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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / September 2005

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Unimog fans look here...

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Dori A Schmetterling - 05 Sep 2005 12:27 GMT
Is the International CXT an alternative to Unimog?  Or is it too ridiculous?

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22750-1762174_1,00.html

DAS

           Super size me
           By Jay Leno
           International CXT

                       Daniel Byrne

           I'm not really a pick-up truck kind of guy. But I guess however
many million owners in the States can't all be wrong. So I thought I would
give them a go.
           There's nothing particularly sophisticated about these vehicles.
They are meant to go 300,000 miles with no more than rudimentary
maintenance. In the Midwest, where you find most of them, there are no
corners to go around so you don't need independent suspension to aid
handling and you're not really planning on stopping, so the brakes you've
got are probably okay.

           In short they're big, dependable, unbreakable Tonka toys. You
could hit these things all day with a hammer and I don't think you could
screw them up.

           In the US the pick-up has come to symbolise the American spirit
of adventure. I remember the early adverts used to show six horses, a guy
and his truck; then about 10 years ago it was two horses, a guy and his
truck. Now it's just one horse in the background, a guy and his truck. The
trucks have taken over from the cowboy and his horse in personifying the old
values of rugged reliability and frontier adventure.

           Of course today big trucks are everywhere in America. The whole
SUV thing started because the US government, about 15 years ago, put a tax
on luxury automobiles. Anything above $30,000 paid a luxury tax, but trucks
were exempt. So America, being an enterprising country, said: "Why don't we
just make a luxury truck?" They started making trucks with heated seats,
surround sound and fancy wood finishes. You could get the luxury car for
$40,000 or you could get the truck with the same amenities for about
$34,000. It was simple: get the truck.

           The International CXT is the ultimate evolution of this. There
is no bigger pick-up truck in the world. It's huge. It weighs 14,500lb
empty. It's so big it doesn't fit in any known garage. In fact, when I drove
it home it didn't even fit in my driveway. So I decided to park it at my
mother-in-law's house down the street.

           As I pulled into her driveway I said to myself: "Oh look,
there's
a ball on the roof of her house." Then I thought: "I've never seen that ball
up there." In fact I've never seen her roof before. The CXT's cab height is
9ft. The bed height - the flat rear section - is nearly 5ft, making it
virtually impossible to load anything heavy on your own, and the whole truck
is over 21ft long.

                              When you are sitting 9ft off the ground, with
a huge steering wheel in front of you, no matter how ridiculous you may
think it is you just can't help but have a huge smile on your face

                             Jay Leno

           It's just ridiculous. It doesn't make any sense at all. In fact
it reaches new levels of impracticality, which of course is what makes it so
much fun. I don't know where you would go in it. I don't know what you would
haul in it. I don't even know what sort of people you could drive in it
while keeping a straight face. But that's the beauty of it: when you are
sitting 9ft off the ground, with a huge steering wheel in front of you, no
matter how ridiculous you may think it is you just can't help but have a
huge smile on your face.

           And it has all the proper truck extras, too. It has that metal
thing you have to have on the top of the vertical exhaust pipe that opens
and closes as the exhaust smoke pumps out, and goes clang, clang, clang,
clang. You gotta have that. It has that big pshshshshshsh sound with the
brakes, too.

           It actually handles pretty good. There's a lot of play and
there's
a lot of movement in everything. It's very honest and it's somewhat
reassuring. It's also pretty manoeuvrable. I even managed to spin it. I was
going down the road in the pouring rain, there was nobody around, so I hit
the brakes, turned the wheel and pulled off a perfect 180-degree spin;
turned it right around and went back the other way. So in my book that makes
it really controllable, even in bad weather.

           At the time I was driving it we had just had some pretty bad
flooding in LA. Nothing like the New Orleans nightmare but cars were
literally submerged. One time I went through a particularly bad patch where
I could see just the roof of a Honda Accord from my cab - or maybe it was an
Acura - and the water wasn't even up to the tops of my tyres.

           The International people told me the CXT is based on a 20-ton
hauler platform they use for "severe service" trucks, like snowploughs. It's
got four-wheel drive and an Allison 2500 HS five-speed automatic. Put that
all together and it means this thing'll go just about anywhere.

