let it dry, either. Do I hand-dry it? :) I would find someone with a hose, because car washes are no good, and those wash your own car things always use high pressure hoses. There is a school of thought that says high-pressure hoses can lift paint off. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- >I would find someone with a hose, because car washes are no good, and > those wash your own car things always use high pressure hoses. I wish I took a class in that school of thought, because it's true. Thank goodness the lifted paint happened on the Cavalier, and not of the Benz. >There is a school of thought that says high-pressure hoses can lift paint >off. > You see why there are many independent M-B repair shops. Once a car's > warranty expires one must shift to an independent. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > appears to be a scan of the paper manual. The paper manuals are no > longer published so one needs to buy used ones, probably on ebay.com. I bought a complete set of "factory" manuals from my local MB dealer for the 240D and 300D. It was a set of 4 rather large manuals that cover everything except the auto trans. As I recall it cost me in the $125 range for all of them. When'd you buy them? They haven't printed the manuals in book form for years. My stealership said 'it would have to be a special order from Germany to get those manuals'. But then again, according to them, a set of Euro lights for my 300SD would cost $950, an oil change and lube is $600 + tax, and they would even "clean out the cassette player". At that point, I started laughing and hung up in the rudest of fashions. Very ironic - the dream DIY car is one of the most expensive ones to fix. I'd be very surprised if they could even special order the books from Germany any more. According to the MB Classic Center they are out of print and will never go into print again. I don't doubt that. Do you think $100-150 is reasonable for a CD of scanned images of the manual on Ebay? Also, I'm starting to make myself anxious thinking about possible repairs that I cannot do on my own. We are moving in a few weeks, and it seems there are no independent mechanics working on MB diesels around our new home. My new 300SD is in pristine condition, every repair done on time at the dealership in Florida, every receipt saved. It's at 130,000 now. Should I just replace things that could-maybe-possibly stall my new Benz NOW while I still have the access to somewhat decently-priced labor? What are the chances of a well-maintained vehicle like that blowing a tranny, or snapping timing chain, etc? It's a 21-year-old car, after all ... > I don't doubt that. Do you think $100-150 is reasonable for a CD of > scanned images of the manual on Ebay? No, 50 maybe, but not more. It would be worth paying that much for the actual books though... Marty I don't doubt that. Do you think $100-150 is reasonable for a CD of scanned images of the manual on Ebay? Also, I'm starting to make myself anxious thinking about possible repairs that I cannot do on my own. We are moving in a few weeks, and it seems there are no independent mechanics working on MB diesels around our new home. My new 300SD is in pristine condition, every repair done on time at the dealership in Florida, every receipt saved. It's at 130,000 now. Should I just replace things that could-maybe-possibly stall my new Benz NOW while I still have the access to somewhat decently-priced labor? What are the chances of the transmission going out on a well-maintained vehicle like that, or timing chain snapping, etc.? It's a 21-year-old car, after all ... $100 to $150 on ebay is a legitimate price only if the CD is legitimate (I believe it costs $150 direct from MB). Bootlegs usually go for about $30-$40. As far as big stuff going, it never goes without long warning, the only one that can go without warning is the timing chain, but I don't know how timing chains are on the diesels. I know when my 380 has needed a timing chain it always gave me fair warning with that too, though I wouldn't expect it. Richard I've heard horror stories about fuel pumps failing at 80mph, but I guess it could happen on any car. A couple more questions/opinions: - I guess the bottom line is even a Benz can fail. With mine, I took every possible precaution when I bought it, but I guess if it's God's will, it can go, too :) Also, I've been driving a 1993 Chevy Cavalier for 4 years, bought it from a nice old lady. I changed oil when I had the money (not too often), replaced nothing, not even sparkplugs, jumped off curbs, hit a deer, and my brother straightened the front end with a 2x4 ... The thing has a rusted out bottom and sides, but it still drives!!! - When you guys bought your Benzes, did you ever have to explain to your family why you bought a Mercedes-Benz as opposed to a Ford Taurus? I think some members of my family are ready to disown me. No reasoning about MB's superior quality / dependability can persuade them I DIDN'T 't drop $10k on this car ... > When'd you buy them? They haven't printed the manuals in book form for > years. I bet this place has 'em http://www.books4cars.com/ > > When'd you buy them? They haven't printed the manuals in book form for > > years. > > I bet this place has 'em > > http://www.books4cars.com/ Wow! Just checked the site suggested above and they really get a price for those books. Service manuals are obviously the most expensive. I have: 1. Service manual Engines 615, 616, 617.91 about 800 pages! 