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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / July 2005smartcarclubs.com - the Smart Car Community
smartcarclubs.com is an online community of Mercedes Smart Car owners and enthusiasts launched in June, 2005. Smarties of the world unite! Visit http://www.smartcarclubs.com > smartcarclubs.com is an online community of Mercedes Smart Car owners > and enthusiasts launched in June, 2005. Smarties of the world unite! As much as I looooove Smarts (there's relatively quite a bit of them here in Vancouver and I've tried them in Germany) how can it possibly make any sense financially to buy one? You could get 1.5 very well outfitted and normal cars such as an Echo or Corolla for the price. Or do people buy them just for what they are? :-) cp Yes, and they're short. Can fit under your arm. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] Or do people buy them just for what they are? :-) > cp >> smartcarclubs.com is an online community of Mercedes Smart Car owners >> and enthusiasts launched in June, 2005. Smarties of the world unite! > >As much as I looooove Smarts (there's relatively quite a bit of them here in Vancouver and I've tried them in Germany) how can it >possibly make any sense financially to buy one? You could get 1.5 very well outfitted and normal cars such as an Echo or Corolla for >the price. Or do people buy them just for what they are? :-) Emm, excuse me for my not well English, I'm Italian and post from Italy. I've got a Mercedes C200 (1994) and I've bought a Smart in 2002 for a lot reason. I don't know American road (I suppose big and large) but here in Italy the road of city are small e there is a lot of traffic and few less parking for car. With a smart I can parking everywere! :-) Olso the gasoline in Italy isn't cheap and with Smart I can do 21 Kilometer-liter and over at 80km/h! Then Smart is more tecnology car with a small Mercedes Engine (599 CC), 3 cylinder, a gear box automatic-sequenziale with 6 speed, an incredible solid cell named "Tridion" for passenger secure. Then smart is for me a funny car with rear traction and a beautiful design. Ehi, I've got a website for Smart: www.smartdriver.it The site is recent and for the moment is only wrote in Italian but if you want you can see gatherings of Smart in Europe. In Italy Smart are much popular (for me is the machine that has replaced Fiat 500) and Italian love this car! :-) >cp Bye, Matteo That is exactly the point. Apparently it sells really well in Rome and Paris (but not enough to make a profit). There are also quite a few in London. (But give me an Alfa Romeo 147 any day -- even with inferior reliability -- a real bello automobile. http://www.alfaromeo.com/cgi-bin/pbrand.dll/ALFAROMEO_COM/models/models.jsp?BV_S essionID=@@@@1984199601.1119129564@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccdaddeljeeggkcefecejgdfiidg nf.0&categoryOID=-1073784434) In which city do you live? DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] but here in Italy the road of city are small e there is a lot of > traffic and few less parking for car. With a smart I can parking > everywere! :-) Olso the gasoline in Italy isn't cheap and with Smart I > can do 21 Kilometer-liter and over at 80km/h! > Then Smart is more tecnology car with a small Mercedes Engine (599 > CC), 3 cylinder, a gear box automatic-sequenziale with 6 speed, an > incredible solid cell named "Tridion" for passenger secure. [...] >That is exactly the point. Apparently it sells really well in Rome and >Paris (but not enough to make a profit). There are also quite a few in >London. Yes, I think that Smart is a car for Europe city because American road doesn't need this car. >(But give me an Alfa Romeo 147 any day -- even with inferior reliability -- >a real bello automobile. >http://www.alfaromeo.com/cgi-bin/pbrand.dll/ALFAROMEO_COM/models/models.jsp?BV_S essionID=@@@@1984199601.1119129564@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccdaddeljeeggkcefecejgdfiidg nf.0&categoryOID=-1073784434) Alfa Romeo is a very Italian car! :-) A great car! :-) >In which city do you live? Near Bologna. >DAS > >For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling Bye, Matteo I expect to be passing nearby next month: holiday in Limone di Garda and then Florence. I am going to try to rent an Alfa again, like last year. :-) DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > Near Bologna. >I expect to be passing nearby next month: holiday in Limone di Garda and >then Florence. I am going to try to rent an Alfa again, like last year. Great! :-) If you can you