Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / June 2005
Why Pump When you can Pour?
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LeMod Pol - 08 Jun 2005 20:07 GMT Why pump when you can pour?
That's what Ed Pirl thinks as he fuels up his converted 1983 Mercedes 300D sedan with vegetable oil. His car gets 22 miles per gallon of oil.
Pix and complete text @ http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/newsletter/mu-html/orl-greasepeople060 805jun08,0,3667900.story?coll=orl-middayupdate-utility
By Linda Shrieves | Sentinel Staff Writer June 8, 2005
At first whiff, Ed Pirl's car smells like . . . burgers. Or is it fries?
Stick your nose down by the exhaust pipe for a more scientific inspection, and you realize the scent is definitely more burgerlike.
"Our friends say they don't like caravaning behind us to football games," says Ed's wife, Beth Pirl, "because they get hungry and want to stop for burgers at every fast-food place along the way."
While Americans are paying an average of $2.10 for a gallon of gas, Ed Pirl is living off the fat of the land -- literally.
Americans may go to restaurants to gobble up greasy foods, but Ed Pirl heads to greasy joints to gas up his vegetable oil-powered car.
Eat more fried foods, America. You may be fueling a new way of life.
"It's a different kind of counterculture thing, but it works great," says Pirl, mashing down the gas pedal near his Port St. John home and zipping toward Interstate 95. "And it makes you feel better about driving around."
And away he goes, averaging 22 miles per gallon of grease.
Chicken-mobile jokes
When gas prices topped $2 a gallon last year, Pirl turned to his computer to find ways to save money. He discovered a concept that amazed him: Diesel engines were originally designed to run on vegetable oil.
Penny-pinchers and environmentalists began converting diesels to run on french-fry grease about five years ago, and the movement has been picking up steam since, says Lee Birante of Greasecar Inc. of Easthampton, Mass., one of the nation's largest sellers of conversion kits. Now there are probably between 3,000 and 5,000 Americans driving grease-fueled vehicles, Birante says, and business has jumped dramatically in the past six months as gas prices climbed.
With a 1983 Mercedes 300D sedan sitting in his driveway, Ed Pirl figured he didn't have much to lose. So Pirl paid Morgan Crawford, a graduate student from St. Petersburg and veggie-car converter, to change his Mercedes from diesel to diners' leftovers.
Five thousand miles and hundreds of gallons of grease later, Pirl's car is still going strong.
In the beginning, however, others were skeptical.
"I pictured this thing sitting in my back yard for years," says wife, Beth. "But now it's become the car of choice for us."
Meanwhile, the Pirl family's Isuzu Trooper sits in the garage, gathering dust. The family's Mitsubishi Lancer sits in the driveway. Everyone prefers to hop in the veggie car.
Pirl takes some gentle ribbing about the car. One neighbor dubbed it the "Chicken-mobile."
"I drive up and he always says, 'What's cooking in there?" Pirl says, smiling.
In the beginning, it probably did smell like Colonel Sanders' kitchen -- because Pirl was filling up at a chicken-wing restaurant. But when the restaurant's hydrogenated oil began gumming up his filters, Pirl discovered what most greasers learn: that all used oil is not created equal.
The best oil, say grease-car veterans, comes from Asian restaurants, diners or bars that fry in canola oil.
Continued and Picture Gallery @ http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/newsletter/mu-html/orl-greasepeople060 805jun08,0,3667900.story?coll=orl-middayupdate-utility
Copyright © 2005, Orlando Sentinel
-- LP
"We are fighting today for security, for progress, and for peace, not only for ourselves but for all men, not only for one generation but for all generations. We are fighting to cleanse the world of ancient evils, ancient ills."
Franklin Delano Roosevelt State of the Union Address - 1942
Larry Bud - 08 Jun 2005 20:14 GMT > Why pump when you can pour? > > That's what Ed Pirl thinks as he fuels up his converted > 1983 Mercedes 300D sedan with vegetable oil. His car > gets 22 miles per gallon of oil. I take it this guy doesn't have to pass emissions?
Fact of the matter is if everybody did this, there wouldn't be enough vegetable oil to go around, and it would cost more than gas does today.
2nd, where in the world does he fill up?
CaptainW116 - 08 Jun 2005 21:00 GMT Wow,diesels have to pass emissions test?Not here in Alaska ,just prove its a diesel and voila!
Daniel J. Stern - 09 Jun 2005 04:02 GMT > Wow,diesels have to pass emissions test?Not here in Alaska ,just prove > its a diesel and voila! Here in more populous places, yes, diesels have to pass emission tests.
Chas Hurst - 09 Jun 2005 04:08 GMT > > Wow,diesels have to pass emissions test?Not here in Alaska ,just prove > > its a diesel and voila! > > Here in more populous places, yes, diesels have to pass emission tests. What emission test would an 1983 (the year of the subject car) diesel be required to pass? What test in general are diesels required to pass? There is none here in the Philadelphia PA area, a very populous place.
marlin - 09 Jun 2005 04:19 GMT Diesels have to do smoke tests (i.e. how much does it smoke). Richard
>> > Wow,diesels have to pass emissions test?Not here in Alaska ,just prove >> > its a diesel and voila! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the > Philadelphia PA area, a very populous place. Chas Hurst - 09 Jun 2005 04:27 GMT Not in my populous area.
