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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / September 2005Petrol busts the pound a litre barrier in the UK
http://r75.sytes.net/ Scroll down a bit. The said unleaded is standard international 95 octane (cf. c. 91 US). North Americans be quiet about your prices... DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- That's US$7.245 per US gallon by my third grade calculations! About US$3.30 per US gallon for 91 grade at local (SF Bay Area) station today (diesel about the same price). > About US$3.30 per US gallon for 91 grade at local (SF Bay Area) station > today (diesel about the same price). Where in the Bay Area? http://www.sanfrangasprices.com/ is quite handy. I'm "heypete" on it. Here in Burlingame, on the Peninsula, diesel's $2.99 at the Eagle Car Wash, though one pump's out of order. Get it while it lasts. That's the same price as their regular gas (87 octane). Everyone else around here has diesel for about the same as premium, ranging from $3.15-$3.40 depending on where you go. Now, if only biodiesel were cheaper...  SignaturePete Stephenson HeyPete.com >> About US$3.30 per US gallon for 91 grade at local (SF Bay Area) station >> today (diesel about the same price). [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Everyone else around here has diesel for about the same as premium, > ranging from $3.15-$3.40 depending on where you go. Most diesel seems to be about $. 30 less than 87 octane in MD. Tom > Most diesel seems to be about $. 30 less than 87 octane in MD. If I send you a bunch of barrels, can you fill them for me and ship 'em back? How much is 87 octane anyway? (Just kidding, though it'd be nice...) SignaturePete Stephenson HeyPete.com >> Most diesel seems to be about $. 30 less than 87 octane in MD. > > If I send you a bunch of barrels, can you fill them for me and ship 'em > back? How much is 87 octane anyway? > > (Just kidding, though it'd be nice...) Roughly $3.15 to $3.35 today - of course it'll change tomorrow! Since I heat with oil, I wonder what that will cost this winter. Tom >>> Most diesel seems to be about $. 30 less than 87 octane in MD. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Tom about the same as the diesel >> Here in Burlingame, on the Peninsula, diesel's $2.99 at the Eagle Car >> Wash, though one pump's out of order. Get it while it lasts. That's the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Most diesel seems to be about $. 30 less than 87 octane in MD. Here in Vancouver, canola cooking oil is $0.10 cheaper per liter than diesel, filling up in the cooking isle is starting to make sense now. cp > Here in Vancouver, canola cooking oil is $0.10 cheaper per liter than > diesel, filling up in the cooking isle is starting to make sense now. Brief update from my previous post: I've found a dino-diesel place that's selling for $2.99 USD/gallon. That's relatively good...I'd like to be ~$1/gallon, but it sure beats $3.40. With straight cooking oil, does it even really need to be filtered, as there's not any residue, right? I've been looking at doing the vegetable oil thing for a while now, but can't spare the cash to get the second tank and all the work done (and I don't feel comfortable fiddling around with fuel lines to do it myself). Processed biodiesel is available for $3.05/gallon in 55 gallon drums (55 gallon minimum purchase, they'll deliver it right to you) from a place nearby...but with dino-diesel at $2.99, at a pump that's easily accessible...well, it means less hassle for me right now. SignaturePete Stephenson HeyPete.com Have you never thought about the stuff in your frying pan? And at McDonald's, you think nothing falls into the vats? And detergents maybe? DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > With straight cooking oil, does it even really need to be filtered, as > there's not any residue, right? [...] > Have you never thought about the stuff in your frying pan? And at > McDonald's, you think nothing falls into the vats? I was thinking more along the lines of store-bought vegetable oil, not waste vegetable oil. Obviously the waste stuff would need to be highly filtered. > And detergents maybe? I was under the impression that vegetable oil and biodiesel have various solvent properties which would negate the need for detergents. SignaturePete Stephenson HeyPete.com Unused oil should not be a problem. By detergents I mean teh washing-up liquids that may be added to the waste oil from washing the facilities (should have made that clearer). DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- >> Have you never thought about the stuff in your frying pan? And at >> McDonald's, you think nothing falls into the vats? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I was under the impression that vegetable oil and biodiesel have various > solvent properties which would negate the need for detergents. > Unused oil should not be a problem. By detergents I mean teh washing-up > liquids that may be added to the waste oil from washing the facilities > (should have made that clearer). Ah, right. Makes sense now. I thought you meant the fuel-additive detergents. SignaturePete Stephenson HeyPete.com > Have you never thought about the stuff in your frying pan? And at > McDonald's, you think nothing falls into the vats? That's used oil. It's cheaper to use new oil straight from the supermarket than to buy diesel. In the UK. But this is mainly due to tax. However, filtering old oil is easy enough. You leave it to settle for a few days. The animal fat floats to the top and the 'bits' to the bottom. So you use the middle. ;-) Signature*If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already? Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > However, filtering old oil is easy enough. You leave it to settle for a > few days. The animal fat floats to the top and the 'bits' to the bottom. > So you use the middle. ;-) Yeh, it's amazing what crud is left over. I let 16 liters settle and 1/3 of it were solids. What cr@p they feed us. Heating the oil for an hour or so quickens the process, the whole mess seperates into three parts, water at the bottom, then the gunk, then the clean oil. cp >>Here in Vancouver, canola cooking oil is $0.10 cheaper per liter than >>diesel, filling up in the cooking isle is starting to make sense now. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > nearby...but with dino-diesel at $2.99, at a pump that's easily > accessible...well, it means less hassle for me right now. Adding cooking oil to diesel is a not uncommon event in the Land Rover world here in the UK. Most people simply add anything upto 20% cooking oil to a tank full of normal diesel and aside from an odd smell from the exhaust you don't notice the difference. If you go the separate tank/fuel lines route then you'll likely need some form of fuel heater too as the cooking oil is, I understand, a lot less viscous when cold and can block up the injectors. A couple of the people I know that are doing this get their oil from the local chip shop (for free) and filter it before adding to their diesel tanks. Result? A car that smells like a chip shop :-) SignatureRegards Steve G > Adding cooking oil to diesel is a not uncommon event in the Land Rover world here in the UK. Most people simply add anything upto > 20% cooking oil to a tank full of normal diesel and aside from an odd smell from the exhaust you don't notice the difference. If [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > A couple of the people I know that are doing this get their oil from the local chip shop (for free) and filter it before adding to > their diesel tanks. Result? A car that smells like a chip shop :-) I ran my car on straight new canola oil, didn't notice any power loss. Though engine should have good compression for best results. cp > http://r75.sytes.net/ > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > North Americans be quiet about your prices... Besides, the prices over here are going down. Jim > DAS > > For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling > --- My last trip was $2.71/gal for premium. I think the local retailers were holding the line on prices given the problems with Katrina recovery. Meanwhile, in Atlanta and untouched, the prices quickly spiked to over $6.00 (still nothing compared to European prices). Go figure. R / John > http://r75.sytes.net/ > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling > --- Just keep in my the most of what you are paying is taxes. You may feel that that's worth it, but it is still NOT the price of the gas that is your biggest bite at the pump. Last I heard, the wholesale price of the gasoline itself is around $2 a gallon. - GRL > http://r75.sytes.net/ > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling > --- Ok, well that's just ignorant. Federal gas tax is 18.4 cents per gallon. State tax ranges from 8 (Alaska) to 32.1 (Wisconson) cents per gallon. > Ok, well that's just ignorant. Federal gas tax is 18.4 cents per > gallon. State tax ranges from 8 (Alaska) to 32.1 (Wisconson) cents per > gallon. Title of the thread involves UK, not US. Tom ...and the OP suggested that North Americans need not comment, implying that, however high their prices are, they are still low... :-)) But hey, this is free-speech-usenet... DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > Title of the thread involves UK, not US. > > Tom Sorry, I missed it. I stand corrected. Of course the reason for the high prices in most of the world is taxes. Of course it is just a revenue-raising exercise for governments. But they also encourage more fuel-efficient engines and conservation. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- > Just keep in my the most of what you are paying is taxes. You may feel > that that's worth it, but it is still NOT the price of the gas that is [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling >> --- >Of course the reason for the high prices in most of the world is taxes. Of >course it is just a revenue-raising exercise for governments. But they also >encourage more fuel-efficient engines and conservation. > >DAS So why does diesel cost more than unleaded? Over here in the UK I think I read that over 70% of the pump price is tax. I wouldn't mind so much if this money went to improving the roads, and public transport so I could have a choice and not drive all the time, but public transport is a joke, and it's still quicker and cheaper for me to drive my car from London to Birmingham than it is to take the train, and that's just a car with one person in it. With passengers it becomes a complete no brainer. D0d6y. > So why does diesel cost more than unleaded? Shortage of refinery capacity. Diesel is a lot more popular for private cars now than it was 10-15 years ago. SignatureWho needs a life when you've got Unix? :-) Email: john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk, John G.Burns B.Eng, Bonny Scotland Web : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage! Need Sun or HP Unix kit? http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html >> So why does diesel cost more than unleaded? > > Shortage of refinery capacity. Diesel is a lot more