make a short visit Bologna is one beautiful city. It is not famous as Florence but it deserves a visit. :-) For Alfa, you can to try to rent Alfa GT, great coupè, much better than 147! :-) >:-) >DAS Bye, Matteo. I agree (about Bologna). I have actually briefly visited the city and I might make another pit stop if my family accept it. However, I was thinking of going to Modena instead and maybe passing a well-known red-sports-car factory... I need to get the address off the website (when I get the time). I am not sure Avis have GTs. The first difficulty is to persuade the car-hire company to reserve a specific model. Last year I asked for the Alfa 147 and they actually kept it for me, amazingly. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > Great! :-) > If you can you make a short visit Bologna is one beautiful city. It [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Bye, Matteo. >I agree (about Bologna). I have actually briefly visited the city and I >might make another pit stop if my family accept it. Well, you will have noticed that Bologna is famous in Italy for the towers (There are many scattered for the city) and is the city where is eaten very well why it is in the specific culture of this region of Italy! :-) >However, I was thinking of going to Modena instead and maybe passing a >well-known red-sports-car factory... I need to get the address off the >website (when I get the time). Modena is a beautiful city, center of the Maserati but if you want to see "the red ones" you must go to Maranello! : -) >I am not sure Avis have GTs. The first difficulty is to persuade the >car-hire company to reserve a specific model. Last year I asked for the >Alfa 147 and they actually kept it for me, amazingly. I have watched on the Avis website but they do not say nothing of Alfa GT. But sure they will have Alfa 147 restyiling, similar to that one that you have tried but improved also in the aesthetic one. >DAS Bye, Matteo That's true. My mistake, which I would have discovered when searching for the address... Ciao, as they say DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > Modena is a beautiful city, center of the Maserati but if you want to > see "the red ones" you must go to Maranello! : -) [...] >That's true. My mistake, which I would have discovered when searching for >the address... Excuse me, but I don't succeed to understand, which address you refer? >Ciao, as they say >DAS If you want I speak you in Italian...:-) Bye, Matteo Address of the manufacturer of famous red cars, as mentioned before. Unfortunately my Italian is almost zero. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- >>That's true. My mistake, which I would have discovered when searching for >>the address... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Bye, Matteo >Address of the manufacturer of famous red cars, as mentioned before. Here the addresses: Ferrari Factory: 41053 MARANELLO (mo) - VIA ABETONE INFERIORE 4 tel: 0536 934511, 0536 949111 Ferrari gallery: Via Dino Ferrari 43 - 41053 Maranello (MO) Tel. 0536 943204 - Fax 0536 949714 galleria@ferrari.it www.galleria.ferrari.com >Unfortunately my Italian is almost zero. Not to proccupare to you, I was joking! :-) >DAS Bye, Matteo Thanks for the info! (Late reply as I was abroad 22 - 30 Jun. Hired a Chevrolet Aveo -- a Daewoo in fact -- must rank among the most boring-looking cars I have ever hired.) DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- >>Address of the manufacturer of famous red cars, as mentioned before. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Bye, Matteo >Thanks for the info! It's a pleausure , watches if the address of the Ferrari you don't ask it to an Italian to who you want to ask it? : -) >(Late reply as I was abroad 22 - 30 Jun. Hired a Chevrolet Aveo -- a Daewoo >in fact -- must rank among the most boring-looking cars I have ever hired.) There are car that give emotions to guide them and others that only serve in order to go from a point to the other. >DAS Bye, Matteo I should have qualified that with what sense does it make to buy them here in North America. Or are they only allowed in Canada? >> smartcarclubs.com is an online community of Mercedes Smart Car owners >> and enthusiasts launched in June, 2005. Smarties of the world unite! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > cp Also in North America there are ABSURDLY LARGE SUVs that will decimate a 'SMART' upon impact! I even feel small in comparison in my W116 next to some of these.Can't even describe what a GEO Metro looks like after a collision,heck can't even tell it was a GEO Metro half the time! >Also in North America there are ABSURDLY LARGE SUVs that will decimate >a 'SMART' upon >impact! I even feel small in comparison in my W116 >next to some of these.Can't even describe what a >GEO Metro looks like after a collision,heck can't even tell it was a >GEO Metro half the time! I know in America there are a lot of SUV. is not good for Smart becouse the weight and the mass of the Smart are too much inferior to those of a SUV. on Internet you can see some crash test of the Smart against the S class and will see that the Smart of is not exited badly, the energy that must dissipate the Smart in the impact too much is elevated. We figure ourselves against a SUV. Task that the Smart is an car for the European market and not for the habits of guide of the Americans. I do not understand why loved a lot the SUV. In Europe and especially in Italy we prefer the pleasure of the guide. Task that with a SUV, is constructed cannot compete with one low and wide car. Bye, Matteo. > I do not understand why loved a lot the SUV. Stupidity. That only applies to the people driving gas guzzler SUVs that are choking our air. Though they're nowhere near as bad as American vans and SUVs of 10-20 years ago which would take 25l-30l/100km. Couldn't care how much it costs the driver but they're burning up a non-renewable resource and choking the world. Of course, I have nothing against fuel efficient SUVs, known as off-road vehicles in the days when people where not afraid to drive over a puddle. cp It tickles me when I see short owners struggle getting in and out of their SUVs and checking their fluid levels! > It tickles me when I see short owners struggle getting in and out of > their SUVs and checking their fluid levels! SUV ladders, next big thing!! Cr@p, I'm 6'3 and I'd get lost in a SUV engine bay! cp another problem is that these short people (a 5'2" 50'ish lady in my case) have no clue how to drive these big SUV/VAN/TRUCK's. She was out in the intersection to make a left turn - the light changed to red and she thought better of it and started backing up into .... me. I'm on my horn full tilt for the full time she was backing up slowly.... crunched my whole front end. She had no clue .... didn't see me, didn't hear me ... nothing ... totally oblivious to the outside world. guenter >It tickles me when I see short owners struggle getting in and out of >their SUVs and checking their >fluid levels! > another problem is that these short people (a 5'2" 50'ish lady in my case) > have no clue how to drive these big SUV/VAN/TRUCK's. She was out in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > She had no clue .... didn't see me, didn't hear me ... nothing ... totally > oblivious to the outside world. oh yeah? Wait until she backs OVER you in this next generation of SUV/trucks. The word to describe is insane. http://www.internationaldelivers.com/site_layout/XTFamily/index.asp As these don't take regular trailers they probably don't need air brakes, so anyone perhaps might get them. Imagine that woman backed into you with one of them :-) cp > It tickles me when I see short owners struggle getting in and out of > their SUVs and checking their > fluid levels! I'd like to see them get out and check the fluids of this next generation of SUV/trucks http://www.internationaldelivers.com/site_layout/XTFamily/rxt.asp It's just sick, but gotta commend International, I was thinking of doing up a rig like this myself :-) cp >> I do not understand why loved a lot the SUV. > >Stupidity. That only applies to the people driving gas guzzler SUVs that are choking our air. Though they're nowhere near as bad as >American vans and SUVs of 10-20 years ago which would take 25l-30l/100km. Couldn't care how much it costs the driver but they're >burning up a non-renewable resource and choking the world. Of course, I have nothing against fuel efficient SUVs, known as off-road >vehicles in the days when people where not afraid to drive over a puddle. Unfortunately, also in Italy the fashion is bursting here of the SUV, but the roads of our cities they are not adapted for this type of car, therefore like the parkings. I do not love these cars and of it I discuss their street behavior. Sure high and tyre with high shoulder they do not influence positively on the guide. Moreover the consumptions are too much elevate. Moreover in crash tests the crash between car turns out dangerous and suv, it plays all on the mass and dimensions. >cp Bye, Matteo > Unfortunately, also in Italy the fashion is bursting here of the SUV, > but the roads of our cities they are not adapted for this type of car, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Moreover in crash tests the crash between car turns out dangerous and > suv, it plays all on the mass and dimensions. DO NOT let SUVs into your country!!! Perhaps the Smart sized SUV, and the G-Wagens... Matteo, on the Italian autostradas, is there a speed limit? I understand the autostradas are private.. cp See below. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > Matteo, on the Italian autostradas, is there a speed limit? Yes, but who cares? This is Italy :-) >I understand the autostradas are private.. True. >> Matteo, on the Italian autostradas, is there a speed limit? > >Yes, but who cares? This is Italy :-) Yes, in Italy everything is cares... Bye, Matteo See below. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- >>> Matteo, on the Italian autostradas, is there a speed limit? >> >>Yes, but who cares? This is Italy :-) > > Yes, in Italy everything is cares... Matteo, I am not sure what you mean, but my point is that very many people in Italy ignore the speed limits .... just like in Britain... :-) >See below. >Matteo, I am not sure what you mean, but my point is that very many people >in Italy ignore the speed limits .... just like in Britain... :-) I had not understood well but now that you explained I must say that you have reason! :-) Bye, Matteo hmmmm, will have to schedule a stop in Italy soon :) > See below. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > True. You'll be tailgated by so many Fiats, Alfas and the like that you won't get a chance to stop... DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- > hmmmm, will have to schedule a stop in Italy soon :) [...] > You'll be tailgated by so many Fiats, Alfas and the like that you won't get a chance to stop... THAT's the way to drive! Here in Vancouver, with all the oblivious minions driving V6 and V8 automatics; the light turns red by the time I can get moving 10 cars back when the light turns green. 190km/h bumper-bumper I don't mind. At least in Europe they know how to use their power. cp > 190km/h bumper-bumper I don't mind. I guess you have not learned your lesson and are due for another accident... Marty >> 190km/h bumper-bumper I don't mind. > > I guess you have not learned your lesson and are due for another accident... Accident? I had bald tires and slipped on gravel on a corner and took out a little sign. Parts and labour for the audi was 636CAD Anyways, 190 in bumper to bumper traffic that in Europe, not in vancouver, I get scared driving here, with all the off-the-boat asians here who buy their licences. cp >hmmmm, will have to schedule a stop in Italy soon :) Probably I'm a little part inasmuch as I'm Italian, but Italy is a beutiful country to visit :-) Bye, Matteo >DO NOT let SUVs into your country!!! Perhaps the Smart sized SUV, and the G-Wagens... What can I do?..., the SUV in Italy is becoming a fashion here and Italian we follow the mode, even if this would be better not to follow it... >Matteo, on the Italian autostradas, is there a speed limit? I understand the autostradas are private.. Yes, exact the freeways are private. There are various societies but the more important is "Autostrade S.P.A.". The maximum limit of speed is 130 Km/h >cp Bye, Matteo > Also in North America there are ABSURDLY LARGE SUVs that will decimate > a 'SMART' upon impact! Decimate a Smart...heck I seen one of them new Dodge next to an older Ford F150, the Dodge would decimate the F150! cp "cp" <asdf@asdf.com> haute in die Tasten: > how can it > possibly make any sense financially to buy one? You could get 1.5 > very well outfitted and normal cars such as an Echo or Corolla for > the price. Or do people buy them just for what they are? :-) I do not know the retail prices for smart cars in Canada, but in Germany the suggested retail price including VAT starts at 9.100 Euro, which is approx. 10.900 USD. For that money you get a car with semi-automatic gearbox, power windows, power locks, ASB, ESP, dual airbags, Euro 4 emission standards and very low operating cost. A 3 door Toyota Corolla starts at 14.550 Euro, which is some 50% more than what you have to pay for a smart. If you look at the supermicro cars you can buy for a starting price of less than 10.000 Euros, most of them are strange korean tin cans or rather old and unsafe cars like the Ford Ka or the Fiat Seicento. One can very well discuss the question wether a basic smart is a good car - but it is amongst the cheapest ways to get yourself moved in a new vehicle. If you want to spend subdtantially less money, you have to buy either an used car or a new motorscooter;-) Besides