Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
HomeAnnouncements
Discussion Groups
By Brand
BMWChevroletDodgeFordGMHondaLexusMercedes-BenzNissanPeugeotToyotaVolkswagenOther Brands
By Topic
4x4 CarsRVsDrivingMaintenance & RepairCar AudioCollectible Cars
Country Specific
Australian ForumsUK Forums
ArticlesAuto InsuranceBuyingCars & TechnologyMaintenanceMiscellaneousSafety
DMV Resources
Related Topics
MotorcyclesBoatsMore Topics ...

Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / June 2005

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Why Pump When you can Pour?

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
LeMod Pol - 08 Jun 2005 20:07 GMT
Why pump when you can pour?

That's what Ed Pirl thinks as he fuels up his converted
1983 Mercedes 300D sedan with vegetable oil. His car
gets 22 miles per gallon of oil.

Pix and complete text @
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/newsletter/mu-html/orl-greasepeople060
805jun08,0,3667900.story?coll=orl-middayupdate-utility


By Linda Shrieves | Sentinel Staff Writer
June 8, 2005

At first whiff, Ed Pirl's car smells like . . .
burgers. Or is it fries?

Stick your nose down by the exhaust pipe for a more
scientific inspection, and you realize the scent is
definitely more burgerlike.

"Our friends say they don't like caravaning behind us
to football games," says Ed's wife, Beth Pirl, "because
they get hungry and want to stop for burgers at every
fast-food place along the way."

While Americans are paying an average of $2.10 for a
gallon of gas, Ed Pirl is living off the fat of the
land -- literally.

Americans may go to restaurants to gobble up greasy
foods, but Ed Pirl heads to greasy joints to gas up his
vegetable oil-powered car.

Eat more fried foods, America. You may be fueling a new
way of life.

"It's a different kind of counterculture thing, but it
works great," says Pirl, mashing down the gas pedal
near his Port St. John home and zipping toward
Interstate 95. "And it makes you feel better about
driving around."

And away he goes, averaging 22 miles per gallon of grease.

Chicken-mobile jokes

When gas prices topped $2 a gallon last year, Pirl
turned to his computer to find ways to save money. He
discovered a concept that amazed him: Diesel engines
were originally designed to run on vegetable oil.

Penny-pinchers and environmentalists began converting
diesels to run on french-fry grease about five years
ago, and the movement has been picking up steam since,
says Lee Birante of Greasecar Inc. of Easthampton,
Mass., one of the nation's largest sellers of
conversion kits. Now there are probably between 3,000
and 5,000 Americans driving grease-fueled vehicles,
Birante says, and business has jumped dramatically in
the past six months as gas prices climbed.

With a 1983 Mercedes 300D sedan sitting in his
driveway, Ed Pirl figured he didn't have much to lose.
So Pirl paid Morgan Crawford, a graduate student from
St. Petersburg and veggie-car converter, to change his
Mercedes from diesel to diners' leftovers.

Five thousand miles and hundreds of gallons of grease
later, Pirl's car is still going strong.

In the beginning, however, others were skeptical.

"I pictured this thing sitting in my back yard for
years," says wife, Beth. "But now it's become the car
of choice for us."

Meanwhile, the Pirl family's Isuzu Trooper sits in the
garage, gathering dust. The family's Mitsubishi Lancer
sits in the driveway. Everyone prefers to hop in the
veggie car.

Pirl takes some gentle ribbing about the car. One
neighbor dubbed it the "Chicken-mobile."

"I drive up and he always says, 'What's cooking in
there?" Pirl says, smiling.

In the beginning, it probably did smell like Colonel
Sanders' kitchen -- because Pirl was filling up at a
chicken-wing restaurant. But when the restaurant's
hydrogenated oil began gumming up his filters, Pirl
discovered what most greasers learn: that all used oil
is not created equal.

The best oil, say grease-car veterans, comes from Asian
restaurants, diners or bars that fry in canola oil.

Continued and Picture Gallery @
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/newsletter/mu-html/orl-greasepeople060
805jun08,0,3667900.story?coll=orl-middayupdate-utility


Copyright © 2005, Orlando Sentinel

--
LP

"We are fighting today for security, for progress,
and for peace, not only for ourselves but for all
men, not only for one generation but for all
generations. We are fighting to cleanse the world
of ancient evils, ancient ills."

