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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / January 2006Old tyres :(
My GF and I bought ourselves two old but good MB's last year (financially very attractive company cars due to Dutch tax rules). Her's is an 88 w201, mine's a 87 w124 diesel, both have around 50,000 miles on them. Their 80+ yo owners mostly kept them locked in the garage. They're in matching willow green with pine cloth interiors ;) I began noticing a bit of a wobble at lower speeds recently, so I mentioned that to my mechanic when I brought it in for its service. It turned out that 1 of the rear tyres had developed a bulge (prelude to a blowout). The tyres on that car, although they had lots of tread, apparently were 12 years old. I googled around a bit and found that replacement by 6 years is advised. I replaced all my tyres today and I just checked my GF's car: Two 1996, one 2001 and one 1988 (!) tyre. The spare wheel was also a 2001. It seems I'll have to replace hers as well since this seems pretty dangerous to me now. I wonder if there are other points that should be checked extra on old cars with very low mileage that spent most of their lives in the garage. Ximinez  SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html Yes. Other places to look are the accessory belts eg: water pump, alternator and such, and the radiator hoses. My mother inherited an '80 SD in 1991 (eleven years old) that had been immaculately maintained, but all the rubber had dry rotted. We had a tire decompose on the highway and then noticed all of the other tires were dry rotted. We replaced them but about a month later the upper radiator hose split on the highway so definitely give both cars the once over for rubber decomposition. Also check and make sure that the oil looks clean. If they did not keep up on their oil changes there could be sludge in the sump. Good idea changing the tires. It is very dangerous running old tires not just from dry rot risk of blowout, but they also harden as they get older and can lose traction. Best of luck and congrats on the new cars!!! :) > Yes. Other places to look are the accessory belts eg: water pump, > alternator and such, and the radiator hoses. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > not just from dry rot risk of blowout, but they also harden as they get > older and can lose traction. I already noticed that driving with the new tires. They seem to have much more grip. With the old ones the ABS seemed to kick in very early compared to my previous car. Tires, of course, I should've thought of that earlier... Thanks for the tips. I suppose the rotting away of the rubber must be variable, perhaps by climate or storage. Our cars have been garage-kept (discoloring of the fabric is the give away, I think) so perhaps that's the reason why the hoses are still intact, but I'll have them checked out. My GF's car seems to warm up very slowly, so I was thinking that perhaps the thermostat could be stuck. Is that another possible low-milage/old age problem? Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html A stuck thermoststat could definitely be the problem. My GF's (now wife) 560SL had very similar problems to you: 12 year old hardened tires, bad radiator hoses, belts, and a stuck thermostat. I don't know why non-use of the car would stick the thermostat or maybe it is because the car is used so little that no one notices that the thermostat is stuck, but it wouldn't heat over 50 centigrade. Best of luck and enjoy those new cars! >My GF's car seems to warm up very slowly, so I was thinking that perhaps >the thermostat could be stuck. Is that another possible low-milage/old >age problem? No, it's a problem with a 10 year old thermostat! You could put that thermostat in a new car and it would heat for sh.t too. Order a couple. And test them. There are some parts that always work out of the box. Other parts like glow plugs and thermostats you test first, it is too much hassle to go through to find you installed a bad off the shelf new part which can and does happen. So your choice is to possibly endure the trouble or expense of installing thermostat twice (hah! btdt) or test it and do it once. Then at the vest least you'll know it's good and not the source of any other symptoms that may remain. Flush the rad with MBs (cheap) citric acid flush and use new coolant if this hasn't been done yet. Use only MB coolant; $2 more per gallon or so. You can probably sell the empty star bearng containers on ebay ha ha. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net >> My GF's car seems to warm up very slowly, so I was thinking that perhaps >> the thermostat could be stuck. Is that another possible low-milage/old [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > you test first, it is too much hassle to go through to find you > installed a bad off the shelf new part which can and does happen. OK, how do I test it? Just put it in a pan of water with a thermometer and heat it until it opens? What temperature should it open? (in c if possible ;) > So your choice is to possibly endure the trouble or expense of > installing thermostat twice (hah! btdt) or test it and do it once. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Use only MB coolant; $2 more per gallon or so. You can probably sell > the empty star bearng containers on ebay ha ha. I'm not much of a diy guy, but I'll make sure to ask my mechanic to replace all the oil and fluids next time. Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html >> Order a couple. And test them. There are some parts that always >> work out of the box. Other parts like glow plugs and thermostats [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >and heat it until it opens? What temperature should it open? (in c if >possible ;) It'll say on the thermostat. 