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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / October 2005Smart car safe?
The Smart car has a rear engine which minimizes any substantial crumple zone in a front-end collision. In effect, the driver and passengers are the crumple zone and if hit hard, you will not likely survive. Gas mileage may be great, but you compromise a lot. BTW the back won't hold much more than two grocery bags - hardly enough for the family. It is supposed to be good on snow, but how about IN snow, like 4-8 inches of it? It also appears unstable if you corner it too fast. There are plenty of better small cars out there and at much better prices. Check out Chevrolet Aveo, Pontiac Pursuit, Saturn Ion Ford Focus etc. > The Smart car has a rear engine which minimizes any substantial > crumple zone in a front-end collision. In effect, the driver and > passengers are the crumple zone and if hit hard, you will not likely > survive. What a load of rubbish. An engine is NOT a crumple zone, it's in fact beneficial not to have an engine in front (engine isn't pushed into cabin in front impact) and better in terms of pedestrian safety. Smart is very safe in front impacts. > Gas mileage may be great, but you compromise a lot. BTW the back > won't hold much more than two grocery bags - hardly enough for the > family. Has the fact it only seats two escaped your attention? > It is supposed to be good on snow, but how about IN snow, > like 4-8 inches of it? It also appears unstable if you corner it too > fast. It is designed to understeer - all cars are unstable if you corner too fast. > There are plenty of better small cars out there and at much better > prices. Check out Chevrolet Aveo, Pontiac Pursuit, Saturn Ion Ford > Focus etc. Chevy / Pontiac / Saturn? Ahhh yes, quality american cars.  SignatureAll of my hate cannot be FOUND I will not be drowned by your thoughtless scheming so you can try to tear me down Beat me to the ground I will see you screaming I would love to see some test data on crash worthiness of the Smart Car. > I would love to see some test data on crash worthiness of the Smart > Car. http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=1&id2=69 cf. http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=2&id2=37 http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=3&id2=89 http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=4&id2=130 SignatureAll of my hate cannot be FOUND I will not be drowned by your thoughtless scheming so you can try to tear me down Beat me to the ground I will see you screaming >>I would love to see some test data on crash worthiness of the Smart >>Car. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=3&id2=89 > http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=4&id2=130 AFAIK these tests are done against solid stationary objects. In real life there's a big risk of smashing into other cars. When smashing into other cars the relative weight becomes very important. In a head on collision the smaller car will absorb most of the crash energy. Unfortunately the Smart will usually be the lighter car in a crash. Pitting a 1650 kg E-class against a 750 kg Smart I think I'd put all my money on the E-class. Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html > >>I would love to see some test data on crash worthiness of the Smart > >>Car. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... > http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html Safety ratings are only relevant to vehicles of the same weight category. For instance, a vehicle that weighs 3200 lbs is compared with a vehicle in that class and then rated. I am not sure what other vehicle would be in the same category as the Smart car, but comparatively it may come out on top. Reality is that there are Ford F150, Escalades and Silverados out there. How can ANYONE say that these vehicles are safe. I am sure any kind of side impact will result in death. > >>I would love to see some test data on crash worthiness of the Smart > >>Car. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... > http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html Safety ratings are only relevant to vehicles of the same weight category. For instance, a vehicle that weighs 3200 lbs is compared with a vehicle in that class and then rated. I am not sure what other vehicle would be in the same category as the Smart car, but comparatively it may come out on top. Reality is that there are Ford F150, Escalades and Silverados out there. How can ANYONE say that these vehicles are safe. I am sure any kind of side impact will result in death. > Safety ratings are only relevant to vehicles of the same weight > category. For instance, a vehicle that weighs 3200 lbs is compared [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > these vehicles are safe. I am sure any kind of side impact will > result in death. Weight is part of the issue - strength and the ability to absorb energy from the impact is more important. I used to own a Volvo S40, 1400kg of car. I got hit, drivers side on, 40mph by a 7.5 tonne truck. I walked away. It's been proven in many UK tests that stiff, heavy cars with ladder chassis such as the shogun and the discovery (we don't get F150s, Escalades and Silverados over here) are more likely to cause occupant injury as they transmit the impact to the occupants instead of dissipating the energy throughout the car. SignatureAll of my hate cannot be FOUND I will not be drowned by your thoughtless scheming so you can try to tear me down Beat me to the ground I will see you screaming So you'd never ride a motorcycle? cp >>>I would love to see some test data on crash worthiness of the Smart >>>Car. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Ximinez > So you'd never ride a motorcycle? I have my license and I used to own one a long time ago. I still rent one occasionally when on holiday. I do think that motorbikes are a lot riskier than cars. A small mistake could end up hurting you a lot more than it would driving a car. A colleague of mine drove into the back of a car recently and was hurt moderately. I think he would've walked away easily if he had been in a car. I wouldn't want to do my daily commute on a bike. Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html I agree. >> So you'd never ride a motorcycle? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Ximinez Differn' stroke for differn' folks. It's all relative.You could get squashed by a bus while driving a SUV or you could get squashed by a Smart car while riding a motorbike. Personally, I'd like to ride a motorcycle but it's a bit too far down the roadkill chain, but a Smart is high enough. Seems like you just don't like Smart cars. cp > The Smart car has a rear engine which minimizes any substantial crumple > zone in a front-end collision. In effect, the driver and passengers [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > prices. Check out Chevrolet Aveo, Pontiac Pursuit, Saturn Ion Ford > Focus etc. Heh, 4-stroke as opposed to 2-stroke? Let's put it this way, the Smart was designed for a different ecosystem. Ever try piloting even a C-class down one of Europe's many small old-city roads? But here's a "narrower" solution to the problem of getting from A to B. http://www-commuter-cars.com 0-60 in 4s, 150mph top speed, 60"H x 39"W x 8'5"D, seats two. Drawback, it's electric, so weighs 3,057lbs. Was tempted. Cheers, WS > Differn' stroke for differn' folks. It's all relative.You could get squashed by a bus while driving a SUV or you could get squashed > by a Smart car while riding a motorbike. Personally, I'd like to ride a motorcycle but it's a bit too far down the roadkill chain, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>prices. Check out Chevrolet Aveo, Pontiac Pursuit, Saturn Ion Ford >>Focus etc. > Heh, 4-stroke as opposed to 2-stroke? What's that got to do anything? If you're implying the Smart has 2 stroke engine it's got a diesel. > Let's put it this way, the Smart was designed for a different ecosystem. Ever try piloting even a C-class down one of Europe's > many small old-city roads? Yeh, I've driven C-class in Europe, at over 150mph. And what's up with the "Europe's many small old-city roads"? Where and how's that an issue? Have you ever even been to Europe? cp >>Heh, 4-stroke as opposed to 2-stroke? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Yeh, I've driven C-class in Europe, at over 150mph. And what's up with the "Europe's many small old-city roads"? Where and how's > that an issue? Have you ever even been to Europe? There are some old-cities where this can become an issue. In small villages on hilltops in the S of France things can get really tight. In most cities and villages this is not an issue at all, although it can be advantages to have a Smart if you have limited parking space (which *is* an issue in many places). You might just be able to squeeze one more car in it... Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html > There are some old-cities where this can become an issue. In small villages on hilltops in the S of France things can get really > tight. In most cities and villages this is not an issue at all, although it can be advantages to have a Smart if you have limited > parking space (which *is* an issue in many places). You might just be able to squeeze one more car in it... Yes, but it's not like the entire continent consists of tiny goat tracked villages, like some Canadians I know are wont to think. cp Of course, if I had followed the given link earlier I would have known the origin of your moniker/signature & quote therein. However, last night we started watching one of two "Best of Monty Python" tapes the wife picked up cheaply the other day and there it was, the Spanish Inquisition sketch. Although I had seen many of the episodes first time round and many of them later, I did not remember this one... Anyway, Trouble at th' mill (or trouble at mill as in script) is hard to reproduce in writing... I am hoping the parrot sketch is in there, somewhere. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > Of course, if I had followed the given link earlier I would have known the > origin of your moniker/signature & quote therein. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Anyway, Trouble at th' mill (or trouble at mill as in script) is hard to > reproduce in writing... It's one of my faves :) I sometimes try to deliberately insert miscounts in my posts in the hope that someone will notice. The two problems with old w123 diesels is that they are slow, uneconomical and rust a lot. That kind of thing. Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html >> Heh, 4-stroke as opposed to 2-stroke? > > What's that got to do anything? If you're implying the Smart has 2 > stroke engine it's got a diesel. No, just forgot the smiley. The OP was asking why you didn't like bikes, and many *do* come in 2-stroke. >> Let's put it this way, the Smart was designed for a different >> ecosystem. Ever try piloting even a C-class down one of Europe's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > with the "Europe's many small old-city roads"? Where and how's that > an issue? Have you ever even been to Europe? Yes. And IMO, a Smart looks and feels "right" downtown in a city like Rome, but I probably won't drive it regularly out on the Autobahn. Here, in Singapore, they brought in some Smarts for a trial, but the tax structure and the premium pricing meant that it was a failure. The Asian "status" mentality might have had something to do with it too. The per-capita population of Mercs in Singapore is one of the highest in the world, IIRC, and because of urban renewal, there is no problem with roadspace, you just have to pay more for it. In the US, with them SUVs, I'll stick with my bigger car, thanks. Regards, WS Signaturechange to leews to mail. > No, just forgot the smiley. The OP was asking why you didn't like bikes, > and many *do* come in 2-stroke. Yeh, that's what I was thinking you were implying. Actually, I wouldn't mind a bike, there's a lot of beautiful riding to be done in BC. I definitely would not commute, people here are blind to bikes. > Yes. And IMO, a Smart looks and feels "right" downtown in a city like Rome, but I probably won't drive it regularly out on the > Autobahn. Yeh, it is a city car. > Here, in Singapore, they brought in some Smarts for a trial, but the tax structure and the premium pricing meant that it was a > failure. The Asian "status" mentality might have had something to do with it too. That's too bad, a car of this size would do them good. > The per-capita population of Mercs in Singapore is one of the highest in the world, IIRC, and because of urban renewal, there is > no problem with roadspace, you just have to pay more for it. > > In the US, with them SUVs, I'll stick with my bigger car, thanks. For myself, I wouldn't mind a Smart, as a commuter car, but the price is not worth it at all. Might as well get an Toyota Echo for the daily work beat. cp If I had to move my family using a Smart car I would need roughly three of them. No fuel savings there... The car is an urban runabout, maybe car number 2 or 3 in a family. Never meant to be anything else. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- > If I had to move my family using a Smart car I would need roughly three > of them. No fuel savings there... > The car is an urban runabout, maybe car number 2 or 3 in a family. Never > meant to be anything else. fourth picture on here is me cruising gently in a Smart. http://www.wellcheap.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.ShowItem&g2_itemId=493 SignatureAll of my hate cannot be FOUND I will not be drowned by your thoughtless scheming so you can try to tear me down Beat me to the ground I will see you screaming > If I had to move my family using a Smart car I would need roughly three > of them. No fuel savings there... Nobody buys a Smart car to move their family. The second seat is for the brief case or person going out to lunch with you cp "cp" <asdf@asdf.com> haute in die Tasten: >> If I had to move my family using a Smart car I would need >> roughly three of them. No fuel savings there... > > Nobody buys a Smart car to move their family. The second seat is > for the brief case or person going out to lunch with you For those who have more to move, smart makes the four door four seat smart forfour. IMHO two good seats serve me better than two tiny seats and one rear seat where nobody can sit because I have put back my seat as far as possible. Frank Signatureplease replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen - Made in Trance > IMHO two good seats serve me better than two tiny seats and one rear > seat where nobody can sit because I have put back my seat as far as > possible. Which is where the LWB W168 A class and the 5 door new shape ones come into play - small car with clever interior design giving lots of space for passengers. SignatureAll of my hate cannot be FOUND I will not be drowned by your thoughtless scheming so you can try to tear me down Beat me to the ground I will see you screaming > For those who have more to move, smart makes the four door four seat > smart forfour. > > IMHO two good seats serve me better than two tiny seats and one rear > seat where nobody can sit because I have put back my seat as far as > possible. In Canada we only have the fortwo, quite a bit of them too. Personally, if I had the choice between a forfour and a Toyota Echo/Yaris/Rits hatchback I'd take the Toyota, bigger and cheaper. cp > In Canada we only have the fortwo, quite a bit > of them too. Personally, if I had the choice > between a forfour and a Toyota Echo/Yaris/Rits > hatchback I'd take the Toyota, bigger and cheaper. THE point for the Smart fortwo is it's shortness: 2500 mm, the very best on the whole car market in terms of parking space (leaving _light_ cars as French Ligier etc. pp. out here). Of course anything else is not as good as with other modern vehicles of the same price class - the fortwo is pricey and take in mind DaimlerChrysler loses(!) money with every one sold... - but given its shortness it competes well. Juergen > In Canada we only have the fortwo, quite a bit > of them too. Personally, if I had the choice > between a forfour and a Toyota Echo/Yaris/Rits > hatchback I'd take the Toyota, bigger and cheaper. THE point for the Smart fortwo is it's shortness: 2500 mm, the very best on the whole car market in terms of parking space (leaving _light_ cars such as the French Ligiers etc. pp. out here). Of course anything else is not as good as with other modern vehicles of the same price class: No rear doors, no rear seats, short wheelbase, narrow wheel track, lack of crumple zones etc. - but given its shortness it competes well (IMHO). Juergen >> In Canada we only have the fortwo, quite a bit >> of them too. Personally, if I had the choice [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > narrow wheel track, lack of crumple zones etc. - > but given its shortness it competes well (IMHO). Oh