Franklin Delano Roosevelt
State of the Union Address - 1942
Larry Bud - 08 Jun 2005 20:14 GMT
> Why pump when you can pour?
>
> That's what Ed Pirl thinks as he fuels up his converted
> 1983 Mercedes 300D sedan with vegetable oil. His car
> gets 22 miles per gallon of oil.

I take it this guy doesn't have to pass emissions?

Fact of the matter is if everybody did this, there wouldn't be enough
vegetable oil to go around, and it would cost more than gas does today.

2nd, where in the world does he fill up?
CaptainW116 - 08 Jun 2005 21:00 GMT
Wow,diesels have to pass emissions test?Not here
in Alaska ,just prove its a diesel and voila!
Daniel J. Stern - 09 Jun 2005 04:02 GMT
> Wow,diesels have to pass emissions test?Not here in Alaska ,just prove
> its a diesel and voila!

Here in more populous places, yes, diesels have to pass emission tests.
Chas Hurst - 09 Jun 2005 04:08 GMT
> > Wow,diesels have to pass emissions test?Not here in Alaska ,just prove
> > its a diesel and voila!
>
> Here in more populous places, yes, diesels have to pass emission tests.

What emission test would an 1983 (the year of the subject car) diesel be
required to pass?
What test in general are diesels required to pass? There is none here in the
Philadelphia PA area, a very populous place.
marlin - 09 Jun 2005 04:19 GMT
Diesels have to do smoke tests (i.e. how much does it smoke).
Richard

>> > Wow,diesels have to pass emissions test?Not here in Alaska ,just prove
>> > its a diesel and voila!
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> the
> Philadelphia PA area, a very populous place.
Chas Hurst - 09 Jun 2005 04:27 GMT
Not in my populous area.

> Diesels have to do smoke tests (i.e. how much does it smoke).
> Richard
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> > the
> > Philadelphia PA area, a very populous place.
Daniel J. Stern - 09 Jun 2005 04:37 GMT
> What emission test would an 1983 (the year of the subject car) diesel be
> required to pass?

Well, gosh, Chas, ol' buddy, ol' pal, that completely depends on where
we're postulating its registration!
Chas Hurst - 09 Jun 2005 04:42 GMT
> > What emission test would an 1983 (the year of the subject car) diesel be
> > required to pass?
>
> Well, gosh, Chas, ol' buddy, ol' pal, that completely depends on where
> we're postulating its registration!

Of course. You said in your populous area, dincha?
CaptainW116 - 09 Jun 2005 04:48 GMT
Why did you all stop?Was sort of entertaining!
Garth Almgren - 09 Jun 2005 05:06 GMT
[Politics and headlines groups trimmed]

>>>Wow,diesels have to pass emissions test?Not here in Alaska ,just prove
>>>its a diesel and voila!
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> What emission test would an 1983 (the year of the subject car) diesel be
> required to pass?

An example from Washington State's emissions testing website:
-------------------------------------------------------------
1978 and newer diesel vehicles under 8501 pounds Gross Vehicle Weight
(GVW) with two-wheel or part-time four wheel drive.

    These vehicles will receive an opacity test that measures the
    density (opacity) of exhaust as it exits the vehicle's tailpipe.
    The vehicle is tested on a dynamometer. All front wheel drive
    vehicles will be operated by Inspection personnel. Motorists may
    operate rear wheel drive vehicles on the dynamometer.

1978 and newer diesel vehicles under 8501 pounds Gross Vehicle Weight
(GVW) with constant 4x4 (all wheel drive) or traction control.

    These vehicles will receive an opacity test that measures the
    density (opacity) of exhaust as it exits the vehicle's tailpipe.
    The vehicle will not be driven on a dynamometer. The motorist
    will be instructed to reach required RPM levels while the
    vehicle idles in park or neutral (depending on the transmission
    or model-year type of vehicle).

Signature

~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
(pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info)   --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

Chas Hurst - 09 Jun 2005 05:21 GMT
> An example from Washington State's emissions testing website:
> -------------------------------------------------------------
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> vehicle idles in park or neutral (depending on the transmission
> or model-year type of vehicle).