86 usually. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net You are right about tire age... it is best to have new tires. the 2001 tires are acceptable for use... but you won't have matching tires for all 4. I think that he can make a pair of 2001s for the rear or front wheels, with the one in the trunk, then he only needs to buy two new tires assuming that the treads are in similar condition. I would try that if I were him. > I think that he can make a pair of 2001s for the rear or front wheels, > with the one in the trunk, then he only needs to buy two new tires > assuming that the treads are in similar condition. I would try that if > I were him. I think I'm going to use the 2001's as spare wheels for both cars (just have to check and see if they have the same tire size). Having four new tires on both cars gives me a nice and fuzzy safe feeling and I wouldn't want the GF to think I value her life less ;) They're forecasting black ice today, so I really should be getting winter tires as well... Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html I know this is heresy, but I've got 15+ year old snow tires on my 300E and they appear to work just great.... tried them out earlier in the fall at high speeds for a couple of hrs just to make sure there was no problem. Yes I did inspect them for cracks - even microcracks - nada. cheers, guenter >> I think that he can make a pair of 2001s for the rear or front wheels, >> with the one in the trunk, then he only needs to buy two new tires [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Ximinez > I know this is heresy, but I've got 15+ year old snow tires on my 300E and > they appear to work just great.... tried them out earlier in the fall at high > speeds for a couple of hrs just to make sure there was no problem. Yes I did > inspect them for cracks - even microcracks - nada. > > cheers, guenter I believe you, but after seeing my 12 yo tire (that looked like new) about to burst I'm taking no more chances. The spare wheel on the w124 was made in '87. Looked absolutely new, with the little rubber spikes (term?) still on. I replaced it anyway. Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html important is how the tires were stored. If in the dark without exposure to any UV the chances are that 10 year old tires will be just fine. cheers >> I know this is heresy, but I've got 15+ year old snow tires on my 300E and >> they appear to work just great.... tried them out earlier in the fall at high [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Ximinez > important is how the tires were stored. If in the dark without exposure to > any UV the chances are that 10 year old tires will be just fine. That could make the difference perhaps. These were probably stored under the car parked in a garage. So it would've been dark, but the tires would have been under pressure for 12 years. Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html Get Nokian tires... You can get their all season tire series... WR... Nokian has the only all season tire with extreme mud and snow rating... That is because they designed the tire from a snow tire into an all season tire. I would recommend this to anyone who don't want to have a set of snow tires. > Get Nokian tires... You can get their all season tire series... WR... > > Nokian has the only all season tire with extreme mud and snow rating... That > is because they designed the tire from a snow tire into an all season tire. > > I would recommend this to anyone who don't want to have a set of snow tires. Sounds interesting. Too late for me, I already got new Michelins, but it might be a good option for my GF's car. Her car doesn't have ABS, so the good winter performance could be a bit of compensation. Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html If you want your tires to be better in the snow, rain and to be quieter, you can have them "siped". I had this done to my new tires from Discount Tire company and the result is amazing. It does not affect treadlife or the warranty, but the traction change in the snow is amaazing. Just 5 bucks a tire. Thom '89 300E 250,800 miles No... do not get it siped... it is not just the matter of slicing up your tires. Slicing up the tires like Michelin and other copycats are just plain hype. You have to understand... siping is only one part of equation... the tread design for lateral grip in this extreme condition is the key point... Sure, you can slice up your tires and get good forward grip... but you know what? That is all you get. Do you remember how when you slam on brake in icy condition and the car goes sideway? That is where lateral grip comes in. Yes, traction controls help.. but they can only control as much as they could considering what kind of "shoe" they are wearing... All season tires are like sneakers... good for almost everything... terrible in snow right? Snow boot are great in snow? Yep... Why don't you try an experiment... get your old dress shoes with leather sole... slice it up on bottom straightward from side to side... and go walk on some ice or smow... you can move forward better than before... but you will find yourself with no side to side control... Now slice diagonally in diamond shape and you will find much better overall grip... but only problem is the tread is not deep enough for all condition. Your experience is different from mine, When I got my new tires, I paid for the siping. It showed the next day, and I was not impressed with the grip. I check the tires, and they had forgotten to sipe them. I took the car back, and they corrected the problem. As a test I went to the local middle school and tried some full throttle take-offs, tried some donuts, and slamming on the breaks from 30 mph. The change was significant. The car ALWAYS caught itself from sliding sideways (it would