But at a cost. The base price is $90,000, and you can option it up to
$115,000 with individual leather multiposition front seats, a rear-view
camera and a 10Åin drop-down rear DVD screen. Then there's the fancy stuff
like walnut wood trim and a custom Alpine XM satellite radio. I think it
will pick up stuff other than country and western, but I wouldn't advise it!
I think it comes from the manufacturer tuned that way.
Most vehicles have cupholders that carry 8-12oz cups. The CXT has a
cupholder that will take a 44oz Super Big Gulp bucket of drink you can get
from convenience stores. That's bigger than your bladder.

There are advantages to having a truck like this. Like pulling up alongside
beautiful women in convertibles. You get that cleavage shot that you can't
get in a normal pick-up. But the CXT is not just a ticket to play at being
trucker. Driving it you really are a trucker. I filled it up at a station
that has two separate pumping areas. The regular diesel pump is next to the
petrol pump for cars. Then off to the side is another pump marked "Truckers
Only". When I pulled up to that one the guys in the 18-wheelers came over
and gave me the thumbs up and the old nod, like, "Bear in the air,
breaker-breaker, 10-4, good buddy." You also get to eat in the truck-stop
restaurant. You pull in with this rig and you just know the waitress is
gonna slip you some extra hash browns.

Mind you, that's all we need. Americans are getting more and more fat-assed.
I mentioned on my show recently that the big thing when they remodel
American homes these days is to put a small kitchen in the master bedroom.
What is the reason behind that? Walking, at least from the bedroom to the
kitchen, was the most exercise most Americans ever got. Now you just sit in
bed and reach over and eat.

          MORE FROM JAY LENO

          It's the supercar you can fix with a hammer

          Son of a gun: that Mustang spirit reborn

          Bentley, you're back!

          Look Dad, I've got a cool Cadillac too

You could put a small kitchen in the back of the CXT. Heck, you could put a
large kitchen in the back. That compartment is really as big as some
one-bedroom apartments. It's one of the few vehicles I've had which, when I
take people out in it, I have to look around the entire truck to see if
there are people in seats I've missed. I took some friends to lunch and I'm
going, "Where's John?" "Over here!" "Oh jeez, in that little corner down
there." It's that big inside.

It's a car that really doesn't fit anywhere other than Texas. It pulls into
town and makes all the right noises and people kind of gravitate over to it.
"Wutcha cawl that thing?" When I think of Britain I think of Minis and this
is what you think of when you think of Texas. Everything's bigger in Texas.
My dream would be to take this truck to England and drive around the
Cotswolds and stop the most English-looking person and say: "Excuse me,
we're
Americans. Is there a McDonald's near here?" If you parked this on the
street and asked someone who knew nothing about it where it was from they
would say America. I mean, you know it's American.

But I think the CXT is the end of the road as far as pick-ups go. Other than
something with 18 wheels, I don't know how you get any bigger. I haven't met
an owner yet, but knowing Texans that's only a matter of time.

VITAL STATISTICS

Model International CXT
Engine 7600cc, six cylinders
Power  220bhp @ 2200rpm
Torque 540 lb ft @ 1400rpm
Transmission  Five-speed automatic
Fuel 8-10mpg (combined cycle)
CO2 N/A
Acceleration 0-60mph: N/A
Top speed 70mph
Price $90,000
Verdict One big truck
Rating 5/5

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---

greek_philosophizer - 05 Sep 2005 14:15 GMT
> Is the International CXT an alternative to Unimog?  Or is it too ridiculous?
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> could hit these things all day with a hammer and I don't think you could
> screw them up.

Jay Leno does London Times automotive reviews?

I wonder what his motivation is?

The Pick Up looks like fun but I prefer van bodies
because you can take more supplies.

.
Dori A Schmetterling - 05 Sep 2005 14:42 GMT
The publication is the Driving supplement of the Sunday Times, so it isn't
in a daily paper.  They get all kinds of people to review cars.  Jeremy
Clarkson has got a bad back and is not allowed to drive...I don't know how
he is doing reviews, but he is away at the moment anyway.

For example, model Jodie Kidd.  Turned out she was training to be a racing
driver and participates in car meets.
http://www.fashiongates.com/magazine/jodie-kidd-08-12-04.html

And look at the cute kid they get to write about macho motorbikes:
http://www.tonyclayman.com/jane.htm
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/section/0,,20629,00.html

The Sunday Times is the UK's best-selling 'quality' Sunday paper by a long
chalk.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[...]