2. Service Manual Chassis and Body, Series 123, Volumes 1 & 2, at least 1,300 pages for both, 3. Servicew Manual Heating, Air Conditioning Automatic Climate Control Model 123, approx 400 pages. All were published by Mercedes-Benz of North America, Inc., One Mercedes Drive, Montvale, NJ 07645, and have been an incredible source of information. > When'd you buy them? They haven't printed the manuals in book form for > years. Had to be in the last four years cause that's when I bought the car. It could have been possible my local dealer (S. CA) had some in stock but I doubt it since I had to wait several days for them to arrive. Maybe I'll check with them to see if they have any more. Could be a fantastic eBay item! > When'd you buy them? They haven't printed the manuals in book form for > years. Wonder what the implications would be of making good copies of these original factory manuals and offering them for sale? The pictures alone are worth loads. You know, I really don't know. All the same information is still available from Mercedes on CD, but the CD's aren't nearly as good as the books (not the greatest scans in the world, harder to navigate, and oddly my CD doesn't cover brake pad and brake rotor replacement). >> When'd you buy them? They haven't printed the manuals in book form for >> years. > > Wonder what the implications would be of making good copies of these > original factory manuals and offering them for sale? The pictures alone are > worth loads. You would be violating copyright law to do this... > >> When'd you buy them? They haven't printed the manuals in book form for > >> years. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You would be violating copyright law to do this... And.....your point is....... >> On 2005-04-23 16:13:41 -0700, "Ernie Sparks" <earnest37@sbcglobal.net> > said: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> > And.....your point is....... You would be a criminal. So you should prepare yourself for your legal defense. OOOOOOO i am scared the case, minus a few cans! T.G. I bought a 300SD last week. I would appreciate it, if you could send the procedure for the valve adjustment. The fabric fuel lines are leaking and I am going to replace them. Regards, David >You see why there are many independent M-B repair shops. Once a car's >warranty expires one must shift to an independent. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >first. These diesels are tough and durable so assume the major >components are OK and check the small components like the fuel filter etc. > Congratulations on your purchase and for waiting to find the "right car." > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Good luck with it and post your questions here when they arise. Probably a really bad deal. Contact me and I'll give you $100 over your purchase price just to take this lemon off your hands and save you a lot of grief. Change every filter, using ONLY german OEM filters, Mann, Bosch, etc. and give it a thorough washing with Zymol and wax with Carnauba--several coats. Have wheel bearings packed. Check suspension. Drive. Enjoy. You have one of the best cars Mercedes ever built. They're not making any more of these, and probably never will. SignatureRandall Brink Author randallbrink@adelphia.net 1970 VW Type 1 1975 Mercedes-Benz W115 240D > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Mia Keep original paint for as long as possible or repaint at decent local body shop? Depends what shape the paint is in, but a good repaint will cost around $7000-$8000, so perhaps it's not something you want to do. It's better to keep original paint than it is to get a bad paint job so don't waste your money on that. As far as fuel pumps failing, I know on the gasoline ones they will whine and squeal for thousands of miles before they fail. The only thing you might want to replace (though perhaps it's no so important on a diesel) is the voltage regulator. mercedessource.com seems to have a nice little kit with instructions to replace it. Any ideas on Euro headlamps for W126? The prices on them are all over the place, and the compatibility is sometimes questionable. Some on Ebay say their lights will fit any W126, but then there are people who say they