> Diesels have to do smoke tests (i.e. how much does it smoke). > Richard [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > the > > Philadelphia PA area, a very populous place. Daniel J. Stern - 09 Jun 2005 04:37 GMT > What emission test would an 1983 (the year of the subject car) diesel be > required to pass? Well, gosh, Chas, ol' buddy, ol' pal, that completely depends on where we're postulating its registration!
Chas Hurst - 09 Jun 2005 04:42 GMT > > What emission test would an 1983 (the year of the subject car) diesel be > > required to pass? > > Well, gosh, Chas, ol' buddy, ol' pal, that completely depends on where > we're postulating its registration! Of course. You said in your populous area, dincha?
CaptainW116 - 09 Jun 2005 04:48 GMT Why did you all stop?Was sort of entertaining!
Garth Almgren - 09 Jun 2005 05:06 GMT [Politics and headlines groups trimmed]
>>>Wow,diesels have to pass emissions test?Not here in Alaska ,just prove >>>its a diesel and voila! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What emission test would an 1983 (the year of the subject car) diesel be > required to pass? An example from Washington State's emissions testing website: ------------------------------------------------------------- 1978 and newer diesel vehicles under 8501 pounds Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) with two-wheel or part-time four wheel drive.
These vehicles will receive an opacity test that measures the density (opacity) of exhaust as it exits the vehicle's tailpipe. The vehicle is tested on a dynamometer. All front wheel drive vehicles will be operated by Inspection personnel. Motorists may operate rear wheel drive vehicles on the dynamometer.
1978 and newer diesel vehicles under 8501 pounds Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) with constant 4x4 (all wheel drive) or traction control.
These vehicles will receive an opacity test that measures the density (opacity) of exhaust as it exits the vehicle's tailpipe. The vehicle will not be driven on a dynamometer. The motorist will be instructed to reach required RPM levels while the vehicle idles in park or neutral (depending on the transmission or model-year type of vehicle).
 Signature ~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. ******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant." (pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)
Chas Hurst - 09 Jun 2005 05:21 GMT > An example from Washington State's emissions testing website: > ------------------------------------------------------------- [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > vehicle idles in park or neutral (depending on the transmission > or model-year type of vehicle). But nothing about other emissions such as NOx, HC, CO or french fry aroma quotient?
Garth Almgren - 09 Jun 2005 06:07 GMT > But nothing about other emissions such as NOx, HC, CO or french fry aroma > quotient? Not in WA at least.
Of course, YMMV. :)
 Signature ~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. ******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant." (pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)
LeMod Pol - 08 Jun 2005 22:16 GMT > > Why pump when you can pour? > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Fact of the matter is if everybody did this, there wouldn't be enough > vegetable oil to go around, and it would cost more than gas does today. You do not read very much - he gets used oil from restaurant fryers - they have to pay to dispose of it so he gets it free
> 2nd, where in the world does he fill up? Read the article. if you can -- It's in there Who ties your shoelaces in the morning? -- LP
"We are fighting today for security, for progress, and for peace, not only for ourselves but for all men, not only for one generation but for all generations. We are fighting to cleanse the world of ancient evils, ancient ills."
Franklin Delano Roosevelt State of the Union Address - 1942
marlin - 09 Jun 2005 03:49 GMT >> Fact of the matter is if everybody did this, there wouldn't be enough >> vegetable oil to go around, and it would cost more than gas does today. > > You do not read very much - he gets used oil from > restaurant fryers - they have to pay to dispose of it > so he gets it free Yeah, but if everybody did it there wouldn't be enough to go around and it would no longer be free.
cp - 09 Jun 2005 06:29 GMT >> You do not read very much - he gets used oil from >> restaurant fryers - they have to pay to dispose of it >> so he gets it free > > Yeah, but if everybody did it there wouldn't be enough to go around and it would no longer be free. That's why we must build more Popeye's and McDonald's. Advertising will be done through the exhaust pipe.
cp
Into the living sea of waking dreams - 09 Jun 2005 15:59 GMT >>>Why pump when you can pour? >>> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Franklin Delano Roosevelt > State of the Union Address - 1942 It's harder to get free oil than you think.
Many restaurants now sell their waste oil.
j.
Larry Bud - 10 Jun 2005 19:08 GMT > > > Why pump when you can pour? > > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > restaurant fryers - they have to pay to dispose of it > so he gets it free I guess you don't understand supply and demand. If everybody wanted to get free grease, it soon wouldn't be free.
> > 2nd, where in the world does he fill up? > > Read the article. if you can -- It's in there Sorry, don't have time.
> Who ties your shoelaces in the morning? I do it all by myself.
Martin Joseph - 15 Jun 2005 08:21 GMT >> Read the article. if you can -- It's in there > > Sorry, don't have time. Interesting that you have plenty of time to waste our time with your comments about an article you didn't even read.