step out only about 1/2 to 1 ft.). I am not saying they as good as the Nokians, but it can save you from having to change tires every season to get improved grip, or have an extra set of wheels/tires sitting when not in use. Correction, that would be "SNOWED the next day", not showed. Do you know if siping can be done on older tires? I have a set of pretty worn summer only Bridgestones that have a little tread left. I was hoping that I could sipe them to get back some wet weather traction for one more summer. There is 5/64 of tread left so they aren't totally gone, but I don't know. Any ideas? Too little tread left. I would expect when My tires get that low on tread that the siping would no longer exist. Yes, do cosider it You can even go to their website... Nokiantyres.com or in usa... nokiantires.com > Yes, do cosider it You can even go to their website... Nokiantyres.com or > in usa... nokiantires.com I did, I find the (only) Dutch dealer and sent them an e-mail. Their website lists the WR model but there's no indication that they're 'all season'. Are all WR's 'all season' or is that a subset of the WR range? Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html I thought you were in Spain... I thought you were in Spain... http://www.ruedasyneumaticos.com/ WR is the all season tires... the Europe website is a bit confusion...but once you select your tire sizes... you will see all their tires. The US website is much simpler and direct info. nokiantires.com > I thought you were in Spain... Ah, yes, some people think that. I wonder why ;) > http://www.ruedasyneumaticos.com/ > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The US website is much simpler and direct info. > nokiantires.com I looked at it and called the Dutch distributor today, apparently they don't do e-mail. They sent me on to a dealer who was willing to order them for me for 95 EUR a piece (includes tax & fitting). They have to come all the way from Finland, but I guess we can wait a few weeks. Thanks for the tip! Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html Personally . . . I wasn't expecting the Spanish inquisition at all? > Personally . . . I wasn't expecting the Spanish inquisition at all? No, nobody does that ;) Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html A Dutch guy doing a Monty Python skit? Nah - you sound more like some of the American ex-pats I worked in The Netherlands... I guess you don't realise that 1) Sense of humour in NL is similar (drier, even) to UK (so even anyone moving there could easily become 'acclimatised). 2) Most people in NL pick up British TV, English is widely understood, so it would be no surprise to find an army of Monty Python aficionados who appreciate (or hate) it like the natives. And now for something completely different... DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- >A Dutch guy doing a Monty Python skit? Nah - you sound more like some of >the American ex-pats I worked in The Netherlands... >I guess you don't realise that > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>A Dutch guy doing a Monty Python skit? Nah - you sound more like some of >>the American ex-pats I worked in The Netherlands... Even more OT. . . Has anyone seen the 2-3 episodes of Monty Python done in German for German TV? Does the humour translate? John M in the forests of British Columbia According to my wife the humor doesn't even translate to English... :-) When I was kid and just started watching Monty Python, I used to watch the whole episode and think well that was sort of a lifeless outing. Then I would go to school and attempt to explain to a friend a small element of the show. It was in the explaining it to others that the absurdity of a 16 ton weight falling on a man's head or a soldier attacking his drill instructor with a banana came alive for me. I would laugh for about a half hour. That is what I still love about it. When I'm down or feeling dull, an image of 22 philosophers on a soccer pitch will come to me, and I can still burst out laughing, although I haven't seen the episode for twenty years. Baby, that's comedy. Just an aside, and speaking of wives, the wife of a friend of mine bought us three Monty Python films when I went to visit them in Spain just so she could watch us watch them. That amused the hell out of her even though she didn't like Monty Python herself. I really think that it is mostly in the retelling that the humor becomes evident; the sharing of it. It's a wonderful thing. What I want to know is when I am going to be given the comfy chair and a nice cup of tea. Fear and surprise are telling weapons! > Just an aside, and speaking of wives, the wife of a friend of mine > bought us three Monty Python films when I went to visit them in Spain [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > What I want to know is when I am going to be given the comfy chair and > a nice cup of tea. Fear and surprise are telling weapons! When people start expecting the Spanish Inquisition it kinda spoils the fun, don't you think? ;) Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html Hear hear. I first heard about the parrot sketch when two friends started telling me about it (they had seen it on TV). They were giggling furiously and could not stop laughing out loud. Only later did I see the sketch (and still thought it a scream). Of course some of the dialogue has passed into the language in Britain. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > I really think that > it is mostly in the retelling that the humor becomes evident; the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > a nice cup of tea. Fear and surprise are telling weapons! >[..] ... snip... >will come to me, and I can still burst out laughing, although I haven't >seen the episode for twenty years. Baby, that's comedy. no it isn't ... Why not? DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- > no it isn't ... I'll just take a wild guess and assume he didn't come here for an argument. > Why not? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >> no it isn't ... Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html A five-minute one or a ten-minute one? (You knew I would ask that...) DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- > I'll just take a wild guess and assume he didn't come here for an > argument. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Ximinez That isn't an argument. IT'S MERE CONTRADICTION! (and you knew that I would say THAT!) Hah. Amazingly: yes. One at least, decades ago. Pure coincidence. I was with friends in Germany. The TV was on and suddenly I noticed the Monty Python team. I remember an Albrecht Dürer theme. It was pretty funny, especially as the German was not great. I don't think the other people there thought the show that funny, but then I was the only one who wasn't new to the series. IIRC they were pilots for Germany but nothing came of it. Would not mind seeing them again DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > Even more OT. . . > Has anyone seen the 2-3 episodes of Monty Python done in German for German > TV? Does the humour translate? > > John M > in the forests of British Columbia >1) Sense of humour in NL is similar (drier, even) to UK That's cause laughing is free. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net >> 1) Sense of humour in NL is similar (drier, even) to UK > > That's cause laughing is free. Well, it's not as heavily taxed as driving a Mercedes, that's for sure... Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html The WR is the "all weather" tire that I am recommending... apparently they also have regular "all-season" tires in US... called I3... no idea about that... >Get Nokian tires... You can get their all season tire series... WR... > >Nokian has the only all season tire with extreme mud and snow rating... That >is because they designed the tire from a snow tire into an all season tire. > >I would recommend this to anyone who don't want to have a set of snow tires. Despite its other shortcomings the Canadian governent does do at least one good thing: they test snow tires God bless their little icy hearts. And of course the url to that page is the only thing in government that moves quickly: it hops around like a spring bunny with a double shot of testosterone. I keep track of it here and just changed it to the current list (again): http://articles.mbz.org/tire/ SignatureNeed Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net >I think I'm going to use the 2001's as spare wheels for both cars (just >have to check and see if they have the same tire size). Having four new [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >They're forecasting black ice today, so I really should be getting >winter tires as well... Yeah, they help a bit. The best tire for black ice is re-tire and stay home. Richard, posting from the black ice capital of the world. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net >> I think I'm going to use the 2001's as spare wheels for both cars (just >> have to check and see if they have the same tire size). Having four new [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > The best tire for black ice is re-tire and stay home. Well, for some reason forecasted black ice has a tendency not to turn up after all. Lucky, cause yesterday was one of those rare days I couldn't afford to stay home. Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html In addition to what the others have suggested I'd add engine coolant, automatic transmission fluid & filter, power steering filter element and have the brake fluid changed. With all the consumables changed these will be fine and reliable cars. > In addition to what the others have suggested I'd add engine coolant, > automatic transmission fluid & filter, power steering filter element and > have the brake fluid changed. > > With all the consumables changed these will be fine and reliable cars. Thanks, all. I'll make a list for my next checkup. Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html 7. T.G. Lambach Jan 24, 8:17 pm "power steering filter element " Never knew they had this. Does an 80 300SD have it? How do you change it? TIA PS pump filter is under the fluid in the pump's reservoir www.autohausaz.com PN 0004661604 $3.80 >7. T.G. Lambach > Jan 24, 8:17 pm [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Never knew they had this. Does an 80 300SD have it? How do you >change it? Open the power steering resovoir and there it is, bingo, like a coffee filter dort of thing. Cheap at the dealer. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net >I replaced all my tyres today and I just checked my GF's car: Two 1996, >one 2001 and one 1988 (!) tyre. The spare wheel was also a 2001. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I wonder if there are other points that should be checked extra on old >cars with very low mileage that spent most of their lives in the garage. Brake soft hoses. They're date stamped; anything older than 5 years should be replaced. Under the conditions your cars are being kept you are probably well advised to CHANGE the brake fluid once a year. The car is ten years old now, change all the rad and heater hoses on principle. Basically metal parts wear out when they're in use and moving or getting hot. Rubber ages and gets useless just sitting there; the mantran of any old MB enthusiast upon receipt sof a new car can only be "replace all the rubber". And if it's 30 years old "replace all the brake hydraulics". Rubber is only your friend when it's new. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net
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