> Jay Leno does London Times automotive reviews?
>
> I wonder what his motivation is?
[...]
Peter W Peternouschek - 05 Sep 2005 20:06 GMT
If this beast is taken into the mud it would probably bury itself......The
Unimog still wins as an all terrain vehicle..
Peter

> Is the International CXT an alternative to Unimog?  Or is it too ridiculous?
>
[quoted text clipped - 173 lines]
> For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
> ---
greek_philosophizer - 05 Sep 2005 21:39 GMT
This is one of the reasons the Unimog
would sell well as an SUV.  I think they
were going to do that until certain elements
complained about the extravagance.  Put
a big CDI in it and everybody would be happy.

.
cp - 06 Sep 2005 08:16 GMT
The International CXT is to the Unimog as Arnold Schwarzenegger is to an Olympic gymnast. Schwarzenegger has strength but an Olympic
gymnast has strength and agility.

No comparison.

cp

> Is the International CXT an alternative to Unimog?  Or is it too ridiculous?
>
[quoted text clipped - 169 lines]
> Verdict One big truck
> Rating 5/5
Frank Kemper - 07 Sep 2005 00:34 GMT
"cp" <asdf@asdf.com> haute in die Tasten:

> The International CXT is to the Unimog as Arnold Schwarzenegger
> is to an Olympic gymnast. Schwarzenegger has strength but an
> Olympic gymnast has strength and agility.

NACK. If you take both cars into heavy off road terrain, you will
find that the Unimog is a high mobility all terrain vehicle, while
this ridiculous pile of iron is just a truck with a pickup bed.

And if you are a guy who can be impressed by a CXT, I'd suggest a
ride in a MAN LX 2000 (a.k.a. MAN Kat. 1). We are talking about an
8x8 chassis with independend wheel suspension on all wheels, a
turbocharged 12,6 litre diesel engine with up to 430 hp and a 16
speed gearbox with hydraulic torqe converter. Back in the late 70's
and early 80's US Army decided to choose this vehicle over the
Oskosh, when they needed a firm base for the mobile launchpad for the
pershing medium range nuclear missiles;-)

If you just do not know where you have left your pershing, you can
also use the MAN Kat. 1 as a nice mobil home:

http://www.berlin-breslau.de/event/images/Im000078.jpg

I once drove such a beast during a MAN all terrain vehicle
demonstration. I will never ever forget that.

Frank

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cp - 08 Sep 2005 05:35 GMT
>> The International CXT is to the Unimog as Arnold Schwarzenegger
>> is to an Olympic gymnast. Schwarzenegger has strength but an
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> find that the Unimog is a high mobility all terrain vehicle, while
> this ridiculous pile of iron is just a truck with a pickup bed.

That's exactly what I meant, I guess my analogy was clear as mud :-)

> And if you are a guy who can be impressed by a CXT, I'd suggest a
> ride in a MAN LX 2000 (a.k.a. MAN Kat. 1). We are talking about an
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Oskosh, when they needed a firm base for the mobile launchpad for the
> pershing medium range nuclear missiles;-)

Now that's a REAL MAN's truck!

I want a MAN!!

cp
Frank Kemper - 08 Sep 2005 23:09 GMT
"cp" <asdf@asdf.com> haute in die Tasten:

> I want a MAN!!

If you are a skilled DIY mechanic, they are not too far out of reach.
German Army sells them for some 12.000 dollars or so.

Frank

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cp - 09 Sep 2005 07:59 GMT
> If you are a skilled DIY mechanic, they are not too far out of reach.
> German Army sells them for some 12.000 dollars or so.

Yes, but it has to be 15 years old in order import into Canada, maybe if I bought it in pieces....

Can I just walk up to the Wehrmacht/Bundeswehr and ask for a MAN? Maybe take one for a test drive?

cp
Frank Kemper - 09 Sep 2005 23:55 GMT
"cp" <asdf@asdf.com> haute in die Tasten:

> Can I just walk up to the Wehrmacht/Bundeswehr and ask for a
> MAN? Maybe take one for a test drive?

Been absent during history lessons in school? Wehrmacht was before
1945;-)

German Federal Armed Forces (a. k. a. Bundeswehr, abbrev. BW) sort
out the parts of its equipment which are suitable for selling (i.e.
no weapons or classified technology) and transfer them to a company
called Vebeg. Vebeg is a federal agency, which sells all sorts of
federal equipment, wholesale or retail. They also have a web site
(wwww.vebeg.de), which includes an english version.