But nothing about other emissions such as NOx, HC, CO or french fry aroma
quotient?
Garth Almgren - 09 Jun 2005 06:07 GMT
> But nothing about other emissions such as NOx, HC, CO or french fry aroma
> quotient?

Not in WA at least.

Of course, YMMV. :)

Signature

~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
(pgp@v6stang.com for secure mail info)   --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

LeMod Pol - 08 Jun 2005 22:16 GMT
> > Why pump when you can pour?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Fact of the matter is if everybody did this, there wouldn't be enough
> vegetable oil to go around, and it would cost more than gas does today.

You do not read very much - he gets used oil from
restaurant fryers - they have to pay to dispose of it
so he gets it free

> 2nd, where in the world does he fill up?

Read the article. if you can -- It's in there
Who ties your shoelaces in the morning?

--
LP

"We are fighting today for security, for progress,
and for peace, not only for ourselves but for all
men, not only for one generation but for all
generations. We are fighting to cleanse the world
of ancient evils, ancient ills."

Franklin Delano Roosevelt
State of the Union Address - 1942
marlin - 09 Jun 2005 03:49 GMT
>> Fact of the matter is if everybody did this, there wouldn't be enough
>> vegetable oil to go around, and it would cost more than gas does today.
>
> You do not read very much - he gets used oil from
> restaurant fryers - they have to pay to dispose of it
> so he gets it free

Yeah, but if everybody did it there wouldn't be enough to go around and it
would no longer be free.
cp - 09 Jun 2005 06:29 GMT
>> You do not read very much - he gets used oil from
>> restaurant fryers - they have to pay to dispose of it
>> so he gets it free
>
> Yeah, but if everybody did it there wouldn't be enough to go around and it would no longer be free.

That's why we must build more Popeye's and McDonald's. Advertising will be done through the exhaust pipe.

cp
Into the living sea of waking dreams - 09 Jun 2005 15:59 GMT
>>>Why pump when you can pour?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Franklin Delano Roosevelt
> State of the Union Address - 1942

It's harder to get free oil than you think.

Many restaurants now sell their waste oil.

j.
Larry Bud - 10 Jun 2005 19:08 GMT
> > > Why pump when you can pour?
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> restaurant fryers - they have to pay to dispose of it
> so he gets it free

I guess you don't understand supply and demand.  If everybody wanted to
get free grease, it soon wouldn't be free.

> > 2nd, where in the world does he fill up?
>
> Read the article. if you can -- It's in there

Sorry, don't have time.

> Who ties your shoelaces in the morning?

I do it all by myself.
Martin Joseph - 15 Jun 2005 08:21 GMT
>> Read the article. if you can -- It's in there
>
> Sorry, don't have time.

Interesting that you have plenty of time to waste our time with your
comments about an article you didn't even read.

Sheesh,
Marty
cp - 09 Jun 2005 06:30 GMT
>> That's what Ed Pirl thinks as he fuels up his converted
>> 1983 Mercedes 300D sedan with vegetable oil. His car
>> gets 22 miles per gallon of oil.
>
> I take it this guy doesn't have to pass emissions?

Quite the opposite: the secret to passing emissions tests is to use veg oil, that's why it's called biodiesel (when the oil has gone
through transesterification)

On straight canola, my '81 300D idles VERY quietly, and doesn't smoke, unless I'll really slam the gas...diesel pedal :-)

I haven't noticed any power loss with pure canola and my car has bad compression, according to the mechanic, though I can't tell
that by driving. Admittedly, when with pure canola I have to glow it twice and crank it for a couple of seconds when the engine is
cold in the morning. When warm, it starts right up.

> Fact of the matter is if everybody did this, there wouldn't be enough
> vegetable oil to go around, and it would cost more than gas does today.

Nonsense. The US agriculture industry could be saved. Diesel exhibited the first diesel engine on peanut oil. His plan was for poor
countries to use his engine and grow fuel for it. Also, the most abundant and easiest source of diesel fuel is algae.

http://tinyurl.com/apylb

> 2nd, where in the world does he fill up?

