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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / May 2005Testing for difference between diesel and heating oil.
In my area we sometimes get diesel oil delivered to homes as heating oil. Is there a way of knowing which is which? What properties of the heating oil can be damaging to my 300TD with 200,000 miles on it? Thanks, Richard > In my area we sometimes get diesel oil delivered to homes as heating oil. > Is there a way of knowing which is which? > What properties of the heating oil can be damaging to my 300TD with > 200,000 > miles on it? > Thanks, Richard Heating oil lacks lubricity which can destroy the expensive injector pump. However, if it is legal in your area, then a 50:50 mix with diesel with a quart of engine oil added to every 50 gallons will be practically indistinguishable from diesel fuel while 100% heating oil with three quarts of Super Universal Tractor Oil added per 50 gallons will be adequate with minimal exhaust smell difference. Huw >> In my area we sometimes get diesel oil delivered to homes as heating >> oil. Is there a way of knowing which is which? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Heating oil lacks lubricity which can destroy the expensive injector > pump. Actually it is wrong cetane value that is the point here. It has nothing to do with lubrication. But that old MB diesel engine does not care about this. Heating oil will be as good as 'original' diesel fuel for it even with wrong cetane value. Newer CDI engines might be different. Reg: Harri >>> In my area we sometimes get diesel oil delivered to homes as heating >>> oil. Is there a way of knowing which is which? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Newer CDI engines might be different. All diesel engines will work adequately well with heating oil if lubricity is corrected for reliability. Cetane levels in diesel fuel varies from Summer to Winter fuel and according to sulphur level. Huw >>>> In my area we sometimes get diesel oil delivered to homes as >>>> heating oil. Is there a way of knowing which is which? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Cetane levels in diesel fuel varies from Summer to Winter fuel and > according to sulphur level. That's not true here. We have separate oil for heating and for engines. Most engine manufacturers warranty is dependent on what fuel you use and it is determined by cetane level. Diesel engine cetane level is often 40 or more but healing oil is what ever. See for examle http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/diesel/Diesel_Spec.shtm or even better http://www.exxon.com/USA-English/GFM/Products_Services/Fuels/Diesel_Fuels_FAQ.asp where you can find an answer to the question "What are the differences among diesel fuels, heating oils and kerosenes?" Bue as I mentioned before an old Mercedes engine does not matter which fuel, diesel fuel or heating oil, is used. Reg: Harri >>>>> In my area we sometimes get diesel oil delivered to homes as >>>>> heating oil. Is there a way of knowing which is which? [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Reg: Harri I cannot see a great difference between our viewpoints. You acknowledge that an old Merc will run OK on it and I can confirm that modern units will also. It is essential in all cases that lubricity is maintained, hence the addition of oil. Clean oil of a specific quality in very moderate quantity mind you, not dirty sump oil pumped in at random. TVO, for those that have heard of it, can be easily approximated even today using heating oil or diesel, petrol and oil and this would burn in a spark ignition engine after starting from cold with petrol only. Many things are possible with IC engine liquid fuel. Huw Diesel oil delivered for heating oil will be red or blue in color and the bill from the supplier states that diesel fuel was delivered. In my area, heating oil is no longer produced and diesel has been delivered exclusively for about 10 years now. At one time the specification for diesel and heating oil differed mainly in respect to moisture content and the size and count of suspended particulates with diesel being the more refined of the two. > In my area we sometimes get diesel oil delivered to homes as heating oil. > Is there a way of knowing which is which? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > -- > Message posted via http://www.carkb.com > Diesel oil delivered for heating oil will be red or blue in color and the > bill from the supplier states that diesel fuel was delivered. In my area, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > particulates > with diesel being the more refined of the two. In the UK domestic heating oil is similar to paraffin or kerosene elsewhere. Industrial heating oil is slightly different. Moisture content? Huw if you get caught with the RED stuff and it is road taxed in your area get ready for a heafty fine. i have never been checked but truckers are at some weigh stations the case, minus a few cans! > if you get caught with the RED stuff and it is road taxed in your area > get ready for a heafty fine. > i have never been checked but truckers are at some weigh stations > > the case, minus a few cans! The legality is an answer to a different question. Huw > > Diesel oil delivered for heating oil will be red or blue in color and the > > bill from the supplier states that diesel fuel was delivered. In my area, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Huw Yes. Any outdoor tank is subject to condensation and bulk fuels and stocks are stored outdoors. >> > Diesel oil delivered for heating oil will be red or blue in color and > the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Yes. Any outdoor tank is subject to condensation and bulk fuels and stocks > are stored outdoors. All fuels are prone to water contamination in storage apart from pressure stored products such as CNG or LPG and all can be stored in surface tanks except petrol, though underground tanks are also prone to water ingress and fuel leaks at various points. Huw > >> > Diesel oil delivered for heating oil will be red or blue in color and > > the [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Huw There ya go. You answered your own question. >> >> > Diesel oil delivered for heating oil will be red or blue in color >> >> > and [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > There ya go. You answered your own question. It is a question I