Sheesh, Marty
cp - 09 Jun 2005 06:30 GMT >> That's what Ed Pirl thinks as he fuels up his converted >> 1983 Mercedes 300D sedan with vegetable oil. His car >> gets 22 miles per gallon of oil. > > I take it this guy doesn't have to pass emissions? Quite the opposite: the secret to passing emissions tests is to use veg oil, that's why it's called biodiesel (when the oil has gone through transesterification)
On straight canola, my '81 300D idles VERY quietly, and doesn't smoke, unless I'll really slam the gas...diesel pedal :-)
I haven't noticed any power loss with pure canola and my car has bad compression, according to the mechanic, though I can't tell that by driving. Admittedly, when with pure canola I have to glow it twice and crank it for a couple of seconds when the engine is cold in the morning. When warm, it starts right up.
> Fact of the matter is if everybody did this, there wouldn't be enough > vegetable oil to go around, and it would cost more than gas does today. Nonsense. The US agriculture industry could be saved. Diesel exhibited the first diesel engine on peanut oil. His plan was for poor countries to use his engine and grow fuel for it. Also, the most abundant and easiest source of diesel fuel is algae.
http://tinyurl.com/apylb
> 2nd, where in the world does he fill up? Simple. You go up to a restaurant owner and ask whether he's interested in a free used oil recycling service (here in Vancouver the city charges to haul away the gunk), or charge him half. I got a 100L/week source two blocks away from here, though I'm not using it yet. I can drive no problem on the dirty oil just by filtering it (I'm going to give them tanks which they will pay for, with primary filters, filters easy when the gunk is hot) but want to do the actual transesterification thing and am looking at various processes.
cp
Larry Bud - 10 Jun 2005 19:13 GMT > >> That's what Ed Pirl thinks as he fuels up his converted > >> 1983 Mercedes 300D sedan with vegetable oil. His car [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Quite the opposite: the secret to passing emissions tests is to use veg oil, that's why it's called biodiesel (when the oil has gone through transesterification) This guy is using used oil, with fish waste, bits of potato and other sh.t in there. This stuff isn't pure, and it certainly isn't going to burn clean.
> > Fact of the matter is if everybody did this, there wouldn't be enough > > vegetable oil to go around, and it would cost more than gas does today. > > Nonsense. The US agriculture industry could be saved. Diesel exhibited the first diesel engine on peanut oil. His plan was for poor > countries to use his engine and grow fuel for it. Also, the most abundant and easiest source of diesel fuel is algae. I'm not talking about growing it, I'm talking about filling up on used oil.
> http://tinyurl.com/apylb > > > 2nd, where in the world does he fill up? > > Simple. You go up to a restaurant owner and ask whether he's interested in a free used oil recycling service (here in Vancouver the > city charges to haul away the gunk), or charge him half. I got a 100L/week source two blocks away from here, though I'm not using it Yeah, and it's 10am on Christmas day, you need to get to Grandma's, but hell, all the restaurants are closed today. It's a problem.
Magnulus - 09 Jun 2005 09:50 GMT > I take it this guy doesn't have to pass emissions? Biofuels in diesels run clean, cleaner than many gasoline cars.
Having said that, modern diesels cannot reliably run on raw vegetable oil. It must be transesterfied to biodiesel first. Most people do not have the equipment at home to safely or effectively do this on their own.
Daniel J. Stern - 09 Jun 2005 15:15 GMT > modern diesels cannot reliably run on raw vegetable oil. It must be > transesterfied to biodiesel first. Most people do not have the > equipment at home to safely or effectively do this on their own. Huh? All it takes is a bottom-drain vessel and some lye.
Matthew Russotto - 09 Jun 2005 16:05 GMT >> modern diesels cannot reliably run on raw vegetable oil. It must be >> transesterfied to biodiesel first. Most people do not have the >> equipment at home to safely or effectively do this on their own. > >Huh? All it takes is a bottom-drain vessel and some lye. And methanol.
 Signature Darth Tel: "You will defeat Emperor Gates. He has forseen it. Come with me and we will rule the Galaxy as father and son!"
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-- Megahertz Wars, Episode V, "Finale".
cp - 10 Jun 2005 06:30 GMT > Having said that, modern diesels cannot reliably run on raw vegetable oil. REally? my '81 300D with bad compression runs great on PURE canola oil. Though I have to glow it twice and crank for 3 seconds when the engine is cold in the morning. And then it just purrs, very quiet and no power loss, at least I haven't noticed and I'm an agressive driver, as the freaked out VW GTI hotshot found out today when trying to show his stuff :-)
cp
Daniel J. Stern - 10 Jun 2005 17:53 GMT > > Having said that, modern diesels cannot reliably run on raw vegetable > > oil.
> REally? my '81 300D with bad compression runs great on PURE canola oil. Your '81 300D is not a modern diesel. It is a two-and-a-half-decade-old stinkpot.
news.radiant.net - 10 Jun 2005 18:30 GMT stinks like hamburgers !!
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, cp wrote:
> > Having said that, modern diesels cannot reliably run on raw vegetable > > oil.
> REally? my '81 300D with bad compression runs great on PURE canola oil. Your '81 300D is not a modern diesel. It is a two-and-a-half-decade-old stinkpot.
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