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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / December 20061988 260E Fuel Pump Relay?
I think I have the classic fuel pump relay symptoms...car has 180k on it...no trouble at all over the years. Friday, after initial start, goes along fine. About a mile into my commute, it stalls. Re-starts and runs fine remainder of the day. Sat morning, same deal...stalls after a bit, but this time took a little more effort to start. Would fire up but immediately die. Took about 10 or so tries to get it going, then moves along fine. Fast forward to this morning...starts, goes about a mile, stalls, but this time can't re-start. Turns over fine, just won't catch. Is my unprofessional diagnosis correct? I figure the relay is cheaper than a fuel pump and something I can do myself. The local places don't have the relay (one can order it in for tomorrow) so I have a few hours for you experts to make me look like a fool. Am I going the correct route? Thanks! Maybe throw your fuel filter into the equation.If your fuel filter is clogged,then as you drive the sediment in it will stir up and block the flow of fuel then cause it to die!As it sits for a few moments the sediment settles back down and allows you to restart. IMHO you've diagnosed it correctly. The age and symptoms both point to the fuel pump relay. Fuel filter would show itself upon high fuel demand: long hill climb and longer acceleration. You cite neither of these. Respectfully,it shows the the same characteristics of a clogged fuel filter! Don't need to rally the car for the fuel filter to block up the flow of fuel.A car with a bad fuel filter will start right up in the morning and then stall right down the road a couple of miles then restart after a few minutes! T.G. Lambach, I've been following your post here for several years and find you extremely knowledgeable. You, unknowlingly, hleped me fix a number of problems with my 1989 300E. Right now I'm diagnosing a problem with the fuel pump, I think. The car stumbles at about 83 degress celcius and wants to die but never does. I've honed in on the upper fule pump for the following reason: I dosvonected the positive cable on both pumps, one at a time. When I disconnected the lower pump, I heard a relatively loud buzz. This indicates to me that the upper pump is weak and needs replacement. Do you agree with this diagnosis? Thanks, Gene alcarm1964@hotmail.com schrieb: > I think I have the classic fuel pump relay symptoms...car has 180k on > it...no trouble at all over the years. Friday, after initial start, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > have a few hours for you experts to make me look like a fool. Am I > going the correct route? Thanks! If the car stalls again remove the relay and connect pins 30 (battery +)and 87 (fuel pump and cold start regulator). If you hear the pump working, start the car. Some additional soldering of the foot points of the internal big relay with thick copper wires to get a better heat bridge solves the heat transfer problem.  SignatureRoland Franzius Well, thanks for the advice folks. The relay just arrived from UPS next day (the local NAPA place, to order it next day, wanted $148 for it! I found it online for $80 ($60 + $20 for overnight shipping) so I grabbed it. Gonna give it a shot today after work...I also picked up a fuel filter. While the one in there didn't look terrible, I can't remember the last time it was ever changed so I figured what the hell. Hopefully now I get another bunch of miles with no problems! Rule of thumb,change fuel filter when you change spark plugs. > Rule of thumb,change fuel filter when you change spark plugs. Sounds like a good rule...now if I could only remember the last time the plugs were changed :) Anyway, I changed the relay 1st since if it wasn't that, I wanted to be able to return it. Seems that was the culprit. Started it up, drove around a bit, everything seems good. I'll do the fuel filter tomorrow as it just started to pour. Once again, thanks for the tips. "alcarm1964" wrote: >I think I have the classic fuel pump relay symptoms...car has 180k on >it... stall, stall,stall, etc, etc, etc. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Wow, what you wrote about your car problem is EXACTLY what has been happening to me with my 1985 Volvo 240 (188k miles). I had to get towed home tonight because it just wouldn’t start up and then stay started. I’d been putting off taking it to a mechanic because I thought maybe I’d gotten a bad batch of gas and was going to wait and see. Deep down, I knew I was going to end up getting stranded somewhere and need to be towed home. Luckily I was only "stranded" 10 miles from my mechanic (who’s 2 miles from my home). This all started on Monday, although for a few weeks I’ve been having a little bit of trouble starting up when it’s cold out. But then on Monday, I got to the point where I had to have my foot on the gas, otherwise, the engine would sputter and die and I’d have to start it up again. But tonight, I drove from work to the bank and when I got in my car and tried to start the engine, it wouldn’t start up. I eventually got it to idle very roughly but there wasn’t enough power to make the car go more than 5 mph and the brake felt hard when I pushed down, like when the car stalls and the power goes off. So, does anyone know if this is something that is expensive to fix? I mean generally speaking because I realize this is a Mercedes board and I have a Volvo. But it seems that I always end up with car problems that have cheap parts