needed to replace/fabricate some parts. While I've never bought euro lights because i actually prefer the look of the pre-1986 US light to any other light, I hear capitolwest.com sells the real deal. Why do it? SignatureRandall Brink Author randallbrink@adelphia.net 1970 VW Type 1 1975 Mercedes-Benz W115 240D > Any ideas on Euro headlamps for W126? The prices on them are all over > the place, and the compatibility is sometimes questionable. Some on > Ebay say their lights will fit any W126, but then there are people who > say they needed to replace/fabricate some parts. Why do euro lights? Well some like the look better. Why do E-code lights (euro or drop in cibie's sold by danielsternlighting.com)? Because they put out much more light and at the same time have less of a blinding affect on oncoming traffic. Some Asian imports have plastic lenses instead of glass....even the Bosch yellow boxes are made in Malaysia Keep as long as possible, and if eventually need to, spend plenty of time finding the right foreign/classic car painter. SignatureRandall Brink Author randallbrink@adelphia.net 1970 VW Type 1 1975 Mercedes-Benz W115 240D > Keep original paint for as long as possible or repaint at decent local > body shop? > Keep original paint for as long as possible or repaint at decent local > body shop? ALWAYS try to keep original paint. > > Keep original paint for as long as possible or repaint at decent local > > body shop? > > ALWAYS try to keep original paint. I agree. Original Glasomax (sic?) is still the best paint I've ever seen. You would not believe the paint jobs I was able to produce in Germany with this paint in the early '60s. Don't know if those enamels are even available in Germany anymore. In any event here's a trick we used in the fiberglass industry to put a finish polish on molds and I know it works on cars because I've done it. After doing all of the rubbing, polishing, etc., we did a finish polish with baking soda mixed with plain ole water into a paste and used to remove any remaining polishing scratches. There are similar compounds used by really good paint/body shops that can probably do a similar job. In any event I remember one guy in our shop sliding a dry polishing rag from one end to the other of a fairly long "plug" used to make female fiberglass molds. It slid up hill from the stern to the bow with a flick of the hand. Have not seen anything as shiny since with the possible exception of that $500k+ MB McLaren at our local MB dealer last week. I'm too old to do any serious polishing anymore but if I really wanted to have a car polished out right I'd take it to a reputable auto body shop and ask them if they have someone who might be interested in polishing out my car. You might be surprised what they can do in a relatively short time. And I wouldn't worry about going through the paint if it hasn't been polished much in the past. The biggest mistake people usually make is too much polishing and not enough waxing. Polishing removes paint, waxing protects it. Spoken like a pro. So you're saying to take a MB with dull paint to a body shop and have them use polishing compound on it, then wax? Mia > Spoken like a pro. > > So you're saying to take a MB with dull paint to a body shop and have > them use polishing compound on it, then wax? > > Mia That would be my choice since a good rub out takes a lot of work and is normally a 3 or 4 step process. I'd do the wax job myself since that doesn't require nearly as much manual labor as the rub out, and you won't run into the possibility of rubbing through the paint on the convex surfaces such a protruding corners, etc. Body shop personnel who have done this for a while have the tricks down pretty good and avoid rubbing through paint. Can you imagine listening to a painter who has just rolled a new paint job out of the booth and had an underling rub through in a single spot. It can take many hours of repeat labor just to clean up such a spot. They just don't do it or they're looking for another job real quick. Glasurit is the paint. I don't think it's the same stuff as it used to be since IIRC it is now water based and used to be alcohol based. Also, it is sadly still produced using a method that is illegal in the US, so you cannot have your car repainted in the US using it. At the same time, I've seen American paint jobs that are amazing, so I think it coms down to just using a good shop. The timing chain can be checked for wear at the next valve adjustment. The engine is turned by hand until a mark on the cam aligns with a fixed reference mark - that sets the cam to 00 degrees. Then the crankshaft's angle (scale on the balancer down at the pulleys) is read. The chain is worn and ought to be replaced if the crankshaft angle exceeds 5 degrees. Have it checked so you'll know it OK, or not. |
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