Simple. You go up to a restaurant owner and ask whether he's interested in a free used oil recycling service (here in Vancouver the
city charges to haul away the gunk), or charge him half. I got a 100L/week source two blocks away from here, though I'm not using it
yet. I can drive no problem on the dirty oil just by filtering it (I'm going to give them tanks which they will pay for, with
primary filters, filters easy when the gunk is hot) but want to do the actual transesterification thing and am looking at various
processes.

cp
Larry Bud - 10 Jun 2005 19:13 GMT
> >> That's what Ed Pirl thinks as he fuels up his converted
> >> 1983 Mercedes 300D sedan with vegetable oil. His car
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Quite the opposite: the secret to passing emissions tests is to use veg oil, that's why it's called biodiesel (when the oil has gone through transesterification)

This guy is using used oil, with fish waste, bits of potato and other
sh.t in there.  This stuff isn't pure, and it certainly isn't going to
burn clean.

> > Fact of the matter is if everybody did this, there wouldn't be enough
> > vegetable oil to go around, and it would cost more than gas does today.
>
> Nonsense. The US agriculture industry could be saved. Diesel exhibited the first diesel engine on peanut oil. His plan was for poor
> countries to use his engine and grow fuel for it. Also, the most abundant and easiest source of diesel fuel is algae.

I'm not talking about growing it, I'm talking about filling up on used
oil.

> http://tinyurl.com/apylb
>
> > 2nd, where in the world does he fill up?
>
> Simple. You go up to a restaurant owner and ask whether he's interested in a free used oil recycling service (here in Vancouver the
> city charges to haul away the gunk), or charge him half. I got a 100L/week source two blocks away from here, though I'm not using it

Yeah, and it's 10am on Christmas day, you need to get to Grandma's, but
hell, all the restaurants are closed today.  It's a problem.
Magnulus - 09 Jun 2005 09:50 GMT
> I take it this guy doesn't have to pass emissions?

 Biofuels in diesels run clean, cleaner than many gasoline cars.

 Having said that, modern diesels cannot reliably run on raw vegetable oil.
It must be transesterfied to biodiesel first.  Most people do not have the
equipment at home to safely or effectively do this on their own.
Daniel J. Stern - 09 Jun 2005 15:15 GMT
> modern diesels cannot reliably run on raw vegetable oil. It must be
> transesterfied to biodiesel first.  Most people do not have the
> equipment at home to safely or effectively do this on their own.

Huh? All it takes is a bottom-drain vessel and some lye.
Matthew Russotto - 09 Jun 2005 16:05 GMT
>> modern diesels cannot reliably run on raw vegetable oil. It must be
>> transesterfied to biodiesel first.  Most people do not have the
>> equipment at home to safely or effectively do this on their own.
>
>Huh? All it takes is a bottom-drain vessel and some lye.

And methanol.
Signature

Darth Tel: "You will defeat Emperor Gates.  He has forseen it.  Come with me
and we will rule the Galaxy as father and son!"

Steve Chipwalker, hanging on by his fingernails: "Sure thing, Pop. Just pull
me up, give me a laptop, and we'll go axe your boss"

  -- Megahertz Wars, Episode V, "Finale".

cp - 10 Jun 2005 06:30 GMT
>  Having said that, modern diesels cannot reliably run on raw vegetable oil.

REally? my '81 300D with bad compression runs great on PURE canola oil. Though I have to glow it twice and crank for 3 seconds when
the engine is cold in the morning. And then it just purrs, very quiet and no power loss, at least I haven't noticed and I'm an
agressive driver, as the freaked out VW GTI hotshot found out today when trying to show his stuff :-)

cp
Daniel J. Stern - 10 Jun 2005 17:53 GMT
> >  Having said that, modern diesels cannot reliably run on raw vegetable
> > oil.

> REally? my '81 300D with bad compression runs great on PURE canola oil.

Your '81 300D is not a modern diesel. It is a two-and-a-half-decade-old
stinkpot.
news.radiant.net - 10 Jun 2005 18:30 GMT
stinks like hamburgers !!

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005, cp wrote:

> >  Having said that, modern diesels cannot reliably run on raw vegetable
> > oil.

> REally? my '81 300D with bad compression runs great on PURE canola oil.

Your '81 300D is not a modern diesel. It is a two-and-a-half-decade-old
stinkpot.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.