that there are many (not many enough) people, who love the smart. It is extremely short and handy (important for crowded european streets). I live in Munich and I know many people who spend 20-30 minutes per day to find a parking gap for their car. A car 5 feet shorter than usual can drastically reduce this time. Smart's problem is quickly told. Their infrastructure starts earning money when they sell more than 200.000 units per year. Up to now they have only succeded in selling 80.000 per year. In my eyes the additional smart types roadster and forfour are not revolutionary enough, and the classical smart failed to incorporate such innovations as electric or hybrid drive, fuel cell and such. Frank  Signatureplease replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen - Made in Trance >> how can it >> possibly make any sense financially to buy one? You could get 1.5 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I do not know the retail prices for smart cars in Canada, but in Germany the suggested > retail price including VAT starts at 9.100 Euro, which is approx. 10.900 USD. For that For Euro earnings that's a good price but in Canada after all is said and done the smart comes to around 16.000USD. Some people have paid almost 20K USD but then they went overboard on everything. > money you get a car with semi-automatic gearbox, power windows, power locks, ASB, ESP, > dual airbags, Euro 4 emission standards and very low operating cost. A 3 door Toyota [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > in a new vehicle. If you want to spend subdtantially less money, you have to buy either > an used car or a new motorscooter;-) yep. > Besides that there are many (not many enough) people, who love the smart. It is > extremely short and handy (important for crowded european streets). I live in Munich > and I know many people who spend 20-30 minutes per day to find a parking gap for their > car. A car 5 feet shorter than usual can drastically reduce this time. I remember trying to park a smart in Hamburg and when I stopped panic struck when I thought what if I screw the parralel park in a smart? :-) My friend said "what parallel park, just park it!", yeh, just park it, no problem :) > Smart's problem is quickly told. Their infrastructure starts earning money when they > sell more than 200.000 units per year. Up to now they have only succeded in selling > 80.000 per year. In my eyes the additional smart types roadster and forfour are not > revolutionary enough, and the classical smart failed to incorporate such innovations as > electric or hybrid drive, fuel cell and such. Maybe they shouldn't bother with all the other models, it's a simple car, why dillute it with all the various models? forfour? Might as well just get a regular small car. They should just stick to the basic concept and get it right. Isn't it too early for fuel cells? As for hybrid drive, what benefits would that bring? It's a tiny car, it'd just complicate it more. cp > For Euro earnings that's a good price but in Canada after all is said and done the smart comes to around 16.000USD. Some people have > paid almost 20K USD but then they went overboard on everything. Surprisingly enough it's 9000 EURO's in Holland as well. That's after our 50% car tax + 19% VAT. Normally even European cars are cheaper in the US than in Holland AFAIK. Point is, net prices of new cars vary a lot in Europe too. I've heard many stories of the Smart engines having big problems with oil consumption. Apparently bad enough to need replacement engines after a relatively short while. Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html >> For Euro earnings that's a good price but in Canada after all is said and done the smart comes to around 16.000USD. Some people >> have paid almost 20K USD but then they went overboard on everything. > > Surprisingly enough it's 9000 EURO's in Holland as well. That's after our 50% car tax + 19% VAT. 9000 TOTAL? Not bad, not bad at all, and you guys make better money than we do. > Normally even European cars are cheaper in the US than in Holland AFAIK. > Point is, net prices of new cars vary a lot in Europe too. Yeh, the smart sure makes sense in Europe alright. Here in Vancouver, BC, I see about 2-3 per day and growing, which for us is a lot. Though in Europe they're all over :) > I've heard many stories of the Smart engines having big problems with oil consumption. Apparently bad enough to need replacement > engines after a relatively short while. Maybe they should put them trusty om617 engines into them :-) cp |
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