Dealing with Vebeg isn't very comfortable. You have to send an offer
for the item you want to buy and wait, until they tell you wether you
have succeded. There are dealers who have focussed on used military
trucks, try this link: www.padh.de

Unfortunately I have estimated the price for an used MAN Kat.1 truck
wrong. The smallest version (4x4, 5 tons payload) start at 15.000
Euros. And if you decide to buy a big 8x8, be prepared that you might
need a clearance from the german foreign trade authorities to export
this piece of military technology. But you also can buy them directly
from MAN, new of course;-)

Frank
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cp - 10 Sep 2005 08:16 GMT
Hi Frank,

>> Can I just walk up to the Wehrmacht/Bundeswehr and ask for a
>> MAN? Maybe take one for a test drive?
>
> Been absent during history lessons in school? Wehrmacht was before
> 1945;-)

Same thing!! :-) I'm Polish, I said that on purpose! :-))))

As for the history they teach us in Canada, it's that Canada won WWII :-)

Thanks for the links, my father is in Germany buying some diesels benzes, maybe I'll send the links to him, though I doubt I'll find
a MAN LX 200 under the Christmas tree this year :-)

You know of any other site with pics of the 8x8 MAN? I looked on google but no luck of anything interesting

Thank you again!

cp
Frank Kemper - 10 Sep 2005 15:25 GMT
"cp" <asdf@asdf.com> haute in die Tasten:

> You know of any other site with pics of the 8x8 MAN? I looked on
> google but no luck of anything interesting

I googled myself. The search term "LX 2000" did not bring suitable
results. Try "MAN Kat.1 " or "MAN GL 5to", "MAN GL 7,5to" or "MAN GL
10to" instead.

Frank

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Hernando Correa - 10 Sep 2005 16:59 GMT
> "cp" <asdf@asdf.com> haute in die Tasten:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Frank

I tried some of the suggested links.  Awesome sites and they have
realistic engine sounds to boot!  Wish I could read German though.
cp - 10 Sep 2005 18:56 GMT
>> I googled myself. The search term "LX 2000" did not bring suitable results. Try "MAN Kat.1 " or "MAN GL 5to", "MAN GL 7,5to" or
>> "MAN GL 10to" instead.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I tried some of the suggested links.  Awesome sites and they have realistic engine sounds to boot!  Wish I could read German
> though.

http://babelfish.altavista.com

ahhhhhhhhhh I wish I was thinking and dreaming in German again :-)

cp
Hernando Correa - 11 Sep 2005 01:25 GMT
>>>I googled myself. The search term "LX 2000" did not bring suitable results. Try "MAN Kat.1 " or "MAN GL 5to", "MAN GL 7,5to" or
>>>"MAN GL 10to" instead.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> cp

Thanks cp for the tip (link). It's great and it's FREE!
cp - 11 Sep 2005 23:37 GMT
>> http://babelfish.altavista.com
>>
>> ahhhhhhhhhh I wish I was thinking and dreaming in German again :-)
>>
>> cp
> Thanks cp for the tip (link). It's great and it's FREE!

Yeh, though I heard it might be removed soon, I hope not!
cp - 10 Sep 2005 18:55 GMT
okedoke thank you!

>> You know of any other site with pics of the 8x8 MAN? I looked on
>> google but no luck of anything interesting
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Frank
cp - 10 Sep 2005 19:11 GMT
This one looks like the best site

http://www.beepworld.de/members18/saschawolf/man-mil-gl-baureihe.htm

> "cp" <asdf@asdf.com> haute in die Tasten:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Frank
Dori A Schmetterling - 10 Sep 2005 22:16 GMT
It goes at a max of 90 km/h.

But it's probably a bit like the tortoise and the hare.  The tortoise just
keeps going and wins the race.  The MAN keeps going over any hindrances with
its 4x4 even though it has only 320 PS.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

> This one looks like the best site
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>
>> Frank
cp - 11 Sep 2005 23:38 GMT
> It goes at a max of 90 km/h.
>
> But it's probably a bit like the tortoise and the hare.  The tortoise just keeps going and wins the race.  The MAN keeps going
> over any hindrances with its 4x4 even though it has only 320 PS.