but expensive labor. They don’t have to take everything out in order to get to the fuel pump or pump relay, do they? It would be just my luck. Anyway, I can’t believe that this exact problem has been happening to someone else at the same time as me, even if it’s not the same exact car. I hope you get your problem resolved soon and thanks in advance to anyone with advice for me! > So, does anyone know if this is something that is expensive to fix? I > mean generally speaking because I realize this is a Mercedes board and > I have a Volvo. We can only guess from the limited info we have. My guess? Fuel pressure regulator. How about $200? Let us know how it turns out... Marty > > So, does anyone know if this is something that is expensive > to fix? I [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Marty It turned out that I needed to replace the air mass sensor (I think that’s the right name for the part) and it cost $325 rebuilt. :( I had to spend almost all the money I had and I don’t get paid again until 7/5. I think a fuel pump would have been cheaper. But on the plus side of things, the mechanic said that the part that died on me looked like it might have been the original part. So maybe I don’t have to replace this again for another 20 years! >> Rule of thumb,change fuel filter when you change spark plugs. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >around a bit, everything seems good. I'll do the fuel filter tomorrow >as it just started to pour. Once again, thanks for the tips. SignatureI have an 89 300e with the same symptoms only if the car is hot. It starts cold and reuns great. I just drove 125 miles in 90 degree heat on a highway. Pulled up to a stop light after exiting and it stalled. If I drive around town and shut off the car and leave it sit for 15-20 minutes, same thing. Did the relay sold your problem? > >> Rule of thumb,change fuel filter when you change spark plugs. > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > town and shut off the car and leave it sit for 15-20 minutes, same thing. Did > the relay sold your problem? Hi...yes, the relay solved my problems. Ended up being about $80 total. Looking at the relay that I removed, there was a couple of pins that seemed a little loose/coroded. Good luck! ac "" wrote: > > >> Rule of thumb,change fuel filter when you change spark > plugs. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > ac You’re so lucky that it wasn’t the air mass sensor, like on my car! $325 for the part and then labor fees too make me wish for an $80 fix! Nice to know you can buy electrical parts and try the and take them back. The store has to pitch the out because they have been installed. "" wrote: > Nice to know you can buy electrical parts and try the and take > them > back. The store has to pitch the out because they have been > installed. I have an 87 300e with the same problems. After spending over $300 :x on a tune up and an incorrect diagnosis, I am still having the same problem. Could you tell me where you found your fuel pump relay for ~ $80.00 and what brand you chose? Is the installation as simple as putting in a fuse? >"" wrote: > > Nice to know you can buy electrical parts and try the and take [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >~ $80.00 and what brand you chose? Is the installation as simple as >putting in a fuse? depending on your chassis number you may be able to pick one up from http://www.autohausaz.com/ for US$81.47 they list the other one for your model at US$127.91 not sure how simple it is on a 300e but it's a fiddly but simple job on my 190e. Lean over car, reach about in the dark, unplug the old one and plug the new one in. -- http://members.iinet.net.au/~farmerjim/log/log.html It's boring but it's something. Hi...I actually forget the place I ordered it from...I just did a Google search and a million places came up. I noticed another posted said 2 different ones came up...I also encountered that at a few of the places, but the site I ultimately went with just offered the one. I have no idea what the differences would be. As far as installation, even a mechanially-challenged idiot like myself could do it. The relay is behind the battery under that black plastic shround. Pull the thing out, put the new one back in. Kinda cramped to get my giant mitt in there but all went well. Good luck! "I have an 89 300e with the same symptoms only if the car is hot. It starts cold and reuns great. I just drove 125 miles in 90 degree heat on a highway. Pulled up to a stop light after exiting and it stalled. If I drive around town and shut off the car and leave it sit for 15-20 minutes, same thing. Did the relay sold your problem?" Your problem sounds more like a bad fuel accumulator. The fuel accumulator holds pressure after a warm engine is shut off to allow it to restart, until it has cooled off enough for the cold start valve to come on to inject extra fuel to start a cold engine. It should hold pressure in the CIS system for several hours after shutdown. That is one of the pressure test procedures done with the CIS gauges. Leave them hooked up and come back every so often to see if it is holding pressure. I had one leaking on my 1974 911 Porsche. Started great cold, but it would crank and crank when hot before restarting, felt like a flooded engine. It would restart fine hot for about 10 minutes, then was difficult to start until it sat for over three hours and cooled down enough for the start valve to come on. Pete Cowper 1987 Mercedes-Benz 300E 1974 Porsche 911 |
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