I understand. I was just saying that the forfour is pointless to buy. Anyways, how's Hamburg? Ah, der bier is very good there :-) cp > Oh I understand. I was just saying that the > forfour is pointless to buy. Personally I wonder why Smart sells so few forfours - not many to be seen on the streets here in Germany (compared to other cars in that price segment). Juergen P.S.: Beer? What's beer? I only drink tea... ;-))) "Juergen ." <jaguare@bigfoot.com> haute in die Tasten: > Personally I wonder why Smart sells so few > forfours - not many to be seen on the > streets here in Germany (compared to other > cars in that price segment). I don't. The Smart forfour is based on the Mitsubishi Colt platform and it is a very usual microcar, which you can buy from many different brands. I have testdriven both smart fortwo and forfour. The smart fortwo really _is_ completely different to almost any other car on the market, the forfour only tries to build up the impression of being different. If you take this into consideration, the forfour does not offer any unique advantages before cars like the Toyota Yaris, Citroen C3, Skoda Fabia and Ford Fiesta. But these are substantially cheaper. (Why did I try the forfour? Because smart germany launched a PR camapign where they offered 25 euros to everyone who volunteered to try a smart for half an hour;-)) Frank Signatureplease replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen - Made in Trance > I don't. The Smart forfour is based on the Mitsubishi Colt platform > and it is a very usual microcar, which you can buy from many > different brands. My point exactly. cp > Personally I wonder why Smart sells so few > forfours - not many to be seen on the > streets here in Germany (compared to other > cars in that price segment). It's too big for its size :-) might as well get something else > P.S.: Beer? What's beer? I only drink tea... ;-))) :-) Ja, I trink too much tea myself cp > THE point for the Smart fortwo is it's shortness: > 2500 mm, the very best on the whole car market in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > narrow wheel track, lack of crumple zones etc. - > but given its shortness it competes well (IMHO). Why would a 2 seat car need rear doors? SignatureJust remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving / And revolving at 900 miles an hour / That's orbiting at 19 miles a second, so it's reckoned, / A sun that is the source of all our power. / The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see, / Are moving at a million miles a day / In an outer spiral arm, at 40,000 miles an hour, / Of the galaxy we call the Milky Way. > > THE point for the Smart fortwo is it's shortness: > > 2500 mm, the very best on the whole car market in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > but given its shortness it competes well (IMHO). > Why would a 2 seat car need rear doors? Of course a 2 seater doesn't need rear doors (although the BMW 1-series has... ;-) ), but other cars in the very same price segment as the Smart fortwo do have things the fortwo does not have, e.g. rear seats or rear doors (which some of the four-door cars from the Smart fortwo price segment do offer) so these cars do offer more than the fortwo in the same price segment. price-segment Juergen ;-) >> For those who have more to move, smart makes the four door four seat >> smart forfour. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > if I had the choice between a forfour and a Toyota Echo/Yaris/Rits > hatchback I'd take the Toyota, bigger and cheaper. And better. > > In Canada we only have the fortwo, quite a bit of them too. Personally, > > if I had the choice between a forfour and a Toyota Echo/Yaris/Rits > > hatchback I'd take the Toyota, bigger and cheaper. > And better. Except one point which is THE reason for many to buy the fortwo: It's shortness (2500 mm). If you live in areas with _very_ limited parking space the fortwo beats them all (in that respect). Juergen Martin J was comparing the Fourfour with Toyota et al. And that is not quite so short. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > Except one point which is THE reason for many > to buy the fortwo: It's shortness (2500 mm). [...] > Yeh, that's what I was thinking you were implying. Actually, I > wouldn't mind a bike, there's a lot of beautiful riding to be done in > BC. I definitely would not commute, people here are blind to bikes. Hey, you're in BC! Nice. The weather really doesn't lend itself to bikes when it's wet, though. Which leads me that think that "tight" is relative. I remember way back, driving up from the US to visit my sister in Vancouver in an old Gran Torino. After the US, the roads suddenly felt very narrow. I'm not sure that was just the perception on my part, but I promptly borrowed her hyundai to explore places like Chinatown, and felt much more at ease after that. ws Signaturechange to leews to mail > Hey, you're in BC! Nice. The weather really doesn't lend itself to bikes when it's wet, though. Tell me about, though today it was quite warm, got some work done in my friend's benz restoring shop. > Which leads me that think that "tight" is relative. I remember way back, driving up from the US to visit my sister in Vancouver in > an old Gran Torino. After the US, the roads suddenly felt very narrow. I'm not sure that was just the perception on my part, but I > promptly borrowed her hyundai to explore places like Chinatown, and felt much more at ease after that. hmmmm, I haven't noticed and difference in width, though I have noticed that in some US cities, especially in the north, an offroad vehicle would be more fitting. cp |
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