Though it has probably as much torque as a small locomotive, I wouldn't mind one, would just drive over all them dumb SUVs here :-)

cp
cp - 12 Sep 2005 06:01 GMT
>> You know of any other site with pics of the 8x8 MAN? I looked on
>> google but no luck of anything interesting
>>
> I googled myself. The search term "LX 2000" did not bring suitable
> results. Try "MAN Kat.1 " or "MAN GL 5to", "MAN GL 7,5to" or "MAN GL
> 10to" instead.

This search did the trick man 8x8

cp
cp - 08 Sep 2005 05:49 GMT
> If you just do not know where you have left your pershing, you can
> also use the MAN Kat. 1 as a nice mobil home:
>
> http://www.berlin-breslau.de/event/images/Im000078.jpg

OTOH, if I was going to get something so big, I'd get a Kamaz or Tatra, Paris-Dakar rally champions

cp
Frank Kemper - 08 Sep 2005 23:16 GMT
"cp" <asdf@asdf.com> haute in die Tasten:

> OTOH, if I was going to get something so big, I'd get a Kamaz or
> Tatra, Paris-Dakar rally champions

AFAIK MAN has also succeded several times in Rallye Paris Dakar.
During my test ride with one 8x8 MAN LX 2000 I was accompanied by a
professional driver from MAN, who had taken part six times at the
Rallye. After my turn we changed seats and then he showed me how to
move the truck appropriately. It was absolutely incredible. I also
test drove a Tatra Jamal 6x6 heavy tipper in a mining site near
Plzen/Czech republic. These cars are extremely sturdy, but the
ergonomics really is 3rd world;-)

Frank

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cp - 09 Sep 2005 08:01 GMT
>> OTOH, if I was going to get something so big, I'd get a Kamaz or
>> Tatra, Paris-Dakar rally champions
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Plzen/Czech republic. These cars are extremely sturdy, but the
> ergonomics really is 3rd world;-)

Wow, do you do this stuff in your spare time or are you a pro driver?

Probably could pick up a lot of girls with a MAN LX 2000..... though my wife would not approve.

cp
Frank Kemper - 10 Sep 2005 00:00 GMT
"cp" <asdf@asdf.com> haute in die Tasten:

> Wow, do you do this stuff in your spare time or are you a pro
> driver?

I am journalist, and from 1997 to 1999 I used to work in a test team,
which provided articles about commercial vehicles. My special topics
were off road vehicles, trailers and semi-trailers. Those two years
were mostly fun, but the boss was no fun at all:-(

Frank

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cp - 10 Sep 2005 08:18 GMT
>> Wow, do you do this stuff in your spare time or are you a pro
>> driver?
>
> I am journalist, and from 1997 to 1999 I used to work in a test team,
> which provided articles about commercial vehicles. My special topics
> were off road vehicles, trailers and semi-trailers. Those two years

wow! The AutoBild papers perhaps? I love those!!  For off-roading what vehicles are generally the best? We did some stuff here last
week here in the mountains in BC, woulda loved a g-wagen or something. I tell you, BC is off-road country.

> were mostly fun, but the boss was no fun at all:-(

:-)
Frank Kemper - 10 Sep 2005 15:27 GMT
"cp" <asdf@asdf.com> haute in die Tasten:

> The AutoBild papers perhaps?

No. My articles were published in "Verkehrsrundschau", "Transporting"
and "Trucker". Besides that I was responsible for the production of a
400 page catalog called "Nutzfahrzeugkatalog".

Frank

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Dori A Schmetterling - 10 Sep 2005 15:56 GMT
Do you think you would have preferred a Jeremy Clarkson-type job?

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[...]

> No. My articles were published in "Verkehrsrundschau", "Transporting"
> and "Trucker". Besides that I was responsible for the production of a
> 400 page catalog called "Nutzfahrzeugkatalog".
>
> Frank
cp - 10 Sep 2005 19:14 GMT
> Do you think you would have preferred a Jeremy Clarkson-type job?

I know I would. Though I preferred the previous Top Gear host, it was much more fun. :)

cp
Dori A Schmetterling - 10 Sep 2005 22:18 GMT
Who was that?

I only became aware of Top Gear with JC in charge.

I preferred his previous team, though.

I thought I read in one of these NGs that Top Gear was coming to an end but
when a new series was finally decided on the others were committed to other
jobs.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[...]