wanted you to answer because you implied a different specification for 'moisture content' and particle contamination of various fuel at a point in time. " At one time the specification for diesel and heating oil differed mainly in respect to moisture content and the size and count of suspended particulates with diesel being the more refined of the two." In fact neither diesel fuel nor heating oil typically absorbs water so that a moisture content can be meaningful. Water pools to the bottom of either fuel's reservoir and, given a tap, can be drained out. Water is always a contaminant in such cases and there is no acceptable limit for it for either fuel. Huw > >> All fuels are prone to water contamination in storage apart from pressure > >> stored products such as CNG or LPG and all can be stored in surface tanks [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > heating oil differed mainly in > respect to moisture content and the size and count of suspended particulates > with diesel being the more refined of the two." > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Huw Well that simply isn't so. Water can be suspended in diesel or heating oil. Do a google search for "water suspended in diesel fuel". >> >> All fuels are prone to water contamination in storage apart from > pressure [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > oil. > Do a google search for "water suspended in diesel fuel". Water can and does especially if there is also bacterial contamination but it is not particularly common, certainly not where I am, and is still a contaminant with no acceptable limit. It should not be present and if present without bacterial infection will settle out in a matter of hours after precipitation unless the precipitation is severe enough to create an emulsion. This is unlikely in normal automotive use although droplets, if water is present, will be suspended in moving vehicle fuel tanks but which will be separated at the, almost universally fitted, sediment bowl or agglomerator. If there was an accepted and differing specification for various fuels' "moisture content" in this respect then please show us. Otherwise you are pissing into the wind. Water, unless separated from the fuel, will damage and impair the efficient function of diesel engines and heating systems alike. It also corrodes the bottom of metal fuel tanks. Huw > All fuels are prone to water contamination in storage apart from pressure > stored products such as CNG or LPG and all can be stored in surface tanks > except petrol, though underground tanks are also prone to water ingress and > fuel leaks at various points. So if I understand you correctly, you can't park your car outside because it has a gasoline (petrol) tank? This is nuts. I know of lots of places that have above ground storage of gasoline (petrol) with no ill effects. Why would you suggest that the tank being above ground would be any more or less prone to water problems? I think the reason some places require underground tanks is for fire safety considerations.  SignatureRoger Shoaf About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then they come up with this striped stuff. >> All fuels are prone to water contamination in storage apart from pressure >> stored products such as CNG or LPG and all can be stored in surface tanks [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > it > has a gasoline (petrol) tank? Your understanding is deficient. > This is nuts. I know of lots of places that have above ground storage of > gasoline (petrol) with no ill effects. Above ground storage of petrol is illegal in large parts of the globe. > Why would you suggest that the tank being above ground would be any more > or > less prone to water problems? I think the reason some places require > underground tanks is for fire safety considerations. I did not suggest either would be worse than the other and you are correct that fire safety is the reason. Huw "> Why would you suggest that the tank being above ground would be any more > or > less prone to water problems? I think the reason some places require > underground tanks is for fire safety considerations. " The reason above ground is more prone to water problems is because the tank temperature changes over a wide range and frequently. When it gets hot, air moves out of the tank. When it gets cold, air re-enters the tank, bringing moisture with it and as the temp drops, the moisture condenses into water. Underground tanks are in a stable temp environment. How much of a problem this is depends a lot on climate. You obviously are going to get more condensation in area with humid air and wide temp swings. > Why would you suggest that the tank being above ground would be any more or > less prone to water problems? I think the reason some places require > underground tanks is for fire safety considerations. Above ground storage is superior for leak detection, but for the same reason, more of a fire hazard. Nothing to do with moisture AFAIK. Either way tank contents can be contaminated. Home heating oil has a colorant added to it and none of the taxes from state or federal added. P. > In my area we sometimes get diesel oil delivered to homes as heating oil. > Is there a way of knowing which is which? > What properties of the heating oil can be damaging to my 300TD with > 200,000 > miles on it? > Thanks, Richard > Home heating oil has a colorant added to it and none of the taxes from state > or federal added. P. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > -- > > Message posted via http://www.carkb.com Around here (California) they refer to diesel with dye as "red dye diesel". It's put into diesel that is sold for off-road use....graders, tractors, etc., without that annoying road tax (about 48 cents per gallon here). On-road diesel vehicles are checked sometimes at weigh stations and some state boys sneak around to construction jobsites and check diesel trucks used by those grader drivers, etc. It's a $1,000 fine if you're caught. I've never heard of a car being stopped and checked for red dye diesel. That'd be a waste of their time since their chances of finding a culprit would be very slim. Oh, you poor things...violin strings.... Try 48 PENCE (or more) per LITRE in Europe... DAS SignatureFor direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > etc., without that annoying road tax (about 48 cents per gallon here). [...] |
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