popular for private > cars now than it was 10-15 years ago. In the US, it's also related to capacity. Refineries can only process so much crude. Diesel and gas (petrol) are both relatively similar fractions, and production of one reduces the other. The US has high gas demand during the summer, and diesel - as heating oil - during the winter, so they trade it off, which raises diesel prices during the summer, gas during the winter. FloydR In Britain and other countries the tax levied on diesel is/was different to petrol. Don't know how it is in the UK now, but I would not be surprised if the 'natural' price of diesel were higher because of where it comes out in the refinery fraction and volumes relative to petrol, especially now that the consumption has risen (as John Burns points out). Ideally the demand pattern should match the production pattern, but it doesn't. As regards UK taxes I chose my words carefully, saying it is just a revenue raiser. The link between fuel taxes and road building was abolished, I think in the fifties. There never was a link with public transport and, though quite a few people would feel as you do about paying for public transport, I can't see any government hypothecating any taxes in such a way. The other day I heard on BBC R4 that at 97 p/l there are 47 p tax, so now it is much less than 70%. I think this figure was valid at lower pump prices, as the fixed element ('fuel duty') has not actually risen in recent years. I wonder if you saw the Top Gear edition in which they reported on new research showing that the energy cost per head in a car was lower than in a train, taking into account typical occupancy rates. I don't know anything about the background, but it would not surprise me if it were true. People never talk about the power stations and their pollution when talking about trains. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] >>DAS > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > D0d6y. > The other day I heard on BBC R4 that at 97 p/l there are 47 p tax, so now it > is much less than 70%. I think this figure was valid at lower pump prices, > as the fixed element ('fuel duty') has not actually risen in recent years. I thought it was a %age? And don't forget to take 17.5% VAT into account. And remember that for every pound you earn the government deducts tax and national insurance. So from every pound in your salaray you deduct, tax, NI, VAT, fuel tax and you'll see that they make a fortune out of us. SignatureWho needs a life when you've got Unix? :-) Email: john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk, John G.Burns B.Eng, Bonny Scotland Web : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage! Need Sun or HP Unix kit? http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html > > The other day I heard on BBC R4 that at 97 p/l there are 47 p tax, so now it > > is much less than 70%. I think this figure was valid at lower pump prices, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Web : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage! > Need Sun or HP Unix kit? http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html #!/bin/bash # Civilization: # 1) Most want it. # 2) Most do not want to pay for it. . Of course the worst case is when you pay for civilization and still do not get it - then it is time to move. . > Of course the worst case is > when you pay for civilization > and still do not get it - > then it is time to move. Or time to ask for change :-) Anyway, methinks this is getting a tad off topic. SignatureWho needs a life when you've got Unix? :-) Email: john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk, John G.Burns B.Eng, Bonny Scotland Web : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage! Need Sun or HP Unix kit? http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html > # Civilization: > > # 1) Most want it. I'm quite happy to have less of it! In Scotland something like 1 in 4 people work for the government. Does strike anyone as a tad high? > # 2) Most do not want to pay for it. SignatureWho needs a life when you've got Unix? :-) Email: john@unixnerd.demon.co.uk, John G.Burns B.Eng, Bonny Scotland Web : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage! Need Sun or HP Unix kit? http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html > I'm quite happy to have less of it! In Scotland something like 1 in 4 > people work for the government. Does strike anyone as a tad high? It depends on what services they provide. You could reduce that amount by contracting out to the private side. But this has been shown to have mixed blessings. ;-) Take something relatively simple like refuse collection which we all need. Your council might run this or pay someone else to. It would be impractical to arrange it for yourself. If the council run scheme is poor and or inefficient, it's down to bad management. If a private one is better, it has better management. But then will incur extra costs in the form of profit to the owners. Signature*He's not dead - he's electroencephalographically challenged Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. > > > The other day I heard on BBC R4 that at 97 p/l there are 47 p tax, > > > so now it is much less than 70%. I think this figure was valid at [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > you deduct, tax, NI, VAT, fuel tax and you'll see that they make a > > fortune out of us. > #!/bin/bash > # Civilization: > # 1) Most want it. > # 2) Most do not want to pay for it. 