> I know I would. Though I preferred the previous Top Gear host, it was much
> more fun. :)
>
> cp
cp - 11 Sep 2005 23:51 GMT
> I only became aware of Top Gear with JC in charge.
>
> I preferred his previous team, though.
>
> I thought I read in one of these NGs that Top Gear was coming to an end but when a new series was finally decided on the others
> were committed to other jobs.

Here's a good article on the show at wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear

Tiff Needell was my favorite, an actual race car driver, the talking was done during the driving, and what driving!

Gotta find re-runs of this.

cp
Dori A Schmetterling - 12 Sep 2005 13:20 GMT
Very interesting link/s.  Never thought of Wikipedia in this context.
Still, JC has been the front man for many years.

It spoiled one of my illusions...  :-( ... as I always speculated that The
Stig might be Tiff Needell, despite his commitments on other programmes.

Anyway, it is Willson and Needell that I liked more in the team with JC.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[...]

> Here's a good article on the show at wikipedia
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> cp
Dori A Schmetterling - 12 Sep 2005 19:27 GMT
.. than the present team members, though they are beginning to grow on me.
It's the way they interact with JC.  QW and TN were more men in their own
right, whereas Richard Hammond and James May are more 'lackeys' looking up
to the great man.

DAS
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---

> Very interesting link/s.  Never thought of Wikipedia in this context.
> Still, JC has been the front man for many years.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>
>> cp
cp - 13 Sep 2005 07:11 GMT
> Very interesting link/s.  Never thought of Wikipedia in this context.

That's what I love about Wikipedia!

> Still, JC has been the front man for many years.
>
> It spoiled one of my illusions...  :-( ... as I always speculated that The Stig might be Tiff Needell, despite his commitments on
> other programmes.
>
> Anyway, it is Willson and Needell that I liked more in the team with JC.

Too much talking with JC in charge! And that Needell fellow was actually funny :-)

cp
Frank Kemper - 10 Sep 2005 23:39 GMT
"Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> haute in die Tasten:

> Do you think you would have preferred a Jeremy Clarkson-type job?

Sorry, Dori, but I do not understand what you mean by "a Jeremy
Clarkson-type job" (my french is even worse...)

Frank

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Alan LeHun - 11 Sep 2005 01:17 GMT
> Sorry, Dori, but I do not understand what you mean by "a Jeremy
> Clarkson-type job" (my french is even worse...)

He's asking if you would like your hair permed by a blind marmoset
monkey that has recently become quadriplegic. Probably due to an
accident involving caravans and lots of pyrotechnics.

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Alan LeHun

Dori A Schmetterling - 11 Sep 2005 13:48 GMT
Jeremy Clarkson is a British motoring journalist who drives all the fabulous
cars, has a motoring column in the UK Sunday Times, presents BBC's Top Gear
etc etc.

I thought you had heard of him, actually.  Sorry for that assumption.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
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> "Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> haute in die Tasten:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Frank
Dori A Schmetterling - 12 Sep 2005 20:25 GMT
Here is a current review as example:
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12529-1772795,00.html

One does need a strong sense of humour, Frank...

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
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> Jeremy Clarkson is a British motoring journalist who drives all the
> fabulous cars, has a motoring column in the UK Sunday Times, presents
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>>
>> Frank
greek_philosophizer - 12 Sep 2005 21:04 GMT
> Here is a current review as example:
> http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12529-1772795,00.html
>
> One does need a strong sense of humour, Frank...

That was colorful and entertaining.

.
greek_philosophizer - 12 Sep 2005 21:11 GMT
or colourful ...
Dori A Schmetterling - 12 Sep 2005 22:51 GMT
Glad you appreciate that, my dear transatlantic neighbour/or...

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

> or colourful ...
Frank Kemper - 13 Sep 2005 22:17 GMT
"Dori A Schmetterling" <ng@nospam.co.uk> haute in die Tasten:

> One does need a strong sense of humour, Frank...

Funny bloke, indeed. But I'd like to see him travelling to winter
sports in his avenger;-)

Actually the Grand Cherokee isn't exactly my favourite type of car,
but I read reviews in Germany which sounded far more friendly about
this car.

Frank

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please replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact

Citroen - Made in Trance

cp - 10 Sep 2005 19:12 GMT
> No. My articles were published in "Verkehrsrundschau", "Transporting"
> and "Trucker". Besides that I was responsible for the production of a
> 400 page catalog called "Nutzfahrzeugkatalog".

ahhhh Yes, I think I bought one of those years ago, interesting line of work you have

cp
 
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