'Tis true. Even the most anti-taxation right winger wants taxes spent on useless wars and locking inadequates away for ever in jail. In the UK, things like the health service which is perhaps the major tax consumer seems to be the sacred cow. Signature*Why is it considered necessary to screw down the lid of a coffin? Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> > > The other day I heard on BBC R4 that at 97 p/l there are 47 p tax, >> > > so now it is much less than 70%. I think this figure was valid at [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >In the UK, things like the health service which is perhaps the major tax >consumer seems to be the sacred cow. This would be the health service that has more managers and pen pushers than it has doctors and nurses? If the UK were a PC god game this would be the point to say "hang on, this isn't going well", and then reload from the game you saved in the 80s. Dodgy. > >In the UK, things like the health service which is perhaps the major tax > >consumer seems to be the sacred cow. > This would be the health service that has more managers and pen > pushers than it has doctors and nurses? And you think a private scheme with all those telesales and account chasers etc would be any better? 'Cause it wouldn't - the only difference would be on paper. Until you needed serious or long term care where they just wouldn't want to know. Signature*Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >>The other day I heard on BBC R4 that at 97 p/l there are 47 p tax, so now it >>is much less than 70%. I think this figure was valid at lower pump prices, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > you deduct, tax, NI, VAT, fuel tax and you'll see that they make a > fortune out of us. After deducting all those taxes, is there any money left to take home? I enjoyed your home page very much. Followed some links and had a few laughs. It was a delightful experience. Thanks John. IIRC there are two elements, the larger one being a fixed sum per unit volume. The other one is VAT, a variable (even if a fixed percentage). http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4653175.stm http://www.rha.net/public/adviceandinfo/ved2001.shtml In fact the second link suggests I was wrong in that fuel duty only is 47 pence per litre. I thought it included the VAT element, so total tax is 47.1 p (to be precise) plus 17.5% of the total price. At GBP 1 per litre total tax is about 15 p VAT plus 47 p duty = 62 p so a lot closer to what Dodgy thought. The planned increase in the duty has been postponed. When I filled up yesterday it was 'only' 97 p at my nearest central London Shell station. :-( DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > I thought it was a %age? And don't forget to take 17.5% VAT into > account. And remember that for every pound you earn the government > deducts tax and national insurance. So from every pound in your salaray > you deduct, tax, NI, VAT, fuel tax and you'll see that they make a > fortune out of us. I wonder if dropping the fuel tax is a good idea. Lower prices means more demand. More demand and a limited supply means higher prices anyway. But then I cannot relate to $7.50 USD gallons living in the USA as I do. . > As regards UK taxes I chose my words carefully, saying it is just a > revenue raiser. The link between fuel taxes and road building was > abolished, I think in the fifties. There never was one. The annual car tax disc was once known as the RFL - road fund licence. Fuel tax just goes into general taxation. Dunno what the fuss is. Would you expect tobacco taxation to be used only for the benefit of smokers? Alcohol taxation solely for the benefit of drinkers? Signature*Upon the advice of my attorney, my shirt bears no message at this time Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> As regards UK taxes I chose my words carefully, saying it is just a >> revenue raiser. The link between fuel taxes and road building was [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >for the benefit of smokers? Alcohol taxation solely for the benefit of >drinkers? Well the Americans seem to manage to spend fuel tax on travel related things... Even the Germans with their famously expensive social security bill manage to avoid stealing too much of it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/business_petrol_pricing/html/3.stm Dodgy. > >There never was one. The annual car tax disc was once known as the RFL > >- road fund licence. Fuel tax just goes into general taxation. > > > >Dunno what the fuss is. Would you expect tobacco taxation to be used > >only for the benefit of smokers? Alcohol taxation solely for the > >benefit of drinkers? > Well the Americans seem to manage to spend fuel tax on travel related > things... Even the Germans with their famously expensive social > security bill manage to avoid stealing too much of it. It's rule one of taxation in a modern society that everyone wants the benefits but that others pay for it. When you're young, you may want to drive around just for fun in a flash car while living in a bedsit, so things like paying for the education of kids and looking after old people are well down the list. Move on a few years after you're married and housing and education become priorities. Move on a few more years and pensions and health care become more the issue. I'm not saying the UK has got the balance between state provided services and taxation right for everyone, but then neither has any other country - as it depends on the individual. Signature*The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind * Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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